Gaza

[Lorem Ipsum]

Weren't there a couple of war crimes committed? You know, the one where a UN aid truck driver got killed by a rocket, and the two boys being killed in that school?

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

I don't know is genocide a war crime.

 

[OLD ACCOUNT]

Typically I try to ignore these things, but, eh.

That's one thing that makes me seethe: Israel comitting genocide. Fucking ironic. They seriously want to wipe Palestine (or what remains of it) off the map and they won't stop until the last Palestinian is dead. I guess starving them was taking too long.

I find this so ironic. In a really sad way. It's not as if Palestinians have been trying to kill us for the past... uh... forever? Yeah, no big deal. We're just killing them because we're bitchy.

To be honest, though, what gets me is how you guys are acting... as if this was completely one-sided. That's what disgusts me.

Let's see: Palestine has been bombing us for, let's say forever. Yes, their bombs are shitty, but they do hit people. And suicide bombings aren't nearly as inaccurate.
Statistically, death by bombings aren't common, no - but that's because the Israeli government does protect us. There are guards everywhere, at the grocery store and toy stores for god's sake. You can't go anywhere without your bags being checked.

I'm trying to understand, also, why the fact that the Palestinians' bombs generally don't kill many people makes it okay that they try to kill people. I mean, if I aimed a gun at someone and tried to shoot them but missed, would that make it okay that I tried to kill them? Obviously they're not dead, but my intent was still there. And the fact that I still want to kill them means I won't stop trying to shoot them. So, even if my aim sucks, I have a lot of bullets. (End metaphor.)

Also - Palestine is bigger than Israel. So don't go saying that it's a tiny 'country'. Israel is smaller. There's no goddamn reason for the Palestinians to want our land; when we took it, it was just as ... well, gross, as Palestine is now. They simply didn't do anything with the land. We did.

And don't act as if it's no big deal that Palestine places its military bases in the middle of civilians' locations. They do this because they want sympathy, so they can show how Israel is supposedly aiming at civilians and show off the dead bodies, something Israel never does. So, Palestine is in fact risking their civilians for sympathy. And it's working.

That said, I don't support this war. War, in general, is stupid. But I really, really hate when people think everything is one-sided. (Also, Vladimir Putin's LJ, saying "fuck off and die israel fff" is anti-semetic.) End rant.

 

[opaltiger]

To be honest, though, what gets me is how you guys are acting... as if this was completely one-sided. That's what disgusts me.

I'm not saying that Hamas is doing the right thing by firing rockets at Israel

I do not in any way endorse Israel's action in this war; I find it rather disgusting, in fact, and I can't say I'm supportive of either side.

Hamas is not innocent, Israeli government is not innocent, only civilians are.

I personally think Hamas, while not being right, is justified in attacking Israel. I mean, when they respect the cease-fire Israel blocks any resources from going to Palestine and when they break the cease-fire they get killed en masse. But at least they get international attention from the latter, while everyone ignores the former for no good reason.
I agree they shouldn't set up their bases in places like that, because it does endanger civillians. Then again said civillians will probably die because of Israel.

I don't support Hamas but Jesus fucking Christ Israel, what are you doing?

EDIT: obviously i'm not saying hamas is great or anything but i feel more sympathy for them than for IDF or Israel

Clearly we think this is completely one-sided, yup. All we're saying is that Israel's response was completely disproportionate.

Also - Palestine is bigger than Israel. So don't go saying that it's a tiny 'country'. Israel is smaller.

not... really?

 

[EvilCrazyMonkey]

(Also, Vladimir Putin's LJ, saying "fuck off and die israel fff" is anti-semetic.)

no, it's not
saying "fuck off and die jews fff" is anti-semitic

 

[OLD ACCOUNT]

Considering what happened to the jews when we didn't live in Israel, it's technically the same thing.

 

[EvilCrazyMonkey]

Considering what happened to the jews when we didn't live in Israel, it's technically the same thing.

No, it's not.
Being against a country's actions does not mean you hate and want to kill every civilian within that country. Nor does it mean you hate and want to kill everyone that shares a religion with them.

What the hell

 

[OLD ACCOUNT]

Mmm, it sort of is when you say die. You know, considering die means death. They're like, the same thing.

