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The Death Penalty

ultraviolet said:
The Lethal injection is about 40 Australian dollars (from memory) and it's relatively humane (ow, a needle... oh look, I'm dying).
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Which completely ignores the amount of time people spend on death row. It isn't as simple as "you're guilty *injection*", the prisoners have to spend years on death row so that nobody will present evidence against the verdict, and then they're murdered by the state.

I think that if that evidence has proven sufficiently that someone has raped, murdered, tortured people or molested children, then they deserve the Death Penalty.
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Why? So we can stoop to their level? Why not imprison them for the rest of their life so they'll actually be punished?

That being said, the last Australian killed by hanging was innocent. Oops.
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Wow, isn't the Death Penalty great!?

I'm kinda torn on this issue. I don't think that prison is enough, because too many rapists get out on parole with good behavior or whatever, then re-offend.
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Then they're put back in prison and won't be let out on parole again?

I don't see why you need to resort to an archaic and expensive form of 'punishment', when a more fitting and humane way could easily be used instead.
 
I agree. If they're killed because they killed others, that we're just stooping to their level. Life in prison is more humane than killing the criminal.
 
I believe in reformation not retribution; and the death penalty is a function of retribution.

Can you imagine the cost?
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The financial cost of justice is always irrelevant.
 
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I'm totally against the death penalty. I do think that prison sentences should be harsher for more violent crimes (like, "life" actually meaning "life"), though.
I guess like lots of things, if you've been brought up accepting it as normal, it'll stay normal to you, but if not, it just seems brutal, barbaric, unfair and unnessesary.

But, uh, I've just scanned the thread and I don't think anyone's brought this up yet, so I thought I should: At least in the USA, the requirements for the death penalty are horrendously unjust. I forget my source (I'll try and find it >.>), but you're much more likely to get the death penalty if you kill a white person than a black person or a woman rather than a man. That's making a mockery of the concept of justice.

The point isn't to punish the criminals; it's to protect others. At any rate, it should at least stay in law, even if disused, because it's a nice deterrent.
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No, it's not. Dammit, I don't have a link here either (I did a massive debate on this in ethics last year), but there is statistically more violent crime in states/countries with the death penalty then those where it has been abolished. Is it because the government kills people? I don't know.
 
I am very passionately opposed to the death penalty.

Honestly? It's not really because prison can actually help the criminal reform or because death penalty is in the end more expensive than life or because an innocent person might be killed or because killing them is sinking to their level. It's not much for any logical reason at all, even though I've heard and agree with plenty of such reasons. In the end it's pretty much for the same reason as why any arachnophobe with some basic empathy for other human beings would not wish anyone to be thrown into a pit of huge spiders.

See, the way I see it, death penalty is one of the most utterly sick and twisted things that my mind can comprehend. To round people up in a place where they wait for a set day when they know that they are going to die. Their lives lead up to nothing at all. They have no purpose. They have no future. They can only wait for that date written on their papers, at which time they will be escorted into a room and killed. Painless? Even if it were, what would it matter? Death is one thing. Being consciously aware that you are about to die and can't do anything to prevent it is as far as I'm concerned the absolute most frightening situation in existence. I can't wish that on anyone, no matter how sick and twisted they are or what they have done, for much the same reason as I think most people today would agree that it is not right to torture a murderer who tortured his victims. It's just a sick, cruel act to give the sadistic and vengeful some personal satisfaction.

Somebody brought up that the family of the victim of a brutal murder shouldn't have to pay money for the killer's food. Well, let me tell you that if I were that family, I would gladly pay out of my own pocket specifically to spare that particular killer the death penalty. And if he were sentenced to death anyway, it would make me feel sick to my stomach to think of it. I would weep on the day of his execution. I would protest the death penalty even more heatedly than I do now.

I don't mind the idea of giving a prisoner the choice to die if they get a life sentence, because unlike death penalty as it is ordinarily understood, the prisoner has the power to affect their situation, and that alone prevents it from making my heart sink into a bottomless pit of psychological horror. Then by all means let them die soon, though, and don't have them wait for years for a scheduled date.

