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Child Discipline
- Thread starter Phantom
- Start date
Flora
local hellion
- Pronoun
- they/he/it/neos
I got kinda scarred from my dad grabbing my shoulders because I have a low pain tolerance
Last time I checked that wasn't child abuse
(...that's also kinda not a great example oh no)
- Pronoun
- he/him
Why are you acting as if there were some clear-cut line between "child discipline" and "child abuse"? People react in different ways, and there is no way to predict ahead of time what those ways will be. If some form of child discipline damages the child, emotionally or physically, then it should not be used, even if it is perfectly harmless in a different case. Corporal punishment can be child abuse. Therefore it should not be permitted, period.
Flora
local hellion
- Pronoun
- they/he/it/neos
What, then, do you think of the fact that abused children sometimes/often grow up to become abusers themselves?
hopeandjoy
yan ya yan ya yaa iii yaaa
That's why my mom who spanked me and I am scared of when angry admits that sometimes she's a little too harsh and not very physical unlike me, often has good advice, cares about me, makes sure I'm happy and healthy, never says anything emotionally devastating to me on purpose, and hasn't put a hand on me since I was little.
Sounds real abusive.
Flora
local hellion
- Pronoun
- they/he/it/neos
Because it doesn't have to happen more than once for it to be scarring...
Flora
local hellion
- Pronoun
- they/he/it/neos
That doesn't mean it doesn't matter!
I have the same mom-problem as hopeandjoy; I'm terrified of her when she's angry, but when she's in a good mood she's one of the nicest people I know.
That doesn't mean that everything she says when she's angry is magically erased from memory and nasty comments don't hurt anymore.
- Pronoun
- he/him
So, let me ask, you would view exactly the same scenario - a parent hitting a child - as either discipline or abuse depending on the intent of the parent? What difference does the parent's intent make to the child? The child has no idea what the parent is thinking. To the child, both cases are the same.
Intent has nothing to do with it. Whether or not a parent is doing it in their child's best interests has no effect on whether or not corporal punishment is ultimately harmful. A parent could have the best intentions and their child might turn out scarred and terrified; or a parent could be the vilest person on Earth and their child might emerge unscathed. Nothing about good intent magically makes actions okay.
1. Corporal punishment can cause lasting harm to children.
2. There is no way to tell in which cases lasting harm will be caused.
Do you agree with these two points? If you do, unless you are willing to state that it's okay for some children to be harmed in the long term so long as it works with others, you must oppose corporal punishment.
for god's sake man stop assuming that you know how others feel based on what they say
both my parents are really nice and i love them to death but i'm scared shitless of my dad when he gets angry because he used to spank me and i'm terrified he's going to do it now even though he hasn't done it in years
i should not be scared shitless of my dad when he gets angry. worried maybe over what kind of punishment he might inflict but not SCARED SHITLESS
- Pronoun
- she/her
I didn't mean I should have been punished for that; I meant I was extremely rule-abiding and had very strong ideas about right and wrong as a kid (even earthworms have a right to life!), contrary to your assertion that punishment is the only way to instill these things into a kid.
By now you just seem to have decided to define discipline as harmless by saying that if it's not harmless it's some completely different unrelated thing called child abuse. Well, of course then you're going to be able to conclude that it's harmless, but that's because you're begging the question and incorporating the harmlessness property into the premise. "Disciplining children harmlessly is harmless" is a tautology - you're just shifting the problem onto how to make the distinction between disciplining harmlessly and harmfully. And as opal pointed out, that distinction isn't as obvious as you think it is. The world isn't black and white, consisting of good parents whose actions could never be harmful to their children and bad parents who are actively out to hurt them. People can hurt others irrevocably while still having the full faith that they're doing the right thing.
Cerberus87
Done.