See, if you say 'you suck israel' or something of the sort, that's one thing. If you say die, then that means you want Israel to... I don't know... die. And since Israel is a country and technically can't die, the natural assumption would be that when one says 'die israel', one means that the people inside Israel should die.

It's not that long a stretch.

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

Okay my computer shut down by itself after I'd spent thirty minutes on a huge-ass reply. I'm going to try and be as accurate as possible in repeating what I said.

I find this so ironic. In a really sad way. It's not as if Palestinians have been trying to kill us for the past... uh... forever? Yeah, no big deal. We're just killing them because we're bitchy.

Hey great, thanks for the link of Jihad Watch when we're talking about Palestinians! Shall I link you to this whenever I want to make a point about Jewish people?
And guess why most of the middle east hates America and Israel. I mean, America's pretty damn easy to see. Occupation, senseless murder of tens of thousands of civilians in a period of five to ten years, playing world police.
And Israel? Yes, why would Palestine dislike you? I don't know. Occupation, genocide, blocking food, water, gas and medicine. You sound like charmers!

To be honest, though, what gets me is how you guys are acting... as if this was completely one-sided. That's what disgusts me.

I sure remember my 'God, Hamas is so awesome and everything they do it great' post!
The fact is, Israel is doing a lot more than Palestine is (and could ever do). Have you even deigned to glance at the numbers?
Israel holds over ten thousand Palestinians hostage. Palestine holds one Israeli.
Israel has fighter planes and nuclear warheads. Palestine has no weapons and their fighter groups have to make their own.
Israel killed over one thousand Palestinians in about twenty days. Palestine killed thirteen Israelis.
Israel steals Palestinian land, sets up illegal settlements in Palestine and has installed a curfew in some areas of Palestine. Palestine has done nothing of the sort.

Let's see: Palestine has been bombing us for, let's say forever.

Because you oppress them and steal their land. Them firing rockets at you isn't right, but fuck if it's a lot more defensible than what you do.
And it isn’t Palestine firing stuff at you, it's Hamas.

Yes, their bombs are shitty, but they do hit people. And suicide bombings aren't nearly as inaccurate.

An Israeli has more chances of dying by falling down the stairs than by getting hit by a Hamas rocket.
Suicide bombings have been close to nil ever since Israel built the wall.

I'm trying to understand, also, why the fact that the Palestinians' bombs generally don't kill many people makes it okay that they try to kill people.

I never said Hamas was doing the right thing. I specifically stated in the first post that I didn't.

I mean, if I aimed a gun at someone and tried to shoot them but missed, would that make it okay that I tried to kill them? Obviously they're not dead, but my intent was still there. And the fact that I still want to kill them means I won't stop trying to shoot them. So, even if my aim sucks, I have a lot of bullets. (End metaphor.)

Okay, let me use your metaphor then:
Palestine (Hamas, really, but since you like pretending everyone in Palestine is a crazy terrorist I'll make you happy) aims a gun at Israel (because Israel has kept Palestine locked in the basement for the past fifty years) and tries to shoot them but misses. Obviously Israel's not dead, but Palestine's intent was still there. And the fact that Palestine still want to kill them means Palestine won't stop trying to shoot Israel. So, even if their aim sucks, they have a lot of bullets.
Then Israel tazers Palestine, pulls out an Uzi and shoots his wife and children, sets fire to the basement and forces Palestine back inside. All with nice, clean American equipment! (oh, I can hear the mailman slipping that nice fat pocket money envelope in the mailbox!)

Also - Palestine is bigger than Israel. So don't go saying that it's a tiny 'country'. Israel is smaller.

There's no goddamn reason for the Palestinians to want our land; when we took it, it was just as ... well, gross, as Palestine is now. They simply didn't do anything with the land. We did.

Your land!
Maybe they didn't do anything to the bit of the land they're in now because it's fucking impossible to make anything grow there.

And don't act as if it's no big deal that Palestine places its military bases in the middle of civilians' locations. They do this because they want sympathy, so they can show how Israel is supposedly aiming at civilians and show off the dead bodies, something Israel never does. So, Palestine is in fact risking their civilians for sympathy. And it's working.