But none of this is really relevant to any sort of debate. After all, I am very well aware that I'm just arguing from personal distaste here. As I said, there are also many good logical reasons for being against the death penalty which have already been brought up (particularly, I very much agree with Ruby on reformation rather than retribution). What I would like to contribute is mostly two things:

1) Consider that there is more to death penalty than just the dying part. The prisoner's situation between the verdict and the time the sentence is carried out is extremely psychologically disturbing, and this fact does not get enough attention in debates about the death penalty. It may well be that most do not personally find the thought of it quite as absolutely sick, twisted and terrifying as I do, but please at least consider it.
2) A grief-ridden family should rightfully not find any compensation in knowing that the person responsible for the act is dead or was made to suffer. If I spoke to any family member of a murder victim and they told me they felt better to know that the killer was sentenced to death, I couldn't help but judge that family member to be something of a sadist. It doesn't bring the dead person back or undo whatever else the killer may have done to them; the only reason one would feel better to know that the killer was dead (rather than permanently behind bars) is pure hatred and desire for revenge, feelings that one would normally consider to be wrong. As I said, I would personally feel far worse to know that someone who killed my family was sentenced to death.

That's all.
 
Butterfree said:
I don't mind the idea of giving a prisoner the choice to die if they get a life sentence, because unlike death penalty as it is ordinarily understood, the prisoner has the power to affect their situation, and that alone prevents it from making my heart sink into a bottomless pit of psychological horror. Then by all means let them die soon, though, and don't have them wait for years for a scheduled date.
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I disagree with this, too. Mostly because it's the easy way out and if you murdered/tortured/raped someone, I don't think it's fair for the person to simply die painlessly, ridding them of the knowledge and responsibility of what they have done.

Also because anyone with a life sentence would definitly consider taking the easy option - regardless of whether they are actually guilty or not.

And finally because a person who chooses to be killed by the government is still being killed by the government, which I still think is very wrong.
 
2) A grief-ridden family should rightfully not find any compensation in knowing that the person responsible for the act is dead or was made to suffer. If I spoke to any family member of a murder victim and they told me they felt better to know that the killer was sentenced to death, I couldn't help but judge that family member to be something of a sadist. It doesn't bring the dead person back or undo whatever else the killer may have done to them; the only reason one would feel better to know that the killer was dead (rather than permanently behind bars) is pure hatred and desire for revenge, feelings that one would normally consider to be wrong. As I said, I would personally feel far worse to know that someone who killed my family was sentenced to death.
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My uncle was killed in a car crash by a drunken man in a four-wheel drive who was on the wrong side of the road. He didn't go to prison and he didn't even apologise to our family.

Now I know that giving the Death Penalty to that is just ridiculous, but if he had gone to prison, then our family would feel much better knowing that he can't do that to someone else, and I'm sure the families of victims of murder or rape would feel the same way. I don't see it as 'you killed someone, so we'll kill you back', but as protection for others. Too many rapists/killers/etc get out on parole or good behavior and re-offend.

I don't mind the idea of giving a prisoner the choice to die if they get a life sentence, because unlike death penalty as it is ordinarily understood, the prisoner has the power to affect their situation, and that alone prevents it from making my heart sink into a bottomless pit of psychological horror. Then by all means let them die soon, though, and don't have them wait for years for a scheduled date.
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I agree with this though. I don't understand why they have people waiting for death anyway, it's ridiculous.
 
ultraviolet said:
Too many rapists/killers/etc get out on parole or good behavior and re-offend.
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You can't use this as an argument because you're saying that even with the death penalty in place as it is today, too many rapists/killers/etc still get out on parole or good behavior and re-offend. How would getting rid of the death penalty and replacing it with LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE (That means they don't get out people!) affect this? Those people getting out is just another example of how the legal system isn't perfect.

Don't give me any of that "it's protecting others" BS.
 
I've yet to understand how somebody could be for abortion for whatever reason, but be against the death penalty. I also have yet to understand how somebody could be against abortion for whatever reason, but be all for the death penalty. The only word that comes to my mind when I think about it is hypocrisy.
 
