Meowfia

[M&F]

So you do know me as well as I thought you did... which only makes your statements on my early posts even more .

Oh, don't worry, I'm perfectly aware that you enjoy a spot of rabblerousing regardless of alignment, same as me. I'm just not really sold on this idea that your specific choice of gambit is neutral, when it in fact lines up pretty well with your usual scum playstyle!

But eh, talkative scum might as well get another day to keep things entertaining; it's the quiet vultures that I prefer hunting.

 

[Butterfree]

Mmmmm. I don't reeeally like M&F's last few posts (I just find this sort of aggressive play kind of unpleasant and anti-town, honestly), but they do on a gut level strike me as sincere, too genuinely frustrated and tired and flippant to be scum. In a game of this size the mafia would be playing fairly carefully, I think.

Eifie's response, meanwhile, was reasonable but also very 'on-script', and something strikes me as off about the way she's still insistently defending herself against M&F's suspicions of her, even after M&F's moved on to voting for RedneckPhoenix and the thread is largely on her side - something one might do as scum who's attracted more suspicion than they'd like and wants to be sure to dismiss it quickly and be read as town being baselessly accused, but would seem a lot less pressing as actual town. So I'm going for Eifie. I don't feel 100% certain of this, but it's my best take on the situation.

 

[Eifie]

Mmmmm. I don't reeeally like M&F's last few posts (I just find this sort of aggressive play kind of unpleasant and anti-town, honestly), but they do on a gut level strike me as sincere, too genuinely frustrated and tired and flippant to be scum. In a game of this size the mafia would be playing fairly carefully, I think.

Eifie's response, meanwhile, was reasonable but also very 'on-script', and something strikes me as off about the way she's still insistently defending herself against M&F's suspicions of her, even after M&F's moved on to voting for RedneckPhoenix and the thread is largely on her side - something one might do as scum who's attracted more suspicion than they'd like and wants to be sure to dismiss it quickly and be read as town being baselessly accused, but would seem a lot less pressing as actual town. So I'm going for Eifie. I don't feel 100% certain of this, but it's my best take on the situation.

I'm... literally not "insistently defending" myself, though. I pointed out that MF was contradicting herself by complaining about how the tcodf meta is to lynch people for trying to actually play the game instead of sitting around being passive and talking about how there's no info, when that is pretty much what her case on me boils down to. The reason I suspect MF is because I don't think she was making her argument about me in good faith. I think she was trying to take advantage of that meta to put suspicion on me. So when she says things that seem to support this idea, you bet I'm going to say something about it.

Why is it that you apply the statement "In a game of this size the mafia would be playing fairly carefully, I think." only to MF and not to me?

 

[Eifie]

Also, I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts on DarkAura.

 

[DarkAura]

Unvote, for the time being. Keldeo, can I request a current running total of the votes so far?

I think it's a safe assumption to say that between MF and Eifie, one of them is almost certainly scum, as none of this strikes me as an argument between two innocents given how far this discussion has been taken.

 

[Keldeo]

Keldeo, can I request a current running total of the votes so far?

Yep!

M&F (3): Eifie (#45), RedneckPhoenix (#51), I liek Squirtles (#55)
RedneckPhoenix (1): M&F (#57)
Eifie (1): Butterfree (#62)
Not voting: Flora, DarkAura (unvote #65)

 

[DarkAura]

Thank you!

Alright, knowing both the current votes and the fact that we have somewhere close to fourteen hours before the deadline hits, it makes me wonder why MF isn't trying to save their own skin by changing their vote to Eifie.

 

[M&F]

Alright, knowing both the current votes and the fact that we have somewhere close to fourteen hours before the deadline hits, it makes me wonder why MF isn't trying to save their own skin by changing their vote to Eifie.

I'm roughly 0% concerned with ~defending myself~. Hell, after I flip, you can all take your pick of which is scummiest: Eifie, or these limp-wristed bandwagonners.

