Scientists say dolphins should be treated as 'non-human persons'

[ultraviolet]

Dolphins have been declared the world’s second most intelligent creatures after humans, with scientists suggesting they are so bright that they should be treated as “non-human persons”.

article

... that's really interesting! I mean it's always been known that dolphins are intelligent animals, but enough to be declared 'non-human persons'? I'm not really sure what to make of this.

except now I really want a dolphin penpal. :(

 

[Eloi]

Should the be tried for crimes, like gang rape or infanticide, as non-human persons?

 

[shy ♡]

Wrong! They're second after mice. Close enough.

Anyhow all animals should be non-human persons. Their intelligence is different but that doesn't make them any lesser than us. Unless we're ranking humans by intelligence, we shouldn't rank species by it either. :v

 

[Eloi]

Wrong! They're second after mice. Close enough.

Anyhow all animals should be non-human persons. Their intelligence is different but that doesn't make them any lesser than us. Unless we're ranking humans by intelligence, we shouldn't rank species by it either. :v

So, with that classification, what does that entail? Do we start applying laws to them? Do we stop telling jokes about them in fear of offending them? Does the classification of "non-human person" do anything for the animal?

 

[Music Dragon]

These creatures are vastly superior to us. In a perfect world, humans would be considered "non-dolphin persons".

 

[Eloi]

These creatures are vastly superior to us. In a perfect world, humans would be considered "non-dolphin persons".

Why are they "vastly superior"?

 

[Music Dragon]

Why are they "vastly superior"?

See, if you'd been a dolphin right now, you wouldn't be asking that question. Instead you'd be doing some crazy somersault backflips across the ocean, or protecting a drowning sailor from sharks, or teaching your kids how to use sponges... or something like that.

 

[Aisling]

Should the be tried for crimes, like gang rape or infanticide, as non-human persons?

Maybe if they do it to humans?

I would think they're responsible for their own species' actions against eachother, as far as crimes go. That seems like a no-brainer to me. I mean... they're still dolphins and we're still humans. To me this would just affect how we regard eachother, not that we're suddenly in charge of them or something (even if some people had already entitled themselves to that, by virtue of us being people).

 

[shy ♡]

So, with that classification, what does that entail? Do we start applying laws to them? Do we stop telling jokes about them in fear of offending them? Does the classification of "non-human person" do anything for the animal?

You're really taking this a bit too far. I don't think anyone other than you actually cares this much about it.

But let's say I did care about it, or anyone else did, and that the justice system would somehow be changed to incorporate dolphins. Trying dolphins in human courts for things dolphins do is ridiculous. Human courts are for humans, not dolphins. If there were intelligent aliens that came to earth we wouldn't try them in our court systems because they'd have their own justice system and would not require our own. In fact, attempting to inflict our justice system on them is rather patronizing. (Not to mention the fact that logistically it'd be a bit hard, fitting a dolphin in a court of law, and having them be tried by a jury of their peers...)

As for when a dolphin is harmed by a dolphin (which iirc is pretty rare?), you'd have to then give dolphins awards for all the time they'd saved human lives. As far as I'm concerned, the only impact this should have is how we think of them: not lesser. Different but equal. Using this definition of person to differentiate between human:

# Philosophy . a self-conscious or rational being.

Not necessarily a human.

 

[Eloi]

Maybe if they do it to humans?

I would think they're responsible for their own species' actions against eachother, as far as crimes go. That seems like a no-brainer to me. I mean... they're still dolphins and we're still humans. To me this would just affect how we regard eachother, not that we're suddenly in charge of them or something (even if some people had already entitled themselves to that, by virtue of us being people).

You're really taking this a bit too far. I don't think anyone other than you actually cares this much about it.

But let's say I did care about it, or anyone else did, and that the justice system would somehow be changed to incorporate dolphins. Trying dolphins in human courts for things dolphins do is ridiculous. Human courts are for humans, not dolphins. If there were intelligent aliens that came to earth we wouldn't try them in our court systems because they'd have their own justice system and would not require our own. In fact, attempting to inflict our justice system on them is rather patronizing. (Not to mention the fact that logistically it'd be a bit hard, fitting a dolphin in a court of law, and having them be tried by a jury of their peers...)

As for when a dolphin is harmed by a dolphin (which iirc is pretty rare?), you'd have to then give dolphins awards for all the time they'd saved human lives. As far as I'm concerned, the only impact this should have is how we think of them: not lesser. Different but equal. Using this definition of person to differentiate between human:

# Philosophy . a self-conscious or rational being.

Not necessarily a human.

So in other words: the new title means absolutely nothing in the real world, and is just puffery? That's what I presumed, wanted to make a through checking of this to see if I was right.