Wymsy said:
I've yet to understand how somebody could be for abortion for whatever reason, but be against the death penalty. I also have yet to understand how somebody could be against abortion for whatever reason, but be all for the death penalty. The only word that comes to my mind when I think about it is hypocrisy.
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It's because there's a difference between killing a sentient living being and a clump of cells.
 
Wymsy said:
I've yet to understand how somebody could be for abortion for whatever reason, but be against the death penalty. I also have yet to understand how somebody could be against abortion for whatever reason, but be all for the death penalty. The only word that comes to my mind when I think about it is hypocrisy.
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I believe that abortion =/= killing a human being, just something that could become one, and is no worse then killing a sperm cell or an egg.

I believe the death penalty = killing a human being. But abortion is in a different debate, so don't bring it up.
 
warning: this post is not coherent, skip it if you want but I want to say my opinion

I think that prison should heal the criminals, i.e., steps should be done to make sure we can safely get them out, and they will not commit the crime again. Those who break the law (severely) are obviously very damaged people, people that we should try to fix. We should feel sorry for the criminals. Obviously, something bad must have happened to motivate them to commit this crime, whether lack of money, people mistreating them, being beaten as a child, etc. Prison as it is now doesn't really work right. I read somewhere that one out of three people that leave prison get sent back fairly quickly. This shouldn't be happening. We should try to adjust these people so that they CAN live a normal life. In the case of rape, the solution is easy: castration. In the case of brutal killings, trying to heal the murderer is far, far, more difficult, to the point where it's almost futile. I have no idea how the government would make a program like this, but they should try to find a way somehow.

Meaning that I am against the death penalty, as it doesn't help with anything.
 
Zeta Reticuli said:
warning: this post is not coherent, skip it if you want but I want to say my opinion

I think that prison should heal the criminals, i.e., steps should be done to make sure we can safely get them out, and they will not commit the crime again. Those who break the law (severely) are obviously very damaged people, people that we should try to fix. We should feel sorry for the criminals. Obviously, something bad must have happened to motivate them to commit this crime, whether lack of money, people mistreating them, being beaten as a child, etc. Prison as it is now doesn't really work right. I read somewhere that one out of three people that leave prison get sent back fairly quickly. This shouldn't be happening. We should try to adjust these people so that they CAN live a normal life. In the case of rape, the solution is easy: castration. In the case of brutal killings, trying to heal the murderer is far, far, more difficult, to the point where it's almost futile. I have no idea how the government would make a program like this, but they should try to find a way somehow.

Meaning that I am against the death penalty, as it doesn't help with anything.
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I don't necessarily agree with the idea of a program where the gov tries to change people's behavior and then let them out if they pass a test or something. It is a nice idea, but there are such people as sociopaths who are plain evil and cannot be changed. In a program like you describe, the people that happen to be evil murderers and good actors could get out, which is why I prefer life without parole.

There will always be those people who are sentenced to life and genuinely do feel remorse and would not harm another person if they get out, the problem is, you just can't tell weather or not this is the case.
 
I know, that's the problem. :(

I don't know how to make this happen, but I think it needs to happen... somehow... ugghhgggh I don't know D:
 
At any rate, the ability to say "we can put you to death" is useful, even if it's not used. Indeed, the best use is as a deterrent- as a punishment, it's spectacularly bad. Perhaps a legal allowance but disuse would work best, so that criminals would take into mind that the death penalty existed, but none would actually be executed? Think polishing a gun you aren't going to use.
 
Crazy Weavile said:
At any rate, the ability to say "we can put you to death" is useful, even if it's not used. Indeed, the best use is as a deterrent- as a punishment, it's spectacularly bad. Perhaps a legal allowance but disuse would work best, so that criminals would take into mind that the death penalty existed, but none would actually be executed? Think polishing a gun you aren't going to use.
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Yes but if you don't use it then people no you won't, and it doesn't work.

If you do use it then you're killing someone. :/

And people murder people all the time, the death penalty doesn't seem to be stopping them.
 
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