Help on transgenderism

[Minish]

I'm doing transgenderism for my Communication & Culture coursework. Which means, I need to write a massive text essay and also make a creative piece (no idea what the bloody hell I'm going to do for that suggestions would be appreciated there :'D). But I'll figure that out. Most importantly, I need some help on understanding transgenderism enough that I can write something really comprehensive and valuable about it.

This subject's coursework is actually pretty crap: I was basically given the topic of "body modification" and several in-depth examples. Right near the bottom was the word "transgenderism" with like, no details, so I'm assuming I can pretty much go anywhere with it as long as I stick with this question: "Why do people change their sex?"

I'm putting this here because I want it known that this needs to be a serious thread. I know many people on the forum have a lot to say on this topic, and no doubt this might turn into some sort of debate. Which is good! All helpful for my coursework.


I feel like I'm missing something on transgenderism. I understand that trans people feel uncomfortable in their original sex. But at the same time, I feel like gender is purely socially constructed; that's what I've been told all my life by respected sources, what I've decided after much thought, and it just seems to go against changing your sex to fit the gender in your brain.

1. Gender and sex are different things; sex is what's between your legs, gender is what's between your ears from birth and is equally important.
2. Gender is socially constructed.

Don't these things contradict eachother? If gender is just all the norms and values that are associated with female and with male, that we build over our lives, then is that what's supposed to be in your head? But, then, with transgenderism, surely gender is something innate?

I thought that maybe trans people just feel totally uncomfortable with the norms given to them. But that doesn't make sense when you have most trans people realising that when they're really young - it suggests that gender is innate.

Does anyone get where I'm coming from with this? I feel totally stupid, like I'm missing something or just not being intelligent enough to figure out how people can feel that their gender is different to their sex, that gender is socially constructed, and that gender is important enough to warrant going through massive procedures both to change their sex and live as their real gender in public. If gender is socially constructed, how can someone have a "real" gender from birth? I think I must be missing something massive that would make this all fit into place, if I only just understood it.

I'm just so confused. But I'm fascinated by transgenderism at the same time, and this coursework seems like a great opportunity to do something I'm interested in, and learn, at the same time. So I would be extremely grateful if anyone could help me out here and possibly if we could get some debate going on this issue. Also, sorry if this post doesn't make much sense or the things I'm trying to say/ask are unclear. I'm an idiot. :<

Also also also; I know that I need to go look up things online for this, find some proper research, which I will do! I just want some proper conversation with actual people about it. I know there are several trans people here as well, which is perfect: I really need your opinions, experiences etc. if you're willing to help. :D

 

[Jolty]

okok trying to get my head round this
I don't brains good derp

right
I think that gender /is/ an innate thing, but the things /associated/ with any of them are the socially constructed parts
So... the idea that men should be masculine and women should be feminine is a socially constructed idea. You can still have feminine men and masculine women whose gender and sex match up, they just don't conform to the socially constructed "norms" for gender.

With trans people, the same still applies, you can have masculine or feminine men and masculine or feminine women, but I guess it's more the fact that (before HRT or anything at least) people will see our gender as the same as our sex, which we know isn't right. So we go to whatever lengths to ensure people see us as the gender we know we really are.

I was always a tomboy type kid, so I kinda just assumed I was just a different sort of girl. Of course I would have preferred to be a boy, as I felt a lot more connected to males (if that makes any sense whatsoever), but I had no idea transgenderism existed so I went on believing I was just a masculine girl. However much I hated it.
After I found out transgenderism existed though, and that changing your sex was actually realistically possible, it got me thinking for a bloody long time and I came to realise that my gender is in fact male, not female...

I think it's pretty much down to how you feel about yourself and how you wish to be viewed in society. Since I've started identifying as male, I've hated being referred to as female even more than I used to, since now I know what the problem was/is. And I'll do whatever it takes to be seen as male 100% of the time.

shit I have no idea if anything I'm saying is making the slightest bit of sense
someone else post things :(

 

[Dark Shocktail]

Society does encourage certain qualities to each gender - but within each of us there's a sense of connection with our sex and our gender. I personally, don't really feel much towards being a girl (which I am) or a boy really. I guess it means I'd be happy as either sex, but was born female so I roll with it.

Still, for most people gender plays a huge role in their identity. It defines part of who you are: I am a boy, I'm going to be a man or I'm a girl, and I will become a woman. It is one of the few ways that part of our personality can be shown externally at first glance and that is a deeply personal thing - to have part of your mind revealed the moment you meet someone. Even girls who act tomboyish or boys who act feminine have a sense of being a girl and boy respectfully, and what that means in terms of who they are.

There is something innate about who we decide to be, and that includes gender. Yes, society does play a role - it plays a role in how we view gender. Why do we call some girls 'tomboys'? Because they have traits we think are more in tune with boys. As a child I was blissfully ignorant of gender (as I still largely am, when it comes to myself) while having an older brother and father who I idolised and took after. Did I think I was boyish? Not really. But people told me I was so I began to repeat it.

To be born in the wrong gender then, is awful. Imagine putting on an outfit - it doesn't suit you, it's ill-fitting, the trousers are tight and the top hanging off your shoulder, with blistering shoes. Now imagine that is your skin. You can't take it off. You can't alter it without maiming yourself. You have to wear it everyday. You can try to hide behind baggy clothes but people know what you are. They introduce you to their friends, to strangers "Here's my son/daughter/brother/sister... his/her name is-". There's no getting around it and there's no easy way out. You can try hiding indoors but...it's your very skin. Strip naked and hide in a darkened room and it just feels wrong, because your body isn't how you feel it should be.

