Cats (2019) Mafia

[rari_teh]

i... don't get how my opinions only make sense from my pov?

fwiw i’d say that if there’s somebody here whose reads only make sense from their own pov that person is kyeugh tbh
her entire case on “rari is mafia” hangs on her claim that she was a one-shot necro who was blocked and the only person who could ever think of blocking her would be w!me
which, frankly

i think there's a pretty big difference here. maybe it's semantics, but the wagons here are me and you, and it's the job of everyone else to figure out what they think about that and why. people can only use the information they know and the feelings they have to reach those conclusions, but when you use information only you know, you can't reach a conclusion that's extensible to anyone else. that's the point i'm making. it's one thing to explain your reasoning for your own vote (logically sound), but another to to make a persuasive case to others based on information none of them have (logically fallacious), which is the distinction i'm trying to draw explicitly when i engage with his posts, because the lines can become blurred when you're not thinking about it too much. people can only use their own judgement, and trebek's self-clear (and any reasoning extending from it) should not factor into that judgement for anyone except himself. that's not the same as me offering my information, because the wagon is about me, and that information is necessary for everyone to consider their positions.

so you’re saying that the difference is that trebek did not vote?

not even close. ?_?

i legitimately do not understand what you’re saying the difference is tbh. idk whether i’m being thickskulled or you’re trying to gaslight me, but this is what i’m understanding of what you say:

• Trebek’s views hang on him being town. Trebek gives his views. Those should only work under his POV and be pretty much discarded.
• Your views hang on you being town. You give your views and lay down your vote. Those should be considered seriously by everybody, despite hanging on the fact that only you can confirm what you are alleging.

which, in my eyes, is a complete double standard.

 

[kyeugh]

those eyebrows really blend into the skin tone so it just looks like it’s frowning.

 

[kyeugh]

i... don't get how my opinions only make sense from my pov?

fwiw i’d say that if there’s somebody here whose reads only make sense from their own pov that person is kyeugh tbh
her entire case on “rari is mafia” hangs on her claim that she was a one-shot necro who was blocked and the only person who could ever think of blocking her would be w!me
which, frankly

i think there's a pretty big difference here. maybe it's semantics, but the wagons here are me and you, and it's the job of everyone else to figure out what they think about that and why. people can only use the information they know and the feelings they have to reach those conclusions, but when you use information only you know, you can't reach a conclusion that's extensible to anyone else. that's the point i'm making. it's one thing to explain your reasoning for your own vote (logically sound), but another to to make a persuasive case to others based on information none of them have (logically fallacious), which is the distinction i'm trying to draw explicitly when i engage with his posts, because the lines can become blurred when you're not thinking about it too much. people can only use their own judgement, and trebek's self-clear (and any reasoning extending from it) should not factor into that judgement for anyone except himself. that's not the same as me offering my information, because the wagon is about me, and that information is necessary for everyone to consider their positions.

so you’re saying that the difference is that trebek did not vote?

not even close. ?_?

i legitimately do not understand what you’re saying the difference is tbh. idk whether i’m being thickskulled or you’re trying to gaslight me, but this is what i’m understanding of what you say:

• Trebek’s views hang on him being town. Trebek gives his views. Those should only work under his POV and be pretty much discarded.
• Your views hang on you being town. You give your views and lay down your vote. Those should be considered seriously by everybody, despite hanging on the fact that only you can confirm what you are alleging.

which, in my eyes, is a complete double standard.

i really don’t want to talk about this anymore man. it’s not a double standard if you understanding what i’m actually saying but this is a pointless and really frustrating line of discussion. i promise i’m not gaslighting you though.

 

[kyeugh]

if butterfree/mp7 are actually mafia i’m going to rope.

 

[Trebek]

i would be highly interested in an external point of view on these interactions (and also the altercation at the beginning of yesterDay), because i think both sides feel like they're being gaslighted in one way or another

 

[rari_teh]

i would be highly interested in an external point of view on these interactions (and also the altercation at the beginning of yesterDay), because i think both sides feel like they're being gaslighted in one way or another

i definitely second this.

 

[qenya]

i would be highly interested in an external point of view on these interactions (and also the altercation at the beginning of yesterDay), because i think both sides feel like they're being gaslighted in one way or another

I mean I'm still here and reading in more or less real time but I'm just as torn as the rest of the peanut gallery

I can see and understand both Trebek's and kyeugh's reasoning for believing each other to be mafia, but unfortunately both are predicated on their own knowledge, which each of them could be lying about

for whichever of them is not mafia, I can totally see how that would feel really alienating! you know the other one is lying but you can't prove it, or prove that you're not lying yourself

but fuck if I know how to resolve it

 

[qenya]

I'm sorry, that was basically the least helpful reply imaginable, haha

 

