Theism, Religion and Lack thereof

[opaltiger]

Protestants vs. Catholics Never got deadly

For your sake I hope you never say this to someone from Northern Ireland.

Please, if you're going to make claims, do some research.

 

[Pwnemon]

No, she said Northern Ireland Vs. Ireland somewhere else.

 

[Minish]

Please explain.

No it wasn't just that, it was that, or they were forced or killed to do so.

For a start, Christianisation in most countries was a very, very slow process. Nobody just randomly changed their beliefs unless they were a political leader saying they had for political purposes.

In rural areas, away from the conquering and massacring and all the other stuff I'm sure you've heard of, most people born pagan died pagan, with the generations being exposed to both Christian and pagan practices, symbols, places of worship etc. until gradually the amount of the first outweighed the second. People changing their beliefs dramatically is something we do today, where people are exposed to wildly differing beliefs in day-to-day life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianization

I did not say that it was the "root of all evil". Not only is it what religion is used for, it's what the religious believe that is the problem. No, there are some good things religion has brought, the ideals of self meditation being one of them.

Also I mentioned terrorism in terms of the Taliban and other religious forms of terrorism. I love how you picked terrorism out of all those issues.

I'm not saying it's just what religion is used for - it's a combination of both, obviously. But Muslims, Jews and Christians all follow Abrahamic faiths that have very similar features, and do you see a whole lot of Islamic fundamentalist attacks on Hindu nations, Buddhist nations? It's political. It's about details that have nothing to do with morals as much as it's to do with people who just happen to disagree with your beliefs.

People were Christianised because it was harder to control a country's people when they had such different customs and beliefs. Most religious terrorism today isn't exactly far from that...

I know hardly anything about the other two issues you mentioned. The reason I picked terrorism out was because you didn't specify what you were talking about.

Uhh... Pwnemon? The Troubles have got nothing to do with "Northern Ireland vrs. Ireland" in like, any way, and opaltiger's referring to you saying "never got deadly" which is just a ridiculously misinformed statement to make.

 

[Autumn]

Thirty Years War, Taipeng Rebellion, the Islamic notion of Jihad, the Jewish Milkhemet Mitzvah, the Christian Milites Christi, the Holocaust Not religious either

?!

 

[Phantom]

the Spanish Conquistadores Not in the name of religion

Please do research. They tried to convert many natives, creating missions.

For a start, Christianisation in most countries was a very, very slow process. Nobody just randomly changed their beliefs unless they were a political leader saying they had for political purposes.

One I never said the speed in which they converted. Two what political purposes? Conversion is conversion! I was stating that people (eventually for you literal folks) eventually left their gods for another one, some were converted quickly, others took some, and at times violent, persuasion.

do you see a whole lot of Islamic fundamentalist attacks on Hindu nations, Buddhist nations?

YES! Again people do your research! Look up Persecution of Hindus

For Buddhism, ever even heard of Bangladesh? The Buddhist communities of Bangladesh are under pressure from the military and police not to practice Buddhism, and Buddhists have suffered abuse, arrest, and even rapes. The government encourages Muslim settlement in Buddhist areas, as part of its campaign to promote Islam. Torture and murder of Buddhists is a frequent occurrence.

My friend [URL="http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/music/23274364.html?location_refer=Most%20Emailed:Homepage:8]"Palbasha[/URL] is from Bangladesh, *laughs* in fact she is famous there. She went to high school here in the US.

People were Christianised because it was harder to control a country's people when they had such different customs and beliefs. Most religious terrorism today isn't exactly far from that...

Exactly one of the reasons why I say faith is dangerous.


Between 1969 and 2001, 3,526 people were killed as a result of the Troubles.


PWNEMON! RESEARCH! know what you are talking about before you post it! Please! Holocaust not religious???? No deaths because of the disputes in Ireland??? Damn, do you live in a box????

"IF I ONLY HAD A BRAIN!"

You could not have said it any better.

 

[Pwnemon]

1) I never said no deaths from Ireland vs. Northern Ireland.

2) Conversion would fall more under Spanish Inquisition.

 

[Phantom]

1) I never said no deaths from Ireland vs. Northern Ireland.

Yes, yes you did.

Protestants vs. Catholics Never got deadly

I said Ireland vs Northern Ireland because that is the locations in which the Troubles occur, let me make myself more blunt in saying the Troubles rather than the previous. But it is INDEED Protestant vs. Catholic. DO. YOUR. RESEARCH!

2) Conversion would fall more under Spanish Inquisition.

The Conquistadors' mission was to find gold, convert new souls to Christianity, and claim new territories for the King and the glory of their country.

 

[Pwnemon]

Well, all I could assume when you said Protestant Versus catholic and Northern Ireland were that they were two separate events and all I could think of was the issues with the Church of England in the seventeenth century. Thanks for informing me that you were repeating yourself, yes the troubles were deadly.

 

[Phantom]

Oh there were issues other places when you consider Protestant vs Catholic.