Notwithstanding also that changing my vote at this very point would accomplish a precise nothing in terms of saving my smooth, beautiful skin, although I wouldn't mind trying to push a tie just so we can all argue for a little longer.

 

[Butterfree]

I'm... literally not "insistently defending" myself, though. I pointed out that MF was contradicting herself by complaining about how the tcodf meta is to lynch people for trying to actually play the game instead of sitting around being passive and talking about how there's no info, when that is pretty much what her case on me boils down to. The reason I suspect MF is because I don't think she was making her argument about me in good faith. I think she was trying to take advantage of that meta to put suspicion on me. So when she says things that seem to support this idea, you bet I'm going to say something about it.

Why is it that you apply the statement "In a game of this size the mafia would be playing fairly carefully, I think." only to MF and not to me?

Because you are playing pretty carefully. The way that you're defending yourself isn't loud or attention-grabby, just very measured, logical defenses poking holes in what MF is saying. I called it insistent simply because of when you did it, spending more time (and two posts) poking more holes in MF's case about you specifically when it'd become less relevant. Outwardly it does look reasonable and you can explain everything you say logically - but I expect that'd be the case whether you're town or mafia, because you're good player.

Again, I'm not at all sure I'm right about this, but it a hunch that I can't shake at the moment.

 

[Eifie]

I'm coming around to the idea that MF might actually be town here and I'm thinking a good move might be to just get my flip today in that case so she can get out of her dumb tunnel. :/ More on this later when I'm not phone posting in bed at 6:30 am but I wanted to get this thought out there in case people might comment on it before I wake up later.

 

[M&F]

I'm coming around to the idea that MF might actually be town here and I'm thinking a good move might be to just get my flip today in that case so she can get out of her dumb tunnel. :/ More on this later when I'm not phone posting in bed at 6:30 am but I wanted to get this thought out there in case people might comment on it before I wake up later.

And that would accomplish what exactly? If you're thinking I'm town, you flipping town would be, like, not an ideal look on Butterfree and not much else. Getting me out of my "dumb tunnel" when I'm saving you for later doesn't change a lot, does it?

(Not that I necessarily buy that you'd flip Town, of course; idly musing this when it'd not be very risky isn't super alignment-indicative.)

That said, I suppose I don't see the real disadvantage of you changing your vote to yourself either. Maybe it'll pull us into a tie so we can argue longer, or maybe some dumb ass scum will get egg on their faces by quickhammering!

 

[Eifie]

And that would accomplish what exactly? If you're thinking I'm town, you flipping town would be, like, not an ideal look on Butterfree and not much else. Getting me out of my "dumb tunnel" when I'm saving you for later doesn't change a lot, does it?

(Not that I necessarily buy that you'd flip Town, of course; idly musing this when it'd not be very risky isn't super alignment-indicative.)

That said, I suppose I don't see the real disadvantage of you changing your vote to yourself either. Maybe it'll pull us into a tie so we can argue longer, or maybe some dumb ass scum will get egg on their faces by quickhammering!

If you actually are town, then lynching you today is pretty much gg. Wolves can easily make me into a scapegoat for the mislynch tomorrow in lylo. If we flip me, while I try to remind everyone that maybe you could be town, then maybe there's a better chance? I'm not sure. I think one of me and you needs to be resolved today, because it seems to be a blocker on other discussion in the thread.

I am side-eyeing Butterfree a lot right now (will get into details in a bit), but I think it's unlikely that you and Butterfree are teamed. If the two of you were w/w, pretty much all you'd have to do is get rid of the other loud voice in the thread (me) and you'd basically be set. And that would be much easier to do by leaving me alone today and then NKing me than by putting yourselves in a position to look bad by driving my lynch. You seem to be unwilling to consider any worlds in which I am town, so resolving me might be the way to go to get discussion on the right path.

You know this isn't majority lynch, right?

