Hacking, Jailbreaking, Modding- Wrong or Right

[Solstice]

My friend and I have come to a discussion- he thinks that hacking is completely wrong, and that a person doing such a thing would get arrested, while another can only comprehend hacking as cheating.

I draw a line between legal modifying and illegal activities done with the same software or hardware.

For example, a jailbroken iPhone isn't illegal in itself, correct? Of course Spple will get pissed off, just as Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, and others have. It's not illegal unless you, say, install cracked iPhone apps with Installous, right?

What are your views on hacking, jailbreaking, and modding? Do you see any legal issues simply by modifying something? Discuss.

 

[Phantom]

*looks at her hacked phone*

....


*mumbles*

I don't think it's so bad, I mean my phone is jailbroken. It's technically a Verizon phone, and I use T-Mobile. But it was a nice phone and the price was right.

 

[Crazy Linoone]

Eh, I think as long as the item is yours legally -- you bought it, received it as a gift, whatever -- then whatever you do to the item is none of anyone else's business. So if you hack your own computer using your own computer, good for you. If you hack your friend's computer (without permission), not cool.

I think it's okay as long as you don't harm anyone else with it i.e. hack into other people's computers with your superphone (this can't really happen, but that's besides the point), or download software illegally without paying.

I'm not going to get into the argument of whether pirating is right or wrong, because there's another thread for that already.

For example, a jailbroken iPhone isn't illegal in itself, correct?

Actually, I believe that Apple is a jerk and made it illegal. Apple hates it when people meddle with their products to make them better (or worse), so their computers and phones are impossible to open without either the right tools or breaking something, unlike those of basically all the other companies.

 

[Phantom]

Also I thought iPhones were impossible to jailbreak?

 

[Crazy Linoone]

Also I thought iPhones were impossible to jailbreak?

Naw, people find ways around everything. I'm pretty sure iPhones are broken quite easily, since I've never seen a un-breakable iPhone.

Although I heard that if you update the software on a jailbroken iPhone via Apple, the updated version will crash your phone and kill it forever because Apple is a jerk like that.

 

[Phantom]

That's why I'm a PC!

Seriously though, if you paid for it it's not stealing, hacked or not.

 

[Solstice]

Actually, it was declared legal.

And if you update a jailbroken iPhone, it only erases what's on it.

 

[Crazy Linoone]

Actually, it was declared legal.

And if you update a jailbroken iPhone, it only erases what's on it.

Really? Since when? (Ahhh I sound like I'm challenging you or something. I'm not. I'm just curious.)

Although it seems like the rumor I heard was a bit exaggerated. Ah well, such is the way of rumors.

 

[Solstice]

Sometime last year, the US Court declared jailbreaking legal in the USA dometime last year. (Cydia is blocked in China, which contradicts what they were doing earlier- jailbreaking newly bought iPhones for the user. Could it be Apple's reaction?) Google is your friend.

Applying modchips or modifying a system was never exactly illegal, no matter what the company said. Granted, they're gonna get pissed off because it's users aren't staying under their restrictions (which is exactly why the folks and I at WiiHacks jailbreak, modify Wii's, XBox's, PS3s, and others. We feel like we're strapped behind chains- we strive for freedom on our devices, and we quite frankly don't give a damn what companys like Microsoft, Apple, Nintendo, and Sony think about it. I'd bet Saurik would say the same.)

And if you don't know who Saurik is, he created jailbreaking, and works on Wii hacking, as well -I think-.

(If you want to further discuss this particular part of the conversation, PM me.)

What makes me extremely pissed though is that multitasking and background changing already existed on older devices, BUT WEREN'T ACTIVATED. Even with the new release of iOS 4 for earlier devices, multitasking is still disabled even though an older device can easily use it properly.

 

[Abwayax]

In my view there is nothing immoral with wanting to "mod" an item I buy. If I cannot do certain things to my hardware, I am not owning it, I am renting it, which should be made clear to me at the outset, and I should be made to execute a binding contract (not a click-the-checkbox software EULA, an actual paper contract with a signature) that affirms that I am in fact renting the device and not outright buying it. If I buy it, it is mine, and I can change it however I want. But more importantly I simply refuse to do business with those companies that believe otherwise.

