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Life after Death?

FireChao said:
it's just funny that they were so similar to music dragon's perfect world
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Only because you completely misunderstood what he was saying. MD meant that a world with free will that is nevertheless predestined (i.e. God knows everything that will happen) can be no different from a world with no free will, since in both cases individuals will carry out a certain action no matter what.
 
no one would use the word, but if we sat there just being happy for no reason, life certainly would be ghastly
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No it wouldn't, you'd be happy and you wouldn't have the free will to question that. From our perspective, where we do have free will - sure, it does seem pretty ghastly.

it's just funny that they were so similar to music dragon's perfect world
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Not really; In Brave New World there are beings with free will, but they're a selected few and that's their purpose; but at the same time, they've been indoctrinated to be in favour of the system. This is what makes Bernard so interesting (until he becomes a jerk).
 
ultraviolet said:
No it wouldn't, you'd be happy and you wouldn't have the free will to question that. From our perspective, where we do have free will - sure, it does seem pretty ghastly.
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Even though we would be happy in that situation, I would still give my life to stop that hapenning to the world (probably - I've never been in a situation like that so I don't know whether or not I'd just get scared or something).

p.s. I think you guys have successfully torn my religion from me - I still think it's highly like that God exists, I just don't believe in the roman catholic depiction of him...
 
Music Dragon said:
Don't try to pull the "free will" card - the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being is not compatible with that of free will in any way.
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As shown repeatedly in the Bible, God's knowledge of the future is incomplete (see, e.g., 1 Samuel 15:11).

Music Dragon said:
I don't think free will is compatible with God as we know him
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You've got it backwards. Free will is incompatible with naturalism.
 
Im christian and i know i shouldn't be scared of the afterlife of hell if i live a pure christian life(not going so well)and i will be saved in the everlasting heaven if i do,but i have little faith...i mean science is slowly showing its all not real and what if it isnt real?what if when we die we will all lose are memories,our life,to not eat,sleep,talk,walk,move and to enter the world of eternal darkness,mute,deafening,unfeeling at the same time we can even think!?!
just imagining that is already a nightmare! once life is over its the pit of death for you,forever!?! (im really sorry i just said that God...please forgive me and not throw me into the endless inferno that will burn me in to a million pieces just because i lost faith in you...)
 
hacker90 said:
what if when we die we will all lose are memories,our life,to not eat,sleep,talk,walk,move and to enter the world of eternal darkness,mute,deafening,unfeeling at the same time we can even think!?!
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Pretty much. It won't matter though because you won't feel it :]

I believe in reincarnation (but only out of the spite that I really am not fond of a complete annihilation of consciousness), which...isn't very Christian, is it? In comparison, though, immortality in heaven sounds even more ghastly, when you dwell on the concept of eternity. The sheer thought of living forever is a bit too iffy for my taste.
 
DonKarasuMan said:
In comparison, though, immortality in heaven sounds even more ghastly, when you dwell on the concept of eternity. The sheer thought of living forever is a bit too iffy for my taste.
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I have no reason to fear eternal life - it's definitely better than annihilation in my opinion - there is always something new you can do, surely? Even with eternity to spend...
 
FireChao said:
Even though we would be happy in that situation, I would still give my life to stop that hapenning to the world (probably - I've never been in a situation like that so I don't know whether or not I'd just get scared or something).
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Yes, I think a lot of people would. It's mostly just fear and counterintuition.

FireChao said:
p.s. I think you guys have successfully torn my religion from me - I still think it's highly like that God exists, I just don't believe in the roman catholic depiction of him...
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Definitely a step in the right direction!

Creasy said:
As shown repeatedly in the Bible, God's knowledge of the future is incomplete (see, e.g., 1 Samuel 15:11).
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Yeah, but I was basing my argument on the assumption that God is omnipotent and omniscient, which seems to be the general consensus among Christians. (Coincidentally, the "general consensus" very often deviates from what's in the Bible.) Not that his being capable of making poor decisions makes him significantly more plausible...

Creasy said:
You've got it backwards. Free will is incompatible with naturalism.
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I've never believed in "free will" (not the kind we're talking of here, anyway); I was just trying to show that "free will" is not a valid explanation as to why God would allow evil to exist.

hacker90 said:
Im christian and i know i shouldn't be scared of the afterlife of hell if i live a pure christian life(not going so well)and i will be saved in the everlasting heaven if i do,but i have little faith...i mean science is slowly showing its all not real and what if it isnt real?what if when we die we will all lose are memories,our life,to not eat,sleep,talk,walk,move and to enter the world of eternal darkness,mute,deafening,unfeeling at the same time we can even think!?!
just imagining that is already a nightmare! once life is over its the pit of death for you,forever!?! (im really sorry i just said that God...please forgive me and not throw me into the endless inferno that will burn me in to a million pieces just because i lost faith in you...)
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It's not really "the pit of death". If you want an idea of what it'll be like, try to picture the way things felt before you were born.
 
The reason people are so afraid of death is because humans have no concept, and never will have any concept of nothing. Death ends everything, and you just stop. No thoughts, no feelings, no nothing, and people make the mistake of thinking that you’re just stuck in a grave for all eternity, knowing that you are, but powerless to do anything. I find this really rather scary (the whole concept of death, I mean).

I simply don’t believe in an afterlife, though. It’s all just carrot and stick by religion.
 
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