Mega Evolution

[Negrek]

I may be misreading, but technically doesn't this mean that the quest opponents aren't allowed to mega evolve unless both challengers have a Pokémon capable of mega evolving in their active squad?

Quest opponents are already allowed to do things that normal players/pokémon aren't allowed to do in battle (like... be legendary pokémon), so no, I wouldn't apply that restriction to them anyway. But, it's true, it would probably make more sense to change that restriction so it applies to normal trainer battles rather than tournaments and the like.

Is 3 happiness high enough? If you've got enough experience to even have a Charizard, say, you're probably already going to have that easily. I guess it's be different for an Absol, though, who wouldn't need any experience technically. Should the happiness be based on how much the Pokemon would likely have at that point? Or is it okay to like suddenly not only have a Charizard, but a Charizard capable of mega evolving? I guess that's how it works in the games?

The restriction is intended to make it so you can't just buy an aerodactyl/absol/whatever and slap a mega stone on it if you happen to have one. The idea is that you should only be able to mega evolve a mon you've actually worked with and used in battle just a little bit. So it's fine for a charizard to evolve and then immediately be able to go mega; presumably you've been battling with it to evolve it, so you've put the work in.

There's a loophole there where someone could trade you a charizard or something and, because happiness doesn't reset on trade like it does in the game, you'd be able to mega evolve it immediately. I don't think this is too large a concern, though.

Also, I've been thinking about the actual boosts mega evolution would grant. Right now I'm thinking maybe a net +5 distributed across all stats (some megas have a stat decrease, so they can get +6 total in other stats). Based on that system, this is a preview of what the "A" mega evo pokémon's boosts would look like:

Mega Abomasnow: +2 Attack, +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, -1 Speed
Mega Absol: +1 Attack, +2 Special Attack, +2 Speed
Mega Aerodactyl: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Aggron: +2 Attack, +2 Defense, +1 Special Defense
Mega Alakazam: +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Altaria: +2 Attack, +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack
Mega Ampharos: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +3 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, -1 Speed
Mega Audino: +2 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +2 Special Defense

 

[Negrek]

With further cogitation on this topic, I'm wondering whether five energy for an overall +5 to stats is appropriate. It's reasonably powerful, but that's also exactly the going rate for any boosting attack. Mega evolution does also change abilities, so you are getting something more there, but you also have to lose out on your item slot to use it. So what I'm thinking is:

a) give more than a total of +5 in boosts
b) decrease energy cost and/or remove the action requirement
c) something else?

Removing the need to take an action to mega evolve makes it much more powerful--I don't think too powerful, though. Decreasing the energy cost to 3% or even 1% ultimately doesn't have a lot of impact; you're basically left with a one-use nearly-guaranteed silver wind and ability change that costs you an item slot. Which I guess might be okay? That effect is better than for some items, worse than for others, so whether or not it's "worth it" is a little situational. I do think it's good to have some choice involved in mega evolution, like, you may not always want to mega evolve a 'mon for a battle, but on the other hand I don't know if the ability as discussed is quite splashy enough.

 

[M&F]

With further cogitation on this topic, I'm wondering whether five energy for an overall +5 to stats is appropriate. It's reasonably powerful, but that's also exactly the going rate for any boosting attack. Mega evolution does also change abilities, so you are getting something more there, but you also have to lose out on your item slot to use it. So what I'm thinking is:

a) give more than a total of +5 in boosts
b) decrease energy cost and/or remove the action requirement
c) something else?

Removing the need to take an action to mega evolve makes it much more powerful--I don't think too powerful, though. Decreasing the energy cost to 3% or even 1% ultimately doesn't have a lot of impact; you're basically left with a one-use nearly-guaranteed silver wind and ability change that costs you an item slot. Which I guess might be okay? That effect is better than for some items, worse than for others, so whether or not it's "worth it" is a little situational. I do think it's good to have some choice involved in mega evolution, like, you may not always want to mega evolve a 'mon for a battle, but on the other hand I don't know if the ability as discussed is quite splashy enough.