In 16th Century France there was a succession of wars between Roman Catholics and Protestants (Hugenots primarily). These series of wars were known as the Wars of Religion.

In the first half of the 17th century, the German states, Scandinavia (Sweden, primarily) and Poland were beset by religious warfare. Roman Catholicism and Protestantism figured in the opposing sides of this conflict, though Catholic France did take the side of the Protestants but purely for political reasons.

 

[Tarvos]

Pwnemon, I don't care if you are a tea party Christian, but even in that case, get your facts right. There's nothing more frustrating in a debate than someone who obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. At least go with a neat, official version of events sanctioned by more than the brainwashed conservative Christian elite - i.e. not Fox News.

Try some BBC every once in a while. They ain't perfect, but it's a whole lot more reputable than where you get your info from.

 

[Minish]

YES! Again people do your research! Look up Persecution of Hindus

For Buddhism, ever even heard of Bangladesh? The Buddhist communities of Bangladesh are under pressure from the military and police not to practice Buddhism, and Buddhists have suffered abuse, arrest, and even rapes. The government encourages Muslim settlement in Buddhist areas, as part of its campaign to promote Islam. Torture and murder of Buddhists is a frequent occurrence.

Bugger... I really do need to do my research. This is why I need to learn to carry on looking outside mainstream front page news >_>

But I still don't feel like, if we could, erasing religion would do that much good. Bloodthirsty people who want to control and have major delusions of grandeur would still exist even without religion and there would just be other excuses. Surely it's less a case of "do things in God's way" and more "do things in my way" with fundamentalists?

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

Protestants vs. Catholics Never got deadly

The Troubles in Northern Ireland were Protestant vs. Catholic. There has never been an armed conflict between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

IF I ONLY HAD A BRAIN!

I think the first quote leads quite rationally into this one.

EDIT:

I said Ireland vs Northern Ireland because that is the locations in which the Troubles occur, let me make myself more blunt in saying the Troubles rather than the previous. But it is INDEED Protestant vs. Catholic. DO. YOUR. RESEARCH!

I like you, so it pains me to lump you in with Pwnemon, but there has never been an armed conflict between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

 

[Pwnemon]

Cirrus, your argument reminds me of something I saw in the comic book PS238. This kid named Tyler has grown up around superheroes his whole life and he has none. Then he gets chosen to decide whether humans should continue having them or if they should go away for a couple hundred years. The argument from one of his friends is that no matter why, whether they have powers or not, there will always be strong and weak. And bad strong people will try to control others no matter what the reason. I would link to it but I don't think the author has put it on the internet yet and I'm too lazy to look for the issue. It's #33 if you want to check.

 

[Phantom]

Ah TES my apologies, though there was armed conflict I did not, and rather stupidly, clarify what is meant by this armed conflict. By armed conflict I assume you mean a war, though I consider armed conflict to be the use of weapons in a conflict, so you are correct; there has never been true armed conflict between the two, but there has been a conflict between the two... Argh, I seem to be lacking the proper words to explain myself, hopefully you can get what the hell I am trying to say. There was never armed conflict, by the definition, but rather... armed "struggle".

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

Ah TES my apologies, though there was armed conflict I did not, and rather stupidly, clarify what is meant by this armed conflict. By armed conflict I assume you mean a war, though I consider armed conflict to be the use of weapons in a conflict, so you are correct; there has never been true armed conflict between the two, but there has been a conflict between the two... Argh, I seem to be lacking the proper words to explain myself, hopefully you can get what the hell I am trying to say. There was never armed conflict, by the definition, but rather... armed "struggle".

But there wasn't. The worst conflict between Ireland and Northern Ireland was their politicians bad-mouthing each other. You may want to recheck your sources.

 

[Phantom]

One source, but let's not get off topic, we were on religion yes?

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

One source, but let's not get off topic, we were on religion yes?

The Irish Civil War was between the IRA and the Free State Armed Forces. Irish nationalists versus the Irish government. Northern Ireland wasn't involved.

And forgive me for having a bone to pick with people who misrepresent my country's history, especially when its in relation to the Civil War and the Troubles.

EDIT: I just realised I've been posting about the Troubles with Gerry Adams as my avatar. Nice.

 

[Phantom]

EDIT: I just realised I've been posting about the Troubles with Gerry Adams as my avatar. Nice.

Now that you point it out... yeah, nice.

Again, it appears as though I was incorrect. Apology is in order. Nonetheless back to the point, there is strong tension between Catholics and Protestants, which has often become violent.

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

Now that you point it out... yeah, nice.

Again, it appears as though I was incorrect. Apology is in order. Nonetheless back to the point, there is strong tension between Catholics and Protestants, which has often become violent.

The Omagh bombing in particular has always stood out in my memory.

 

[Phantom]

The Omagh bombing in particular has always stood out in my memory.

Sadly I do not know much about the Omagh bombing, but I have heard a bit. But not enough to make any statements about it.