[mewtini]

still can’t rly be here but in re: the skylar/trebek thing i think it’s kind of ??? to like ... drive home the point that non-trebek players can’t clear him just because he can/will clear himself. i don’t know if it’s more nuanced than that in reality but that is all i’ve managed to glean, and i don’t say that at all sarcastically

to which i will reply that i independently TR him and am not sheeping his self-clear, hahaha

 

[Trebek]

I'm sorry, that was basically the least helpful reply imaginable, haha

dont be sorry! im just glad other people are here :^)

 

[Trebek]

still can’t rly be here but in re: the skylar/trebek thing i think it’s kind of ??? to like ... drive home the point that non-trebek players can’t clear him just because he can/will clear himself. i don’t know if it’s more nuanced than that in reality but that is all i’ve managed to glean, and i don’t say that at all sarcastically

to which i will reply that i independently TR him and am not sheeping his self-clear, hahaha

i think this is what was stressing me out, but i didnt know how to articulate it. I obviously cant speak to skylar's mindset when talking about this but the way her posts came across really felt like they were just ignoring the fact that people can and have assembled independent reads of us

 

[kyeugh]

tbh i hate to be that guy but i’m going through it a bit right now and at this point this game is pretty much just a net stressor and doesn’t appear to be going anywhere soon, and the fact that i’m already not 100% is just compounding my anxiety about this game which just makes my posting worse which compounds my anxiety ad infinitum. i thought i was going to have the energy to advocate for myself for one last Day but it’s only been a few hours and i already don’t really feel like i have it in me anymore.

so i’m just gonna chalk this up to an L tbh, if we win at this point it’s obviously not going to be because of anything i say anyway. it was a lot of fun hanging out with y’all the first couple days! gl gl. this post is not intended to guilt anyone btw, and sincerely gj to the mafia whoever you are. it’s been fun, i just want to duck out because it’s beginning not to be and i’d rather quit while i’m ahead and focus on some other stuff rather than grow to resent this experience tbh. this is not a ragequit btw

 

[qenya]

oh, actually, maybe I do have something to add

when kyeugh et al were arguing yesterDay about whether she should attempt to resubmit her action, she said this:

speaking of which: [Jack] just replied that my power was indeed consumed, and suggested that there’s some precedent for that ruling in the game already. so uh. that is great tbh

at the time I was thinking that it seemed a bit odd for a oneshot role to be rendered completely ineffective by a single lucky choice from a roleblocker. I'll grant you it may just be differences in meta, but where at my home forum it's never been ruled to work that way because it really sucks for the person who got blocked. they had their one chance to shine and it got fucked up

but now that all the PRs are accounted for... what could that "precedent" possibly have been? given that kyeugh is the only person so far to claim a oneshot role of any sort?

I guess this is pretty weak but it's all I've got. I have been very clear all game that my reads are way worse than my mech game so idk I'm just trying to help where I can

 

[qenya]

christ, one hell of a thing to be ninja'd by

sorry kyeugh

 

[mewtini]

skylar ily queen :(

 

[Trebek]

oh, actually, maybe I do have something to add

when kyeugh et al were arguing yesterDay about whether she should attempt to resubmit her action, she said this:

speaking of which: [Jack] just replied that my power was indeed consumed, and suggested that there’s some precedent for that ruling in the game already. so uh. that is great tbh

at the time I was thinking that it seemed a bit odd for a oneshot role to be rendered completely ineffective by a single lucky choice from a roleblocker. I'll grant you it may just be differences in meta, but where at my home forum it's never been ruled to work that way because it really sucks for the person who got blocked. they had their one chance to shine and it got fucked up

but now that all the PRs are accounted for... what could that "precedent" possibly have been? given that kyeugh is the only person so far to claim a oneshot role of any sort?

I guess this is pretty weak but it's all I've got. I have been very clear all game that my reads are way worse than my mech game so idk I'm just trying to help where I can

my guess is that the precedent was more aimed at general mafia games, not this one in particular

 

[Butterfree]

I think what kyeugh is saying is that her presenting her opinion is obviously just her own POV because she's one of the wagons in question, while she wants to emphasize that anyone else's opinion may also be coming from a wolf?

Does anyone have a handy list of all the claims that have been made? I'm still inclined to think it's kyeugh since yesterday, especially with Keldeo being mafia, but I've yet to properly put together what I think the full team is.

 

[Butterfree]

Either way, sorry you're feeling that way, Skylar, I hope you feel better if you step away for a bit. :c

 

[mewtini]

Does anyone have a handy list of all the claims that have been made?

someone else might have a better list but here is mine from memory:

- mewtini (copclear + JoaT)
- kyeugh (old deuteronomy, one-shot necromancer)
- rari (munkustrap, neighborizer)
- butterfree (fishing brother)
- mp7 (fishing brother)
- bluwiikoon (cassandra, VT)
- mist (forgot the cat, VT)
- trebek (forgot the cat, VT)
- koko (maitre d', VT)

 

[mewtini]

oh forgot to add 'rolecopped' to bfree.