It's worth considering that 5+ in a single action is more than anything can provide at once except for Shell Smash (and there's a difference between spending 3 actions raising your stats, vs. raising them all in 1 action and having the other 2 free to start the assault with -- or even, to keep increasing stats with, since the Mega Evolution boosts won't contribute towards ramming the max stages). It's also not really much of an opportunity cost relative to other existing items -- the ones that fiddle with stats normally only provide 1+ boosts (albeit at no energy or action cost, but usually requiring some condition to be met first).

That said, the 5% energy cost I set up there wasn't substantiated on much of anything, so it's probably worth lowering or even nixing if people do feel that Mega Evolution wouldn't be worthwhile for 5+ net at the current rate.

 

[Eifie]

It's worth considering that 5+ in a single action is more than anything can provide at once except for Shell Smash (and there's a difference between spending 3 actions raising your stats, vs. raising them all in 1 action and having the other 2 free to start the assault with -- or even, to keep increasing stats with, since the Mega Evolution boosts won't contribute towards ramming the max stages).

I agree; and none of these have any stat decreases as drawbacks (except for speed), so it seems fine to me. Although I'm kind of wondering about the speed decreases: what's the need for them when the Pokémon's base speed decreases by mega evolving anyway?

I don't really care about the energy cost. Would it be possible to release mega stones and see how things go before deciding if mega evolution should not take an action? Not having to take an action to mega evolve would be a nice perk, but I'm kind of worried that it could make commanding first against a Pokémon that can mega evolve a pretty huge pain.

 

[Negrek]

It's worth considering that 5+ in a single action is more than anything can provide at once except for Shell Smash (and there's a difference between spending 3 actions raising your stats, vs. raising them all in 1 action and having the other 2 free to start the assault with -- or even, to keep increasing stats with, since the Mega Evolution boosts won't contribute towards ramming the max stages). It's also not really much of an opportunity cost relative to other existing items -- the ones that fiddle with stats normally only provide 1+ boosts (albeit at no energy or action cost, but usually requiring some condition to be met first).

That said, the 5% energy cost I set up there wasn't substantiated on much of anything, so it's probably worth lowering or even nixing if people do feel that Mega Evolution wouldn't be worthwhile for 5+ net at the current rate.

Right, I forgot that they stack with normal stat boosts and can't be removed/copied/etc. That does make them substantially better than "normal" stat boosts, so paying 5% for them is probably fine. Not that lowering the energy cost to, like, 3% or something would probably have had a lot of impact on usage.

Although I'm kind of wondering about the speed decreases: what's the need for them when the Pokémon's base speed decreases by mega evolving anyway?

Since I was thinking of all the other boosts in terms of stat modifiers rather than base stats, it didn't even occur to me to do something different with speed! But it's true, that base stat does get used, so it could just be a base stat change rather than a boost the way the other ones are. The only reason not to would be that the actual base stat speed changes vary; when the change is listed as "-1 speed," that just means that the mega evolution decreased that stat, but the magnitude of that change varies between megas. So leaving it as a -1 to speed makes the power level of the evos more equal than using the absolute change in speed.

I don't really care about the energy cost. Would it be possible to release mega stones and see how things go before deciding if mega evolution should not take an action? Not having to take an action to mega evolve would be a nice perk, but I'm kind of worried that it could make commanding first against a Pokémon that can mega evolve a pretty huge pain.

Of course, I'm not going to debate endlessly over whether or not the action use is important before releasing mega evolution. If one is clearly a better option than the other, though, it would be nice to figure it out before releasing and make that the initial version!

 

[Sandstone-Shadow]

Personally, I like the idea of taking an action to mega evolve. I might have next to no authority to actually comment on how mega evolution should work (currently halfway through Y for the first time lololol), but it seems like something that just should take an action, with how fast ASB actions are portrayed as taking place. Plus overall mega evolution is an advantage, right? And 5% energy isn't really gonna make or break your ability to use it. My inexperienced two cents.