That said, they shouldn't be obligated to provide a warranty for "hacked" devices, since the assumption is that I should know what the hell I'm doing with it.

 

[Solstice]

In my view there is nothing immoral with wanting to "mod" an item I buy. If I cannot do certain things to my hardware, I am not owning it, I am renting it, which should be made clear to me at the outset, and I should be made to execute a binding contract (not a click-the-checkbox software EULA, an actual paper contract with a signature) that affirms that I am in fact renting the device and not outright buying it. If I buy it, it is mine, and I can change it however I want. But more importantly I simply refuse to do business with those companies that believe otherwise.

That said, they shouldn't be obligated to provide a warranty for "hacked" devices, since the assumption is that I should know what the hell I'm doing with it.

(which is exactly why the folks and I at WiiHacks jailbreak, modify Wii's, XBox's, PS3s, and others. We feel like we're strapped behind chains- we strive for freedom on our devices, and we quite frankly don't give a damn what companys like Microsoft, Apple, Nintendo, and Sony think about it. I'd bet Saurik would say the same.)

 

[Dannichu]

We feel like we're strapped behind chains- we strive for freedom on our devices

One day they'll make a film about your epic struggle. The title will probably feature the word "redemption".

Assuming 'jailbreaking' is what we across the pond call 'unlocking', then I pretty much agree with what's been said already.

 

[Solstice]

One day they'll make a film about your epic struggle. The title will probably feature the word "redemption".

Assuming 'jailbreaking' is what we across the pond call 'unlocking', then I pretty much agree with what's been said already.

You are generally correct, but wrong as well. Jailbreaking allows unauthorized content. Unlocking lets you change carriers, but I'm pretty sure you need to be jailbroken first.

Oh yes, that movie would be epic.(Apple would be coming at us with ninjas and all that)

 

[Abwayax]

You are generally correct, but wrong as well. Jailbreaking allows unauthorized content. Unlocking lets you change carriers, but I'm pretty sure you need to be jailbroken first.

That's more or less true. You don't generally "jailbreak" an Android device, for example, because Android doesn't have the same "jail" that iOS does. However, Android does have its own limitations, and you have to perform some sort of hack to get by them. Since it requires that you obtain root access to the phone, the rough equivalent of jailbreaking in the Android community is "rooting."

Since iOS has Unix ancestry, I'd assume it, too, has a root account (just like OS X does), but I'm not sure if jailbreaking necessarily leads to, or requires, root access.

 

[Wobbles]

I believe that hacking, Jailbraking, modding, is okay.

What really pisses me off, however, is when people start downloading thing that would usually cost money (such as a DS emulator with ROMs) and start bragging about it!

Me: Hey, you got your DS?
Guy 1: Yeah, I'll grab it real quick.
Guy 2: *Pulls out iPhone* I've got mine right here!
Me: Jerk.

 

[mewtini]

...That was a little of a bump, Wobbles. (hahaha I feel so weird typing that out)

I think about the same; once you buy the device in question, it's yours and it's your fault if you screw it up or improve it :D

'Course, if you rented it then it's really not YOURS and you need to ask the real owner about it.

 

[Solstice]

Bumped.

You can keep the discussion going. If you'd like.

 

[Valerunner]

One day they'll make a film about your epic struggle. The title will probably feature the word "redemption".

Assuming 'jailbreaking' is what we across the pond call 'unlocking', then I pretty much agree with what's been said already.

Danni, unlocking and jailbreaking are similar, but not the same.

Unlocking is simply deleting the retailer's SIM recognition file (HORRIBLY tempted to put IFF) so it can work with all networks, as the manufacturer intended. Like making a master lock the police use.

Jailbreaking is literally breaking the system and rewriting some files before putting it back together again. Usually these files are software anti-piracy files. For example, I've broken my PSP using a Pandora battery, which deleted some files and replaced them with the software equivalent of paperweights. Now I can play homebrews, at the expense of not being able to update ever again.

Unlocking is legal, but it's frowned upon by companies. Jailbreaking is still legal unless you're selling it, because you're making a profit from breaking a manufacturer's patented product. Highly frowned upon by companies, but legal because it's classed as customization.