I suppose an alternative to resolving one of us by lynching today is everyone agreeing on something like "the cop should investigate X tonight, and tomorrow should not speak up unless they get a guilty". (Note that I am not precluding either of us being the cop by suggesting this; the plan would still work fine in that case.) That would rely on us not trying to lynch the cop today and forcing them to out, and on the mafia not getting a lucky shot tonight.

 

[Eifie]

Because you are playing pretty carefully. The way that you're defending yourself isn't loud or attention-grabby, just very measured, logical defenses poking holes in what MF is saying. I called it insistent simply because of when you did it, spending more time (and two posts) poking more holes in MF's case about you specifically when it'd become less relevant. Outwardly it does look reasonable and you can explain everything you say logically - but I expect that'd be the case whether you're town or mafia, because you're good player.

Again, I'm not at all sure I'm right about this, but it a hunch that I can't shake at the moment.

How is doing something that will obviously call a lot of attention and suspicion toward me (see previous comment about tcodf meta) right at the beginning of the game "playing carefully"?

Also, hypothetically: if I had not made those two posts and had instead just posted #64, what would you have thought about that?

 

[Eifie]

Also, I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts on DarkAura.

@M&F and Butterfree in particular: pls answer :(

 

[Keldeo]

How extensions will be handled if the vote is tied at the deadline: I've decided to cap day extensions at 72 hours total (doubling the day length) so a tied vote at today's deadline will lead to a 24-hour extension. Another tie after that will lead to no one being killed.

Day 1 deadline is in approximately 1 hour. The vote list in #66 is still valid.

 

[Eifie]

At the moment a tie seems ideal, then. There are still things I want to talk about. If someone actually goes and breaks this tie right before EoD, then like, lol them.

Vote: Eifie

@Keldeo: updated votecount, please?

 

[Keldeo]

Updated vote count:

M&F (2): RedneckPhoenix (#51), I liek Squirtles (#55)
Eifie (2): Butterfree (#62), Eifie (#76)
RedneckPhoenix (1): M&F (#57)
Not voting: Flora, DarkAura (unvote #65)

Deadline in around 30 minutes.

 

[Keldeo]

Apologies, got pulled away.

With a tie, the deadline is extended. Day 1 ends in around 23.5 hours.

 

[Butterfree]

How is doing something that will obviously call a lot of attention and suspicion toward me (see previous comment about tcodf meta) right at the beginning of the game "playing carefully"?

Also, hypothetically: if I had not made those two posts and had instead just posted #64, what would you have thought about that?

I think we're dealing with two different sorts of careful here. You have been drawing general attention, obviously, what with being dominant in the conversation. But you're not careless. Your posts are very focused and carefully put together, you've got a level-headed explanation for everything, everything you do is rigorously backed up and defended. MF, by contrast, was visibly frustrated and fed up, refused to give much of a defense, kind of insulted the players - the sort of loud, obstructive behaviour that draws ire. That's what I was referring to when I said I felt scum would be playing more carefully. You've obviously not been doing that.

If you had not made those two posts, I would have felt less suspicious of you. I was feeling more towny on you after you first responded to me, and had started to lean towards MF, but then yeah, her posts struck me as genuine, and those two posts bugged me. (I admit part of it was also simply guessing that one of you was likely to be scum, though.)

As for DarkAura, I had to go back through the thread to even remember what she'd been posting, to be honest. But looking back, it is kind of interesting how first she voices suspicion of MF and then of you but doesn't really follow up with either of your answers. I'm not convinced it's necessarily suspicious, but maybe worth keeping an eye on. What's your thought process?

 

[I liek Squirtles]

DA's comments don't strike me as particularly scummy so far, but that could just be me.

RNP, though, strikes me as much scummier, with the sudden vote for M&F. If I learned something from the one (1) non-tcodf mafia game I played, is that the mafia prefer to latch onto bandwagons rather than start one. I realize I'm doing the exact same thing, but it's not unprompted (unlike when RNP did it). I'm also not satisfied with his justification for the vote.