What Ruby said was completely accurate. If you know a criminal is hiding in a crowd, you don't shoot through the crowd to try to hit said criminal. Hamas also has one base in a hospital, the rest of the supposed military bases are where they put their own families.
Also, even if Israel didn't bomb the city indiscriminately, they'd still be starving Palestine and preventing medicine and gas from entering the country. How do you defend that? Christ, Israel even blocked news from getting into Gaza to see how horrible it really was.

(Also, Vladimir Putin's LJ, saying "fuck off and die israel fff" is anti-semetic.)

Oh, you've done it now.
You can call me any name you like. Bastard, bitch, whore, douchebag, whatever, I'll probably agree. But if you say I'm racist one more time I'll hunt you down and crack your skull open.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong! Maybe I missed my own posts! Hmmm, ah! What about my 'I hope every last kike is slayed by the righteous fist of god' post? Nope, can't seem to find it!
'I wish death upon every last Hebrew demon'? Oh dear, where is it?
'I wish Hitler had finished the job'? Oh, come on!
'Fucking money-hungry hook-nosed yip bastards'? Awww.

I find Judaism very interesting. Every Jewish person I know personally is irreproachable. Every Jewish person I know personally is against Israel. And yes, as strange as it may seem, almost every Jewish person I know does, in fact, go to the synagogue regularly, and none of them are self-hating. Wow, maybe they're just sensible people!

Considering what happened to the jews when we didn't live in Israel, it's technically the same thing.

Absolute horseshit.
You, as a Jew, should know better than I what Nazi Germany did. Let me refresh your mind: they rounded up people who were already in their country (except it actually, you know, was their country and not someone else's), forced them into ghettos, blocked food, water and medical services from entering said ghettos and eventually those ghettos became camps where they practiced the Final Solution.
Why why why, most of that sounds familiar!

Mmm, it sort of is when you say die. You know, considering die means death. They're like, the same thing.

See, if you say 'you suck israel' or something of the sort, that's one thing. If you say die, then that means you want Israel to... I don't know... die. And since Israel is a country and technically can't die, the natural assumption would be that when one says 'die israel', one means that the people inside Israel should die.

It's not that long a stretch.

Are you kidding me. Do you just take everything at face value or what.

Also Palestine and Hamas are not the same thing. One doesn't mean the other. Please stop confusing the two because it's kind of irritating.

 

[GameFreakerZero]

It's not as if Palestinians have been trying to kill us for the past... uh... forever?

You mean since the country became an international game of pass the parcel after Britain went and took over the country some eighty or so years ago, deceiving the Palestinians by supporting their revolution against their previous rulers and then claiming the country theirs?

I'm not really up to date enough on what's currently going on there, but I think it's worth taking into consideration that Israel was originally formed by the UN taking half of Palestine and giving it to the Jews.

 

[J.T.]

oh yay israel can go back to starving palestine in peace <3

oh

well fuck

 

[surskitty]

Every side there is majorly screwed up, but um

why is Hamas poking Israel with a stick and trying to hide behind civilians when they know that Israel will BOMB THEM ALL
If they're going to beat the shit out of you disproportionately if you try anything, then it's probably a good idea to try not to antagonize them.

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

Because there's nothing else they can do. If they don't rocket Israel, nothing happens, if they do, they get worldwide attention and a better shot at something happening (hopefully this 'something' is kicking Israel in the teeth and giving Palestine at least half of their stolen land back).
And they don't 'hide behind civillians'. Israel's the one who bombs everyone regardless of guilt.

 

[Tarvos]

Whivit, I do not support any side or race or ethnic cleansing or whatever the fuck. All I see is people aiming guns at each other for nation, glory and other such falsehoods, and all I witness is the news at 8 PM reporting "x wounded y dead". All I hear or see is bloodshed in the name of nothing. That is what I think when I see war. That is what I hear when I try to imagine the sounds of rockets being launched.

I, and nor is VPLJ, or anyone here, advocating antisemitism in ANY way. None at all. We disapprove of the actions of the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. THE GOVERNMENT. THE PEOPLE THAT CALL THE SHOTS. THEY RULE THE COUNTRY AND SEND THE SOLDIERS OUT. I have an amazing amount of sympathy for the families that have to send their young boys out to war into the Army to die in the minefields and battlegrounds of Gaza. I don't mind any civilian of Israel; why would I? They are people, and deserve the same right to life as I do.

