FF.net or AO3?

[Phantom]

Pretty simply put, do you prefer AO3 or ff.net? Or do you prefer another fanfiction site?

As both a reader and an author I prefer ff.net, mainly because I find it's easier to get readers on ff.net. AO3 is so small in comparison. Basically on AO3 if your fic is ANYTHING but Harry Potter, Supernatural, or the 'flavor of the month' you're not going to get read. I'm currently writing in the Elder Scrolls fandom. While it is a small fandom on ff.net there are still nearing 6K fics on the site, which means there are more readers. On AO3, at my last glance, there was barely over two hundred. I have one kudos on my main story on AO3, yet I have thousands of views and hundreds of favorites and reviews on ff.net, plus all my other stories are getting attention too.

That and when I joined AO3 I browsed a bit, and was appalled by the sheer amount of smut/MA fic. If it was a drinking game for a shot for how many MA fics I'd find on the first page of a fandom I'd be on the floor by the end of the first page of the first fandom I'd clicked. Nearly every fic in EVERY fandom seems to be smut. I get it. You MA writers were banned from ff.net, but still... The smut writing had a decent amount of kudos all, and yet the diamond in the rough non-smut fic would be largely ignored, leaving me to believe that the place is merely a hive of pervs looking to see some action with their favorite characters. On top of it the sheer thought of FILTERING such adult themes something to be laughed upon. It literally feels like the MA writers that were banned/had their stories removed from ff.net ran over there to do their own thing. My main fic, being non smut in nature and rather more of an attempt on an 'epic', seems to be the only non smut TES fic on the site, a bad beginning to what is a great and old fandom on the site.

 

[Tailsy]

I prefer AO3. Nicer, more customisable layout, easier to upload, and I really like the kudos system.

I don't personally see the problem with the large amount of Explicit/MA fic - it's what lots of people are interested in! I understand your frustration since I generally write gen fic, but it's not the MA fiction's ~~fault that gen fic doesn't get as much attention...

 

[Zero Moment]

AO3 all the way

 

[hopeandjoy]

I like AO3 better, but you can find more things on The Pit, even after you sort through the shit. But neither have new fics of my OTP *sobbu sobbu*

 

[Phantom]

I don't personally see the problem with the large amount of Explicit/MA fic - it's what lots of people are interested in! I understand your frustration since I generally write gen fic, but it's not the MA fiction's ~~fault that gen fic doesn't get as much attention...

It's the asexual in me.

It completely disgusts me. I don't judge, to each their own, but I can't stand MA/smut. Once per fic? Maybe, like in a gen fic that might have a couple scenes, fine, I'll live. But these harem/orgy/complete utter smut fics... I cringe. I mean I blush glancing at the summary of fics like those. And on AO3 the filtering is shit and I can't even seem to avoid them. And any fic I manage to find that is not MA is usually a deadfic.

 

[Negrek]

It really depends on the fandom and the kind of writing/reading you want to do. I write exclusively pokémon and exclusively OC gen, so AO3 isn't a great place for me--the pokémon section on AO3 is teensy compared to FFN and Serebii, and although I'd say the overall quality on FFN is generally worse, the sheer volume means there's plenty of interesting things floating around. From an author's standpoint, you might even get some reviews on FFN, whereas the AO3 pokémon section looks pretty well devoid of them. The AO3 archive has always struck me as being slow and clunky, and I hate hate hate the use of tags as a primary means of organization. (FFN's search/filter functions still don't measure up, but the tagging on AO3 seems like waaaaay more trouble than it's worth.)

But hey, I'm biased. FFN's been my home for years now. :P

 

[opaltiger]

The average quality on AO3 is so incredibly higher that I can pretty much forgive anything else.

 

[ultraviolet]

The average quality on AO3 is so incredibly higher that I can pretty much forgive anything else.

I have to agree! idk whether it's because AO3 is still pretty small or because a lot of them are MA writers from ff.net, but there seems to be more great stuff at AO3.

 

[Dannichu]

Yeah, I prefer AO3 because the tags system makes it much easier to filter through everything, and you're way more likely to read something of quality. I see exactly where you're coming from in terms of certain fandoms not getting any attention on AO3, especially older ones, but I personally prefer AO3 because it has more fics for the fandoms I'm interested in (my three faves shows are currently airing). Actually, for some of the fandoms I like, the (good) fanfiction used to be posted on Livejournal rather than FF.net, so I'm really grateful it's all being posted in one place because people's journals are a nightmare to navigate.

AO3 might have more smutfics, but at least the authors don't catergorise the sexual content by different citrus fruits.

 

[yiran]

If some people would say more than just a line "AO3 is better" it would be more helpful in understanding why it's more popular.