I have had a transgendered friend who wanted to take a knife and 'cut away' what didn't feel right on their body. That is how serious being transgendered can be. I have no doubt that before this was discussed openly and before there were treatments available, many trangendered people commited suicide.

 

[#1 bro]

yeah this is something I don't know a whole lot about either... I think it's really weird that people choose to go through the procedure of changing sex because it sounds awful. don't you have to look like an in-between for like a year or two while undergoing the operations? i would feel so self-conscious and wrong... and then even when you get your new body you have to be awkward around all your friends and family and if you ever have sex with anyone you can't tell them or they'll flip out, but they have to find out eventually...

it just sounds bad in general but obviously people do it for a reason. i can't imagine feeling so "off" in my body that i would need a new one made for me. tbh i would probably feel even more "off" in a fake body but i guess for some people it's just the right thing. Kind of want to tell transexuals to "just chill out and be yourself" but obviously that's not the right advice to give. it's just so alien to me...

Really good article on the subject right here -> http://open.salon.com/blog/hear_me_roar/2009/02/21/i_changed_sex_and_died

If you go on 420chan (image board similar to 4chan but more centered around drugs) there's an whole board on crossdressing, sex change operations, and transgenderism. It's really interesting to read if you are curious about the subject, I recommend it.

 

[Adriane]

I'm a little tired so I'm not going to say a whole bunch but speaking as a transgendered individual, a couple things!

There is a difference between transgender and transsexual. Transgendered people seek to change their perceived gender by others -- that is, people see what they think is a boy or a girl, so they connect the idea of a boy or girl with you. Transsexuals aim to change their actual sex through HRT (not to say transgendered individuals don't do HRT, they often do!) and SRS, While I'm transgendered, I am perfectly okay with my penis because people don't actually see it (usually) and thus it's not part of my "perceived image".

I absolutely loathe gender. The entire system brings so much pain to so many people. But convincing a society of sheep is nigh impossible. In a society where it is only okay for girls to wear skirts or boys must be aggressive and into sport, it often seems like the only way for people to make at least semi-accurate prejudices is to become a different gender (or genderless period).

 

[Jolty]

don't you have to look like an in-between for like a year or two while undergoing the operations? i would feel so self-conscious and wrong...

We feel self concious and wrong for our entire lives until we get to be able to change anything, pretty much.
As for looking like an in-between, I'd say FTMs have it a lot easier than MTFs... we often just look a lot younger than we really are, someone at uni said I looked like I was 12, but for MTFs I can't even imagine... :(

and then even when you get your new body you have to be awkward around all your friends and family and if you ever have sex with anyone you can't tell them or they'll flip out, but they have to find out eventually...

My mum flips out at the notion of me cutting my hair to be really short. Fuck knows what it's gonna be like when I get on testosterone. I imagine I'll lose my one remaining friend at home too.
As for partners, I guess I just hope for someone who won't care about what's in my pants. My current girlfriend said that when she found out I'm trans, she didn't think of me any differently at all. She doesn't care about what's in my pants.

it just sounds bad in general but obviously people do it for a reason. i can't imagine feeling so "off" in my body that i would need a new one made for me. tbh i would probably feel even more "off" in a fake body but i guess for some people it's just the right thing.

There's nothing fake about our "new" bodies. Hormones alter our bodies to how they should have been but they can't do everything so surgery is necessary for some things.
I'm not on hormones yet so I can't really say for sure but I do know that for example when wearing my chest binder, I feel a lot better about myself. I can't stand the idea of people knowing I have boobs so I wear it as often as possible.

Kind of want to tell transexuals to "just chill out and be yourself" but obviously that's not the right advice to give. it's just so alien to me...

Yeah but doing all this change IS to be ourselves
I always considered myself a boy of sorts when I was younger but when I got to about 10 or 11 years old that wasn't an option anymore so I just tried to deal with being a girl I guess. 6 years of hating myself for a seemingly unknown reason aw yeaaa


and fuck that article made me tear up hdjhgfj

 

[Eloi]

Well, if I understand my transsexual boyfriend as much as I think I do:

Being transsexual means that your personal self-esteem is the same as if you were of the other gender. Now, being a girl, I would be very offended if everyone called me a guy all the time and probably not like all of the bodily things that come with being male. To be born as a boy (and vice versa, its especially important to note that there is female-to-male and male-to-female transsexuals), and still think the way I do, would probably be very damaging to your self-esteem and your entire concept of self.

Now, about gender as social construct. Sure it is. But an average person is not independent of society if they are healthily engaging in real life, now are they?

 

[Pwnemon]

So if I understand right changing gender is more an outward way to show others your personality?

 

[Eloi]

So if I understand right changing gender is more an outward way to show others your personality?

Well not just others, yourself. If you are transsexual (again, if I understand my boyfriend), you can't stand the way you are personally. You look at yourself and feel disgusted and/or horrified at what you see. Everyone's typical opinions in your gender seem alien to you. Your sexuality is confusing because you want to have sex you can't have. You don't feel like yourself all the time because you have to live up to the society's wants from you as your birth-gender. Surgery is the treatment for this, it makes one feel more like themselves, and allows people to actually like who they are under their clothes. Helping people to be convinced of a transsexual's mental gender is only a component of this. Any one who knows more about the topic can correct me, I may be misremembering things my boyfriend told me/not telling it right.