What I, and VPLJ, and many others with us, disapprove of, is the fact that Israel is waving a nationalist Jewish flag and holding up antisemitism as a carte blanch to commit some bloody heinous crimes. Never, ever, do I want to see religion and ethnicity be the causes of such bloodshed. No religion or nature or different culture is, EVER, an excuse to pick up a gun and start the fight.

Of course what Hamas is doing is poking a stick in a beehive. Of course, Hamas is not justified in firing rockets in Israel. I have no good words for Hamas deliberately endangering and letting innocent Palestinian civilians be slaughtered. That is of course terrible enough in itself. But to commit such a radical invasion and almost exterminate and wipe the very soil clean of Palestinian people, can't you see that that is pure madness? Can't you see how familiar it is to what Germany did in WWII? Can't you see how similar it is to every ethnic cleansing ever? To Apartheid? To religious and cultural struggles everywhere?

To act like Israel is in any way justified in waging this war is to blatantly wear blindfolds to atrocity and bloodshed. I, for one, will not wear these glasses. And I hope you're bright enough to see that this complete idiocy in the Middle East (and let me extend this to the heinous situations elsewhere, such as the Caucasus, Sudan, Nigeria, and oh, everywhere where there has ever been war, Kosovo maybe) is something that we should all agree on that every involved party is guilty.

This is a political battle between Hamas and Israel. Let them for once have diplomacy settle the debate and calm the irascible tempers of the governmental fuckheads that rule Israel (or for that matter, the dunderheads of Hamas for deliberately provoking Israel). But for the sake of every last innocent civilian involved, let this end, because I am absolutely disgusted by the attitude of everyone involved. Not in the least Israel, that as a once persecuted culture (from the Bible onwards: remember Exodus?), should know what it's like to be continously on the run and afraid. It is not even unjustifiable, it is deeply hypocritical of Israel to wave their nationalist flag for this.

Don't, just don't.

 

[OLD ACCOUNT]

Whooboy.

And guess why most of the middle east hates America and Israel. I mean, America's pretty damn easy to see. Occupation, senseless murder of tens of thousands of civilians in a period of five to ten years, playing world police.
And Israel? Yes, why would Palestine dislike you? I don't know. Occupation, genocide, blocking food, water, gas and medicine. You sound like charmers!

The reason doesn't matter, honestly. The fact is they hate us. We hate them. Blablabla enough hate to last forever. So what if it's justified (on either side)? It all rings of a Freudian excuse.

I sure remember my 'God, Hamas is so awesome and everything they do it great' post!

I'm rather sure you haven't said Hamas is great, but you haven't exactly been wishing them dead, either. So while it's your opinion that Israel should die, Hamas is apparently fine.

Because you oppress them and steal their land. Them firing rockets at you isn't right, but fuck if it's a lot more defensible than what you do.
And it isn’t Palestine firing stuff at you, it's Hamas.

Technically it's not their land anymore. It was given to us by the UN. Sooo.

An Israeli has more chances of dying by falling down the stairs than by getting hit by a Hamas rocket.
Suicide bombings have been close to nil ever since Israel built the wall.

I already know how rare these things are, I live here.

Okay, let me use your metaphor then:
Palestine (Hamas, really, but since you like pretending everyone in Palestine is a crazy terrorist I'll make you happy) aims a gun at Israel (because Israel has kept Palestine locked in the basement for the past fifty years) and tries to shoot them but misses. Obviously Israel's not dead, but Palestine's intent was still there. And the fact that Palestine still want to kill them means Palestine won't stop trying to shoot Israel. So, even if their aim sucks, they have a lot of bullets.
Then Israel tazers Palestine, pulls out an Uzi and shoots his wife and children, sets fire to the basement and forces Palestine back inside. All with nice, clean American equipment! (oh, I can hear the mailman slipping that nice fat pocket money envelope in the mailbox!)

I'm not pretending every Palestinian is a terrorist (though I could turn that around on you about Israel). I'm trying to explain that there are two sides to this.
Now, I'm not completely sure about this, but don't the Palestinians have the option of leaving?

And I'm sorry - I was incorrect about Palestine's location (unsure as to how I made that mistake, really).