As a reader; neither. I don't have the patience to sift through junk. Instead I take requests from friends or go on fanfic recs and check the ones which have been recommended by more reputable people. On the other hand, listing fics from most favs/most alerts/whatever also seems okay, after I kill all the shipping fics. But if I had to choose, FFN. Why? Same as Phantom. I'm not even asexual and I find it eh.

This is a problem about fanfiction. Either they crack down on it or they completely condone it, when the middle road would probably lead to the best result available (ignoring people who read porn because... I don't want to read porn). For instance, FFN and Serebii just completely eat everything that is remotely sexually explicit while AO3 regurgitates them in too vast of a quantity and then everything explodes and we have too many ugly things to go through. Why can't we have somewhere where we can have sexually explicit things (not for titillation, but for things like psychoanalysis SHINJI ASUKA EOE ok) but they have to have a plot and not just random orgies for people to masturbate to? I mean, it's not wrong or anything, it's just I think there is a high enough demand of normal fiction to warrant such a thing.

As a writer FFN > AO3 because more sensible readers.

So, overall, I can see why people would prefer AO3 for reading fics (if the fics are really of higher quality which I have no evidence indicating either way) but recs is a more efficient way for me. But if you're not writing smut I don't see why you're going to AO3.

And yes, regardless of whether it is true or not, AO3 still seems like a place where people who are mad they got banned on FFN go to vent their sexual fanfics.

Also I'm pretty sure AO3 people use citrus fruit as much as FFN people. I don't think anyone has seen a large enough sample to judge.

OH AND ONE MORE THING THE AO3 POKEMON SECTION IS LIKE SPLIT INTO TEN MILLION PIECES LIKE WHAT IS GOING ON

 

[Minish]

I... don't really feel like AO3 is particularly more full of porn??

let's do stats! I grabbed the Harry Potter categories (which is not a fandom lacking in porn to begin with), and for AO3 it's about 6,000 of 38,000 for M and up (so, not even just porn). For FFN, about 118,000 of 620,000. and tbqh, when mine and my friends' lives were very FFN during high school, it very much felt like "explicit ships, and other stuff".

but even in that case, if you filter out porn, you're perfectly able to enjoy fanfiction. :V maybe since you don't like it, you just notice it more...? which isn't really about AO3. or maybe smaller fandoms tend to revolve around porn a bit more? idk AO3's main problem really is that there isn't much obscure stuff in general.

personally, FFN still has my heart even though I'm not into fic much these days. I remember when you had to fight to find good fic and that was all part of the grand fic experience. oh yes. they weren't good old days, but they were certainly... days. single tear

He forgot to mention the rating on his fic. Or what should have been the rating. I was gagging at the end of the first chapter. [clipped!]

uhhhhhhHH, this was all really unnecessary, Phantom. :/ I'm not sure why mentioning, like, the appearance of a smut fic writer you know particularly is relevant to your anti-smut case.

 

[Dannichu]

Also I'm pretty sure AO3 people use citrus fruit as much as FFN people. I don't think anyone has seen a large enough sample to judge.

Maybe that's true - like Cirrus, I think of FF.net as a thing from my teenagerdom, a time when my fandoms were mostly anime and games (also my standards were a lot lower). Nowadays I'm all about the TV, and it may be true that in Western fandoms, the word 'lemon' has been swapped for 'smut', I don't notice a total overabundance of written porn. I don't read that much fanfiction as a whole anymore, but that which I do read tends to be gen and femslash (and femslash does have sex scenes, but from what I can gather, it's usually an accompaniment to romance rather than for sex's own sake), and also I'm quite a bit older now, so I don't really notice sex as much.

 

[Minish]

One of the really cool things about the fic world lately is that femslash is an actual thing.

 

[Zero Moment]

One of the really cool things about the fic world lately is that femslash is an actual thing.

It wasn't a thing before?

 

[Butterfree]

Eh. I write way more than I read, so this is going to be more from the perspective of an author trying to upload things than a reader browsing around.

FanFiction.Net is awful because it is an awful website. Stripping out different characters at different times, ruining the formatting of existing chapters/titles? That goddamn stupid middle man of the "document manager" that serves no discernible purpose whatsoever other than making uploading annoying and until recently requiring you to make separate files for all your chapters? The way everything ever about the entire user experience is seemingly designed purposefully to be as annoying and arbitrarily inconvenient as possible? It is possibly the absolute worst designed website I use on a semi-regular basis. I want to grab whoever heads the design department and shake some sense into them.

