Forum Revival TV Tropes Mafia Revival - D7

[Ottercopter]

Whoops, never mind. '-'

 

[mewtini]

i don't really get why we're assuming vm got shielded? i keep seeing this tossed around and don't get it

oh i'm not assuming. just don't think it was impossible that it happened, but i also didn't think about it very hard and i appreciate your post ha

 

[kyeugh]

i think i'm misremembering how much this got brought up but rari keeps bringing up the shielding and eif keeps talking about a vig too and i feel like all the evidence points to these two things probably not existing (or, well, the vig not existing at least)
i mean i suppose it's possible the vig just did nothing n0 and then got blocked last night but idk what the point in tossing that idea around rn is tbh

 

[rari_teh]

i don't really get why we're assuming vm got shielded? i keep seeing this tossed around and don't get it

like in order for that to be true we have to make all of these assumptions:
- there are two killers (i.e. a mafia and a vig)
- there is a shielder of some kind
- the mafia targetted vm
- the shielder protected vm
- the vig targeted boq fsr
- also, the vig was either inactive n0 or the shielder happened to guess a target correctly that night too
for another thing i don't really understand what a "shielder" is supposed to be—to me it sounds identical to a doctor, which i don't think is what you're talking about here, or else a bodyguard, which would have died when they took the shot for vm

this is all vs the more obvious conclusion of
- there is no vig
- the mafia targeted boq last night fsr

We agree for once

 

[rari_teh]

I was an inspector in my first game, and a townie looked like mafia and a terrorist showed up as town. Bleh.

Terrorists show up as town AFAIK, but @.experienced players, is there a common-ish town role that flips mafia? o_O

 

[kyeugh]

miller

 

[kyeugh]

i'm still not 100% convinced we have an alignment cop tbh

 

[rari_teh]

miller

Big yikes

i'm still not 100% convinced we have an alignment cop tbh

What makes you think that?

 

[mewtini]

i'm still not 100% convinced we have an alignment cop tbh

i'm still writing my thing but i have some reasons to believe that eifie is actually a legit cop (also rari has hypocopped and mentioned their read once in early thread and again recently, and their read coincides with eifie's mr. ultracool green)

 

[kyeugh]

awaiting longpost before engaging w that tbh

 

[kyeugh]

What makes you think that?

nothing in particular i guess, it just seems like the roles we know of so far have either had some wacky drawback or been based on trope rather than up front knowledge

 

[Mawile]

nothing in particular i guess, it just seems like the roles we know of so far have either had some wacky drawback or been based on trope rather than up front knowledge

Eifie did mention not being able to choose her targets. What roles are you thinking of that have a wacky drawback?

 

[mewtini]

lmfao i totally just deleted the two paragraphs i'd written so here we go again

i didn't think anything of negrek during d1 and i believe her roleclaim as i said above; it's kind of stupid to fake and wouldn't have done anything positively for her if she were non-green. she also did give us a role for d2 and i credit her with an early post where she actually volunteered info about tvt mafia #1 to give seshas some credibility; she did pretty well when she was around early game to play the mediation game, i think, which does make me autotrust people more

however i feel like incredibly weird about her EoD. her big long post in 1186 was really, like, kind of all over the place i thought (and someone else, i think keldeo, called it a 'throwaway read' a bit later - this was why i asked keldeo directly what he thought about neg. kel if it wasn't you i'm sorry for the misfired q).

At this point I would certainly like to hear more out of ILS, but he wouldn't be my first lynch target. He (and Stryke, and Ottercopter) have at least shown an interest in engaging with what's going on, while I agree there isn't much value in voting out Odi_Pie. So, with that in mind, I think my vote is actually RedNeckPhoenix, since as far as I'm aware he hasn't shown up to except to comment a couple of times on how fast the game is moving. I would hope to see more out of ILS, Stryke, and Ottercopter in the future, but I don't actually see any of them as particularly mafia at this point, and if they're actually going to play then we'll learn more about them anyhow; if not, then they will make easy lynch targets if there's no more obvious target later on.

this didn't make a ton of sense to me (her logic about RNP versus odie was like ... a hybrid of my logic about RNP/ILS lynch > odie, except that she was against odie and ILS?). also she then literally said

As far as I can see, the only posts where he's accused anyone of anything are one where he said he was getting "kinda not great vibes from" rari_teh and one where he was "a little suspicious of VM." The VM one in particular I'm not sure what he's getting at, but these don't really seem like "callouts" to me? Or much of a pattern? Posting vague things like this and then poofing is maybe a little like the mafia putting out feelers, but if actually mafia I feel like he wouldn't have just vanished after that last VM post once it became clear he'd drawn unwelcome attention with it.

The point about an RNP lynch not giving much information is fair; I'd kind of been thinking of all inactive lynches being pretty much equal here, but what would ILS' alignment tell us?