Your land!
Maybe they didn't do anything to the bit of the land they're in now because it's fucking impossible to make anything grow there.

Uh, yes, we were given the land by the UN. And I highly doubt it's impossible to make anything grow there; there are plants that can grow anywhere. Just need to find the right things to plant.

What Ruby said was completely accurate. If you know a criminal is hiding in a crowd, you don't shoot through the crowd to try to hit said criminal. Hamas also has one base in a hospital, the rest of the supposed military bases are where they put their own families.
Also, even if Israel didn't bomb the city indiscriminately, they'd still be starving Palestine and preventing medicine and gas from entering the country. How do you defend that? Christ, Israel even blocked news from getting into Gaza to see how horrible it really was.

You do if they're shooting at you. Or would you just ... let yourself get shot?

I'm sorry, I don't recall defending Israel's actions. Perhaps I did that without noticing?

Oh, you've done it now.
You can call me any name you like. Bastard, bitch, whore, douchebag, whatever, I'll probably agree. But if you say I'm racist one more time I'll hunt you down and crack your skull open.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong! Maybe I missed my own posts! Hmmm, ah! What about my 'I hope every last kike is slayed by the righteous fist of god' post? Nope, can't seem to find it!
'I wish death upon every last Hebrew demon'? Oh dear, where is it?
'I wish Hitler had finished the job'? Oh, come on!
'Fucking money-hungry hook-nosed yip bastards'? Awww.

Last I checked, saying that an action is anti-semetic =/= calling a person anti-semetic. Nice overreaction, though. (Also, I invite you to try hunting me down. It should provide some amusement...)

Also, just because it annoys me, if someone is anti-semetic it doesn't mean they're a bigot about everything. That's... just... wtf. I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

I find Judaism very interesting. Every Jewish person I know personally is irreproachable. Every Jewish person I know personally is against Israel. And yes, as strange as it may seem, almost every Jewish person I know does, in fact, go to the synagogue regularly, and none of them are self-hating. Wow, maybe they're just sensible people!

Seems to me you don't know that many Jews. >>;

Absolute horseshit.
You, as a Jew, should know better than I what Nazi Germany did. Let me refresh your mind: they rounded up people who were already in their country (except it actually, you know, was their country and not someone else's), forced them into ghettos, blocked food, water and medical services from entering said ghettos and eventually those ghettos became camps where they practiced the Final Solution.
Why why why, most of that sounds familiar!

Thanks, I was unsure.

Are you kidding me. Do you just take everything at face value or what.

Yes, I do. Strange, how when someone says something should die, I take from that that they said they should die.

Also Palestine and Hamas are not the same thing. One doesn't mean the other. Please stop confusing the two because it's kind of irritating.

Sure.

I want to clarify that I'm not justifying Israel's actions. I thought I made that rather clear in my first post, but apparently I didn't. So I'll say it now. It just gets repetitive - war sucks, bla bla. I didn't expect people to see my trying to show another side to this as my attempt at defending Israel. Whatever.

 

[GameFreakerZero]

Technically it's not their land anymore. It was given to us by the UN. Sooo.

Uh, yes, we were given the land by the UN.

Um yeah, and the UN were given the land by the British when their mandate ran out, who got the land by essentially stealing it off the Palestinians.

Also they weren't given all that land. The original amount of land that was Israel was about half of Palestine, and it was a hell of a lot smaller than opal's example of the current map. The rest Israel got when they were victorious in wars against Palestine and its neighbours.

 

[OLD ACCOUNT]

Okay, so we got it from the UN and from wars. ... You guys are really anal.

 

[Tarvos]

THE POINT IS: ISRAEL DIDN'T CLAIM IT LEGITIMATELY! THAT IS VERY FUCKING IMPORTANT TO THE WHOLE STORY

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

The reason doesn't matter, honestly. The fact is they hate us. We hate them. Blablabla enough hate to last forever. So what if it's justified (on either side)? It all rings of a Freudian excuse.

Oh yeah Palestine is just like a fake villain in a subpar movie. Christ.

I'm rather sure you haven't said Hamas is great, but you haven't exactly been wishing them dead, either. So while it's your opinion that Israel should die, Hamas is apparently fine.