 

[Superbird]

Personally, I like the idea of taking an action to mega evolve. I might have next to no authority to actually comment on how mega evolution should work (currently halfway through Y for the first time lololol), but it seems like something that just should take an action, with how fast ASB actions are portrayed as taking place. Plus overall mega evolution is an advantage, right? And 5% energy isn't really gonna make or break your ability to use it. My inexperienced two cents.

For what it's worth, this also almost exactly describes my thoughts on the subject.

 

[Negrek]

Okay, sounds like we'll go with mega evolution costing an action, then. XD

Any further comments on the boosts provided? If people are okay with the sort of stat modifiers I proposed, then I think all that's left is to assign some to the rest of the evos, and we can try this thing out. If you have any objections or further suggestions, now would be the time to speak up!

 

[Negrek]

Okay, remaining mega evolution stat boosts (me like a week ago: "Oh, no big, there's only like fifteen mega evos, right?" *sigh*). If these look good and there aren't any last-minute changes, mega evolution should go live in a couple days.

Mega Beedrill: +3 Attack, -1 Special Attack, +3 Speed
Mega Blastoise: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense
Mega Blaziken: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Camerupt: +2 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +2 Special Defense, -1 Speed
Mega Charizard X: +3 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack
Mega Charizard Y: +1 Attack, +3 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense
Mega Diancie: +3 Attack, -2 Defense, +3 Special Attack, -2 Special Defense, +3 Speed
Mega Gallade: +3 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Garchomp: +2 Attack, +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, -1 Speed
Mega Gardevoir: +1 Attac, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Gengar: +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Glalie: +2 Attack, +2 Special Attack, +1 Speed
Mega Gyarados: +2 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense
Mega Heracross: +3 Attack, +2 Defense, +1 Special Defense, -1 Speed
Mega Houndoom: +2 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Speed
Mega Kangaskhan: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Latias: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense
Meta Latios: +2 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense
Mega Lopunny: +2 Attack, +1 Defense, +2 Speed
Mega Lucario: +2 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Speed
Mega Manectric: +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Mawile: +1 Attack, +2 Defense, +2 Special Defense
Mega Medicham: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Metagross: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Mewtwo X: +3 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Defense
Mega Mewtwo Y: +2 Attack, -1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Pidgeot: +1 Attack, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Pinsir: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Rayquaza: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Sableye: +1 Attack, +2 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +2 Special Defense, -1 Speed
Mega Salamence: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Sceptile: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Scizor: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Sharpedo: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Slowbro: +3 Defense, +2 Special Attack
Mega Steelix: +2 Attack, +2 Defense, +1 Special Defense
Mega Swampert: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Meta Tyranitar: +1 Attack, +2 Defense, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Venusaur: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense

 

[Kung Fu Ferret]

Slightly unrelated, but are there any plans to add Z-Moves?

 

[Eifie]

Mega Altaria sheds a single tear :'(

edit: haha I'm dumb this is in addition to the ones before. Anyway, will a mega's base speed still change when it mega evolves, or will it just have this penalty applied to its original form's base speed?

edit 2: I find it kind of weird that Mega Blaziken gets a +1 to all stats when its base Defense and Special Defense only go up 10 points, while its Attack goes up by 40.

 

[Negrek]

Slightly unrelated, but are there any plans to add Z-Moves?

Yes! i don't think it'll be in the super-near future, since I'd like to give mega evos a little time to have the spotlight, but Z-moves will be implemented eventually.

Mega Altaria sheds a single tear :'(

edit: haha I'm dumb this is in addition to the ones before. Anyway, will a mega's base speed still change when it mega evolves, or will it just have this penalty applied to its original form's base speed?

edit 2: I find it kind of weird that Mega Blaziken gets a +1 to all stats when its base Defense and Special Defense only go up 10 points, while its Attack goes up by 40.

A mega's base speed won't change; the modifier is to its regular evo's base speed.