 

[Aisling]

So in other words: the new title means absolutely nothing in the real world, and is just puffery? That's what I presumed, wanted to make a through checking of this to see if I was right.

No, it means we need to find a way to actually seek consent from them before we take them out of the ocean and do studies on them and kill them, etc., not that they're suddenly under our justice system. Kind of like what PETA's been trying to do with every species ever, except with dolphins it's actually plausible because of their intelligence and abilities.

Think of it this way: If someone commits a crime in China, a US officer doesn't fly over to China to arrest them, and then bring them back here to try and sentence them, right? They're arrested, tried and sentenced in China. But at the same time, we can't just fly over to China and abduct a person from there and train them to do tricks at our amusement parks and stuff without the individual's consent, and maybe a passport. The same distinction is made between humans and dolphins as between two different countries. Double-especially because we don't have a mutual language yet with which we can solidly communicate with eachother. From the sound of things, though, once we do it'll get around with the other dolphins pretty quickly. After that point we'll start figuring out the details of our species' relationship.

 

[Eloi]

No, it means we need to find a way to actually seek consent from them before we take them out of the ocean and do studies on them and kill them, etc., not that they're suddenly under our justice system. Kind of like what PETA's been trying to do with every species ever, except with dolphins it's actually plausible because of their intelligence and abilities.

Think of it this way: If someone commits a crime in China, a US officer doesn't fly over to China to arrest them, and then bring them back here to try and sentence them, right? They're arrested, tried and sentenced in China. But at the same time, we can't just fly over to China and abduct a person from there and train them to do tricks at our amusement parks and stuff without the individual's consent, and maybe a passport. The same distinction is made between humans and dolphins as between two different countries. Double-especially because we don't have a mutual language yet with which we can solidly communicate with eachother. From the sound of things, though, once we do it'll get around with the other dolphins pretty quickly. After that point we'll start figuring out the details of our species' relationship.

Should we be worried if they say "So long and thanks for all the fish"?

 

[Aisling]

Should we be worried if they say "So long and thanks for all the fish"?

Very much so.

 

[Eloi]

Very much so.

Them singing it might ease the pain.

So long and thanks for all the fish
So sad that it should come to this
We tried to warn you all but oh dear?

You may not share our intellect
Which might explain your disrespect
For all the natural wonders that
grow around you

So long, so long and thanks
for all the fish

The world's about to be destroyed
There's no point getting all annoyed
Lie back and let the planet dissolve

Despite those nets of tuna fleets
We thought that most of you were sweet
Especially tiny tots and your
pregnant women

So long, so long, so long, so long, so long
So long, so long, so long, so long, so long

So long, so long and thanks
for all the fish

(yeah)

So long and thanks for all the fish
So sad that it should come to this
We tried to warn you all but oh dear?

(oh dear)

Despite those nets of tuna fleets
We thought that most of you were sweet
Especially tiny tots and your
pregnant women

So long, so long, so long, so long, so long
So long, so long, so long, so long, so long

So long, so long and thanks
for all the fish

 

[Cap'n Sofa]

Skip to #2 to find out why those trials would happen all the damn time.

 

[Eloi]

Skip to #2 to find out why those trials would happen all the damn time.

Awww, dammit, you linked Cracked. And I had stuff to do today.

Well you know what? BAM!

If you never been before, this is a great place to start.

If you have been before, look at all the shiiiiiny links that just want you to click them.

 

[Cap'n Sofa]

Awww, dammit, you linked Cracked. And I had stuff to do today.

Well you know what? BAM!

If you never been before, this is a great place to start.

If you have been before, look at all the shiiiiiny links that just want you to click them.

I have six TVTropes tabs open right now, actually. :P

Anyway, with that level of violence, there would be a crapton of dolphin trials. Also, how the hell are we supposed to get human-dolphin communication to work?

 

[Aisling]

Also, how the hell are we supposed to get human-dolphin communication to work?

It would probably develop off that rudimentary symbol-based language the article mentioned. Like Egyptian hieroglyphs, maybe more complex, if they're capable of processing it.

If you mean "how does a dolphin e-mail a human" or something, no idea, electronic communication would be a long way off. We'd have to make special buttons and stuff since they lack hands. Maybe it'd be sound-based or motion-based or something... Communication in person is probably what it's going to be limited to, though.

 

[Tailsy]

I think the real issue is that dolphins can't actually talk without borrowing childproof-capped bottles of medicine.

click-click-click-click...

 

[Aisling]

Oh! Morse code? That would work too. I didn't even think of that. That'd actually be a whole lot simpler.