The world would be better if Israel had a) been done properly or b) never been created. 'fuck off and die israel' doesn't mean I literally want everyone in Israel to die for fuck's sake. I don't support the wiping out of a large group of people. Unlike Israel.
And I like that: either I support Hamas or I wish them dead. I don't either. Gasp!
Them resisting Israeli occupation is perfectly understandle and I'd fully support them if they didn't go about resisting by firing rockets.

Technically it's not their land anymore. It was given to us by the UN. Sooo.

And the Un got it from Britain who stole it from Palestine in the first place. That makes it better, I'm sure.

I already know how rare these things are, I live here.

Well then.

I'm not pretending every Palestinian is a terrorist (though I could turn that around on you about Israel). I'm trying to explain that there are two sides to this.
Now, I'm not completely sure about this, but don't the Palestinians have the option of leaving?

I'm not saying all Israelis are terrible people but here's the difference: Hamas has no connections to the Palestinian people and government (as in it's not backed by anything financially, etc) while IDF is part of the government. So this is government-sponsored genocide. Palestine also has non-violent organizations but you never hear anything about them because no one gives a shit about Palestine and that's just terrible.
And why the hell would Palestinians have to leave their own land? If some random douchebags stole my land and then told me 'well if you don't like it you can just leave!' I'd sure as fuck do something about it. Even if they could leave (as in had enough money to leave and somehow weren't in an Israeli-controlled section), where would they go? Palestinians aren't exactly the wealthiest of people do they're pretty stumped for choice. They could go to Egypt I suppose, but again: why should they have to leave their own country.

Uh, yes, we were given the land by the UN. And I highly doubt it's impossible to make anything grow there; there are plants that can grow anywhere. Just need to find the right things to plant.

Most places don't even get food or water. Where do you want them to find specific seeds? And there's still that terrible disease.

You do if they're shooting at you. Or would you just ... let yourself get shot?

I don't know much about law in Israel but you can be sure that in every country I've lived in if a police officer decided to shoot through the crowd he'd immediately lose his job and get sent to jail.

I'm sorry, I don't recall defending Israel's actions. Perhaps I did that without noticing?

I got that from the way things were worded and the tone of your posts, and I'm sorry I was rude (also pre-emptively apologizing for the future because I get very pent up about things like this). I suppose I mis-represented it then.

Last I checked, saying that an action is anti-semetic =/= calling a person anti-semetic. Nice overreaction, though. (Also, I invite you to try hunting me down. It should provide some amusement...)

If I say something anti-Semitic than yes, I am anti-Semitic. If someone refers to black people as 'niggers' or Mexicans as 'wetbacks' they're's saying something racist and they are a racist. If I at any point seriously reffered to Jewish people as 'kikes' or 'cut-cocks' then yes, I'd be an anti-Semite.
And I overreacted? Heh, yeah, being called anti-semite is nothin' big, it's not like racists and anti-Semites are the scum of the world or anything.

Also, just because it annoys me, if someone is anti-semetic it doesn't mean they're a bigot about everything. That's... just... wtf. I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

If they're anti-Semitic they're shitbags. It's not better than being a racist or a homophobe. Obviously, a person can be anti-Semitic without being a horrible human being about everything else, but it's rare.

Seems to me you don't know that many Jews. >>;

I just know sensible Jews.

Yes, I do. Strange, how when someone says something should die, I take from that that they said they should die.

The only Israeli I wouldn't mind dying is your prime minister, and even then I don't actively want him to die. Just get someone to break his legs or something.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

Also personally sponsored the killing of 2000 Palestinians some years ago, just like his predecessor. Awesome.

Sure.

Coolio.

 

[OLD ACCOUNT]

Oh yeah Palestine is just like a fake villain in a subpar movie. Christ.

I see everything in movie terms. It happens when you get sucked in to TVtropes. (Honestly, it wasn't meant as demeaning the situation - it's just that once you start reading tropes, you start... literally... thinking in tropes. It's hard to explain.) But, regardless of whether it's uh, appropriate, it still fits. There's never a suitable excuse for war.