And yeah, that's kind of a problem with several pokémon. I wanted to give at least a +1 to each stat that increased, no matter how much it increased, but that leads to a fair number of pokémon getting "+1 to each stat," even though the change in base stats is actually quite uneven.

The thing is, I have to start making arbitrary decisions about how to allocate boosts if I try to make them reflect the underlying stat distributions more closely. Mega blaziken gets +40 attack, +10 Defense, +20 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, and +20 Speed. I could ignore the defense boosts and give it +3 attack and +1 to each of special attack and speed. Would that be preferable? I think that's perhaps a more fun/flavorful way to do it, but also a bit more arbitrary.

 

[Eifie]

The thing is, I have to start making arbitrary decisions about how to allocate boosts if I try to make them reflect the underlying stat distributions more closely. Mega blaziken gets +40 attack, +10 Defense, +20 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, and +20 Speed. I could ignore the defense boosts and give it +3 attack and +1 to each of special attack and speed. Would that be preferable? I think that's perhaps a more fun/flavorful way to do it, but also a bit more arbitrary.

Maybe it's more arbitrary, but I do think it better reflects what the mega evolution is supposed to achieve. The +10 to defense and special defense are just kind of token increases, after all.

 

[Negrek]

ohgod. Okay, let's take another crack at these. Stat spreads with proposed changes are in bold.

Mega Abomasnow: +2 Attack, +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, -1 Speed
Mega Absol: +1 Attack, +2 Special Attack, +2 Speed
Mega Aerodactyl: +2 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Aggron: +2 Attack, +3 Defense
Mega Alakazam: +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +2 Speed
Mega Altaria: +2 Attack, +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack
Mega Ampharos: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +3 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, -1 Speed
Mega Audino: +2 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +2 Special Defense
Mega Beedrill: +3 Attack, -1 Special Attack, +3 Speed
Mega Blastoise: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense
Mega Blaziken: +3 Attack, +1 Special Attack, +1 Speed
Mega Camerupt: +2 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +2 Special Defense, -1 Speed
Mega Charizard X: +3 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack
Mega Charizard Y: +1 Attack, +3 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense
Mega Diancie: +3 Attack, -2 Defense, +3 Special Attack, -2 Special Defense, +3 Speed
Mega Gallade: +3 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Garchomp: +2 Attack, +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, -1 Speed
Mega Gardevoir: +1 Attac, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Gengar: +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Glalie: +2 Attack, +2 Special Attack, +1 Speed
Mega Gyarados: +2 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense
Mega Heracross: +3 Attack, +2 Defense, +1 Special Defense, -1 Speed
Mega Houndoom: +2 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Speed
Mega Kangaskhan: +2 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense
Mega Latias: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense
Meta Latios: +2 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense
Mega Lopunny: +3 Attack, +2 Speed
Mega Lucario: +2 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +1 Speed
Mega Manectric: +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +2 Speed
Mega Mawile: +1 Attack, +2 Defense, +2 Special Defense
Mega Medicham: +2 Attack, +1 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Metagross: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Defense, +2 Speed
Mega Mewtwo X: +3 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Defense
Mega Mewtwo Y: +2 Attack, -1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Pidgeot: +3 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Pinsir: +2 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Defense, +1 Speed
Mega Rayquaza: +2 Attack, +2 Special Attack, +1 Speed
Mega Sableye: +1 Attack, +2 Defense, +1 Special Attack, +2 Special Defense, -1 Speed
Mega Salamence: +3 Defense, +2 Speed
Mega Sceptile: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Speed
Mega Scizor: +1 Attack, +3 Defense, +1 Special Defense
Mega Sharpedo: +1 Attack, +2 Defense, +2 Special Defense
Mega Slowbro: +3 Defense, +2 Special Attack
Mega Steelix: +2 Attack, +2 Defense, +1 Special Defense
Mega Swampert: +3 Attack, +1 Defense, +1 Special Defense
Meta Tyranitar: +2 Attack, +2 Defense, +1 Special Defense
Mega Venusaur: +1 Attack, +1 Defense, +2 Special Attack, +1 Special Defense