AO3 is much better in that regard, but I personally rather dislike how obviously shipping-focused it is (though that's really just inherited from fandom at large). The idea of splitting fics into primary categories by the genders of the characters involved in the pairing, oh, and let's throw in a "gen" category for those weird few that actually aren't about a pairing, just irks me. Again, not AO3's fault because basically all of fandom is like that, but the way they make it official kind of makes me cringe.

Personally I've had basically no useful reviews from either place (well, some on FFN, but they're very few and far between while most FFN reviews offer no insight whatsoever). All in all, my main fanfiction hangout is Serebii and my own site; I only reluctantly bother with the archives at all.

I'm disappointed by the smut-shaming in this thread. If you don't want to read porn, then don't; there's no need to go call people who write/read it "pervs" or rant about how much it or smut authors disgust you.

 

[surskitty]

AO3's a lot easier to post at and I think people in my main fandoms atm check AO3 a lot more than they do FFN. Quality level's higher currently, too, since the writers tend to be older. It's also easier to find fic of a particular fandom on someone's works page than finding something on FFN. I honestly don't bother with FFN anymore.

Though really, the way to get readers in my main fandom (Gensou Suikoden) is to post on Tumblr or LJ a link to where to read it. :V And most people post on AO3, so ....

There's a tumblr savior sort of thing for AO3 if there's something you really don't want to see on the works list.

 

[Tailsy]

It wasn't a thing before?

Not unless you really wanted to read femslash written by straight dudes obsessed with nonsensical bra measurements or the phrase 'explored each other's bodies curiously'... (or ride through the snowy nights, snotters frozen in your sinuses, hoping for that twinkle of femslash on the horizon... could you reach it by morning light?)

 

[Zero Moment]

Not unless you really wanted to read femslash written by straight dudes obsessed with nonsensical bra measurements or the phrase 'explored each other's bodies curiously'... (or ride through the snowy nights, snotters frozen in your sinuses, hoping for that twinkle of femslash on the horizon... could you reach it by morning light?)

That's strange, I've read plenty of femslash on AO3 before. I suppose it depends on the fandom/website.

 

[Tailsy]

Well, AO3 wasn't really a thing until, what, 2008, 9? I've been in fandom since 2003, and lots of people long before that. It's changing *now*, but not so long ago barely anyone wrote femslash at all.

 

[Phoenixsong]

Eh. I don't read as often as I used to/would like to, but when I do I usually have stuff recced or go somewhere looking for a specific story or a specific author; I don't think I've even attempted to just browse FFN or AO3. At this point most of my interaction with either site is the scant number of authors or fics I've explicitly followed. Back when I did read more often or try browsing around it was on fandom-specific communities, usually TPM back when a bustling fanfic community was a thing there. I also get so little writing done that I have no experience posting to either place. So my opinion on the big two multifandom archives is an emphatic shrug of indifference.

To be fair, isn't it possible that the lack of a larger gen community (or Pokémon community, or Elder Scrolls community, or whatever community) on AO3 is sort of a catch-22 situation? As was said before it's hardly AO3's fault that shipping/porn is so popular there, aside from pandering to it with that silly pairing category thing. But I kinda feel like the reason you find so little gen (or whatever) there is because every gen author shows up, sees "oh no one's posting/reviewing gen here", doesn't bother posting or reviewing themselves and then leaves. And so on with everyone else who comes after. Of course no one's going to pay attention to whatever fandom/category/genre you're writing in if there's nothing for them to pay attention to!

Not that I'm suggesting we all grab our torches and pitchforks and storm AO3 screaming VIVA LA GEN REVOLUCION right now, but hey, if you want to see something there then you probably have to be part of putting it there to be seen, you know? If at some point in the future a group of Pokémon fans or whatever just said "eff it, we're all gonna go over together and interact with more Pokéfic", and maybe made an effort to draw attention to the fact that they were doing so, it might ultimately start attracting a bigger Pokémon crowd. Slowly, sure, but it'd do something. At least they could say they tried instead of just sitting there going "why isn't there anything I like? :("

Whenever I get around to actually finishing something (hahahahaha) I'll probably post it to both of those places just because why the hell not; it's not likely someone will see it or review it or kudos it or whatever, but if I don't put it there then it's guaranteed no one will. What'll it hurt to give it a shot, at least for a chapter or two? But I'll do it fully expecting more reader attention and interaction from someplace like Serebii. And honestly, especially if you're writing for an obscure/just-not-in-vogue-on-FFN/AO3 fandom, you're more likely to see successes if you seek out a community dedicated to that fandom anyway. (Also like Negrek I focus most of my writing attention on OC stuff, which seems like it attracts very little attention on AO3 or the LJ/DW comms and only a little more on FFN but is probably more popular than CC on Serebii. Again, though, if you want to see more OC stuff on AO3, part of the solution not the problem, etc., blah, etc..)