The world would be better if Israel had a) been done properly or b) never been created. 'fuck off and die israel' doesn't mean I literally want everyone in Israel to die for fuck's sake. I don't support the wiping out of a large group of people. Unlike Israel.
And I like that: either I support Hamas or I wish them dead. I don't either. Gasp!
Them resisting Israeli occupation is perfectly understandle and I'd fully support them if they didn't go about resisting by firing rockets.

Okay... I'm honestly offended by the suggestion that Israel should never have been made. It's just - the way I've been raised, with most of my family being killed because they had no where to live that was Jewish land? No Jewish military, no place that would defend them without feeling... like they were taking care of a sick child or something, but instead doing so because it's their country, our country. Israel gives us a place to feel safe.

Wow I didn't know until now how much I felt about this. Heh.

And the Un got it from Britain who stole it from Palestine in the first place. That makes it better, I'm sure.

Really, I'm not much interested in how we got it. I'm sure that'll annoy you or whatever, but how often is land acquired peacefully?

Actually that's not even my point, I just don't care. It's so stupid. Everyone whining about the past. God, get over it. War will never be stopped if everyone keeps crying about 'they got the land this way' and 'they bombed us' bla bla. Jesus christ it never stops. That's why the Middle East is so fucked up, people just keep whining about the same shit for forever. Even if the shit is important or a big deal... god... get over it.

Obviously by this I don't mean what's going on right now, but what happened in the past. Key word being past.

I'm not saying all Israelis are terrible people but here's the difference: Hamas has no connections to the Palestinian people and government (as in it's not backed by anything financially, etc) while IDF is part of the government. So this is government-sponsored genocide. Palestine also has non-violent organizations but you never hear anything about them because no one gives a shit about Palestine and that's just terrible.
And why the hell would Palestinians have to leave their own land? If some random douchebags stole my land and then told me 'well if you don't like it you can just leave!' I'd sure as fuck do something about it. Even if they could leave (as in had enough money to leave and somehow weren't in an Israeli-controlled section), where would they go? Palestinians aren't exactly the wealthiest of people do they're pretty stumped for choice. They could go to Egypt I suppose, but again: why should they have to leave their own country.

I would gladly leave. To me, land is just land, or more technically the laws and languages of that land. So if Israel wasn't quite as pleasant I'd opt for something better. Which, actually, I plan to do in the future anyhow.

Most places don't even get food or water. Where do you want them to find specific seeds? And there's still that terrible disease.

Maybe if they stopped bombing us they'd get food and water? Meh.

Also, not denying the hypocrisy (I don't think I said that before) in what we're doing. People don't tend to notice that kind of stuff unless it's pointed out rather clearly that it's hypocritical.

I don't know much about law in Israel but you can be sure that in every country I've lived in if a police officer decided to shoot through the crowd he'd immediately lose his job and get sent to jail.

Don't know much about law in Israel either but I find that hard to believe.

If I say something anti-Semitic than yes, I am anti-Semitic. If someone refers to black people as 'niggers' or Mexicans as 'wetbacks' they're's saying something racist and they are a racist. If I at any point seriously reffered to Jewish people as 'kikes' or 'cut-cocks' then yes, I'd be an anti-Semite.
And I overreacted? Heh, yeah, being called anti-semite is nothin' big, it's not like racists and anti-Semites are the scum of the world or anything.

Then you and I have rather different beliefs. An action or a statement, to me, do not define a person. Aside from that, it's often a matter of opinion.
My family often says things that I consider racist or stereotyping but they don't.

It's not that big a deal. Unless I'm someone you care deeply about, it shouldn't much bother you even if I think you're the most horrible person alive. Since I'm just a random person, what does it matter?

If they're anti-Semitic they're shitbags. It's not better than being a racist or a homophobe. Obviously, a person can be anti-Semitic without being a horrible human being about everything else, but it's rare.

Being better =/= being the same. A lot of people are homophobic without being racist (my aunt for example), or vice versa. They're not necessarily connected.

I just know sensible Jews.

So, I take it you don't know many.

The only Israeli I wouldn't mind dying is your prime minister, and even then I don't actively want him to die. Just get someone to break his legs or something.

Also personally sponsored the killing of 2000 Palestinians some years ago, just like his predecessor. Awesome.

Yeah, I don't know anyone that doesn't hate him. Very popular guy. The Israeli government's been corrupt for a long time, though, so it isn't something new.