(i also will note that the "kinda not great vibes" quote is not what i considered the most important part of the ILS post that i had been trying to figure things out from, and at the time i felt a little like neg was cherrypicking. that being said i fucked up and ILS clearly wasn't even mafia so that's a huge feelsbad)

anyway and then kyeugh's reply to it validated me a bit in feeling that it was a contradictory post and also exactly sums up what i felt when i read it (also note that kyeugh wasn't even on board with the ILS wagon that i believed in at the time)

i feel like this wasnt your intention but this post is communicating to me that an rnp vote and an ils one aren’t really that different in terms of information yield, and you concede that ils has done things that could be regarded as mildly suspicious even if you don’t think it’s damning whereas rnp is basically just null

and neg then directly said

No, that's accurate. If lynching either is equivalent in terms of information gained, I'd rather go for the person who doesn't appear to have any interest in playing. If an ILS lynch would give us more information, that's the better choice.
I will admit that I'm also reluctant to go for an ILS lynch because I truly don't understand why mewtini's so adamant about it.

italics felt like a retcon imo

basically the tldr as of now is that i thought negrek was putting undue effort into defending ILS, and this was honestly why i stayed the course with ILS and didn't switch to otter during this part of EoD. however, negrek then issued a post that i now kind of view as an attempt to appease ... someone? me? idk:

Sorry if that ["idk why mewtini's so adamant about it from above quote"] came across as dismissive. I understand your rationale, it just doesn't seem like such a big deal to me.

But I will change my vote to ILiekSquirtles.

also, idk if this helps/which of my Dear Readers rn are trusting keldeo, but he had voted ILS with me before this negrek convo went down. when he voted ottercopter, it was just after this post (leading me to believe that maybe he, like me, thought negrek was suspiciously defending ILS) and iirc that's what prompted the mass exodus to the otter wagon.

*** another thing that i didn't feel like putting here via quotes is that negrek was weirdly insistent on the qva/kyeugh tell, even after boq (rip) said that it felt suspicious for the derailing value it had, and i can't help but feel bad about it. also i see the point that eifie made, which was that manually searching the thread for "qva"'s first appearance seemed worthy of giving negrek Effort Points, but i also think that that mechanical effort is mentally low effort and one that would have benefitted unsavory!neg

 

[mewtini]

uh ok i didnt know how long that was. this sounds fake now that i realize exactly how longposty that was but i'm not really scumreading negrek yet, either, but i guess maybe she is the closest i have to such a read

 

[kyeugh]

mostly just the doctors, which i assume kill their targets when/if they clash
but also a lot of the roles have drawbacks in the sense that they're just passive even when they're informational, like negrek's/vm's/the MIs

 

[mewtini]

however, negrek then issued a post that i now kind of view as an attempt to appease ... someone? me? idk:

i meant to emphasize that i really expected to have to fight a bit more to convince her, and it felt like maybe she just realized she was in the minority or something at this point and wanted to back out of it as well as she could

 

[kyeugh]

also, idk if this helps/which of my Dear Readers rn are trusting keldeo, but he had voted ILS with me before this negrek convo went down. when he voted ottercopter, it was just after this post (leading me to believe that maybe he, like me, thought negrek was suspiciously defending ILS) and iirc that's what prompted the mass exodus to the otter wagon.

eh i think this was bc he wanted to keep the wagons even tbh

*** another thing that i didn't feel like putting here via quotes is that negrek was weirdly insistent on the qva/kyeugh tell, even after boq (rip) said that it felt suspicious for the derailing value it had, and i can't help but feel bad about it. also i see the point that eifie made, which was that manually searching the thread for "qva"'s first appearance seemed worthy of giving negrek Effort Points, but i also think that that mechanical effort is mentally low effort and one that would have benefitted unsavory!neg

and i'm pretty sure this was bc me and eifie kept talking about it, haha

the rest of the post is something, tbh, although i feel like the fact that ils indeed turned out to be a doctor kind of nullifies a lot of it? idk. negrek clearly wasn't defending a scummate so idk how their defense of him really implicates them exactly even if it did appear undue

 

[mewtini]

eh i think this was bc he wanted to keep the wagons even tbh

i thought that too when i was writing but keldeo's "I'm vibing. <ILS vote>" to "I am no longer vibing <opposite wagon vote>" makes me unsure?

idk. negrek clearly wasn't defending a scummate so idk how their defense of him really implicates them exactly even if it did appear undue

i'm not super concerned with whether neg was actually defending a scummate or not, it was that it seemed kind of like walls of text that existed to stall actual spec and weren't very infopacked either. i also am disadvantaged by not knowing neg's playstyle, it just seemed like somewhat erratic behavior

 

[mewtini]

honestly i might just be salty still and i understand what you're saying. i just feel weird vibes. that is all

 

[kyeugh]

i absolutely do not know negrek's playstyle either so input from someone who does would be good
(relatedly, rip to all the people who wake up to like four pages of just three people talking lol.)
it's true that their posts weren't really info-packed but i'd argue that it's bc their position wasn't really coming from a place of reasoning, but rather wanting to keep players in who intended on actually playing the game, and lynching players who didn't. so they weren't really trying to convince you of a logical case against rnp/for ils so much as getting you to understand their viewpoint about what kind of person ought to be lynched ig?
i could be wrong but i feel like during that debate you were placing a vote based on an actual read and they were placing theirs based on principle
and if that's true then by nature they're not really going to be info-packed since they're kind of just editorial
ultimately i think a useful way to come at it is, like... assume negrek has shifty motivations, then try and work out whether their actions make sense under that pretense. i don't really think they do