CloudCat
It's a very, very mad world
I would never spank my children, but only because I don't have the guts to do so. But if you were only spanked a couple of times in your childhood, it would make perfect sense to be terrified of your parents afterwards. If you were spanked a lot as a child, you probably wouldn't be so scarred by it because you have had "experience". It's like when you ride a roller coaster for the first time, and you're terrified. But after you have ridden roller coasters multiple times, it's not a big deal. In my opinion, the line between discipline and abuse is similar to the 5th Amendment in the U.S. Constitution. The 5th Amendment states that
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation"
Basically, that means that you won't have excessive punishment for a crime. EXAMPLE) If you steal a candy bar, you won't be charged $5,000, just the amount of the candy. This relates to abuse and discipline because if a child only talks back to his/her parent, they do not need to be spanked multiple times. Only one or two light spanks, if a simple grounding isn't enough, will suffice. In my opinion, abuse is:
1) Spanking a child anywhere besides the buttocks
2) Spanking a child with anything other than the palm of the hand
3) Excessive spanking of a child (more than 7 spanks in one sitting)
4) Unnecessary spanks of a child
5) Excessive punishment for a small infraction
6) Spanking a chold older than 14
Appropriate discipline with spanks are:
1) Six or less spanks in one sitting (depending on the what the child did)
2) Spanks with the palm of the hand
3) Spanks on the buttocks
4) Spanks only used as punishment occasionally.
However, this is only my opinion.
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation"
Basically, that means that you won't have excessive punishment for a crime. EXAMPLE) If you steal a candy bar, you won't be charged $5,000, just the amount of the candy. This relates to abuse and discipline because if a child only talks back to his/her parent, they do not need to be spanked multiple times. Only one or two light spanks, if a simple grounding isn't enough, will suffice. In my opinion, abuse is:
1) Spanking a child anywhere besides the buttocks
2) Spanking a child with anything other than the palm of the hand
3) Excessive spanking of a child (more than 7 spanks in one sitting)
4) Unnecessary spanks of a child
5) Excessive punishment for a small infraction
6) Spanking a chold older than 14
Appropriate discipline with spanks are:
1) Six or less spanks in one sitting (depending on the what the child did)
2) Spanks with the palm of the hand
3) Spanks on the buttocks
4) Spanks only used as punishment occasionally.
However, this is only my opinion.
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... I understand you're 12. But there is so much incredibly wrong with this analogy that I am honestly too furious to write a coherent response right now.
kyeugh
onion witch
- Pronoun
- she/her
Ugh, how do I put this in words?
Child discipline, yes, is a last resort. That doesn't mean never do it. We have been doing this for as long as humankind has been around. Is there a nuclear holocaust? Is everyone dying a terrible death from one kid who got hurt as a child? No. It's not impacting our world, and if you're permanently scarred by it, then sorry. Maybe you're overreacting, because by the looks of it, most of you who never forget it have great parents who you can talk to! So get over it, no one's dying over this. It's not so terribly wrong to smack your kid every so often to set them straight! Not everything has to be painless in this world!
Child discipline, yes, is a last resort. That doesn't mean never do it. We have been doing this for as long as humankind has been around. Is there a nuclear holocaust? Is everyone dying a terrible death from one kid who got hurt as a child? No. It's not impacting our world, and if you're permanently scarred by it, then sorry. Maybe you're overreacting, because by the looks of it, most of you who never forget it have great parents who you can talk to! So get over it, no one's dying over this. It's not so terribly wrong to smack your kid every so often to set them straight! Not everything has to be painless in this world!
Minish
*
- Pronoun
- they
Wow. No, it's preeeetty creepy that the two main proponents here are both twelve. Your age has something to do with it because you're... really young?? I mean you have probably not talked to lots of adults who are still pretty messed up because of their childhoods? You still live at home where your parents probably influence your opinions a lot more...?
Mohacastle just ummm. To use your own argument, "no-one's dying from it" isn't a reason to do it???? Do you think things are only important and severe when people die? I just? Nobody's really dying right there on the spot because of littering, pushing kids off swings, theft, and 734903453 other things you'd be a bit of a jerk to do, should we do them, should people get over it? After all, people have been doing these things since as long as humankind has been around. (Or at least, as long as swings have been.)
(People do, incidentally, die from child discipline. Often. So...)
Mohacastle just ummm. To use your own argument, "no-one's dying from it" isn't a reason to do it???? Do you think things are only important and severe when people die? I just? Nobody's really dying right there on the spot because of littering, pushing kids off swings, theft, and 734903453 other things you'd be a bit of a jerk to do, should we do them, should people get over it? After all, people have been doing these things since as long as humankind has been around. (Or at least, as long as swings have been.)
(People do, incidentally, die from child discipline. Often. So...)