Transgender children

[Mirry]

I have been reading some rather interesting discussions on this topic lately, and was wondering what your opinion was on the matter. If a child is convinced that he/she is of the opposite gender, how should a parent handle this situation? Should the parent try to have the child embrace his/her biological gender, or support the child completely in his/her endeavor to become the opposite sex?

I suppose integral to this situation is whether a child is capable of fully understanding and making a decision about his/her psychological gender. However, if the child waits until adulthood to begin his/her transformation if he/she finds that he/she is indeed transgender, this could have damaging psychological effects not to mention that hormone treatments are significantly less effective than if they are begun in one's childhood. I think it is rather important that a person look like his/her corresponding gender in order to be fully accepted in society.

There have been many documented cases of parents who try to force gender roles on their transgender children, with depression and suicide being the results. But how does one make the distinction between whether a child is simply toying with the idea of being the opposite gender, or truly is the opposite gender, while avoiding harmful side-effects?

 

[Dewgong]

I'm not sure about that last question, but if the child really is convinced they're not their biological gender, the parents should listen.

 

[Mirry]

I agree... I guess my confusion lies in how one can tell if a child "really is convinced" or not.

 

[Dewgong]

I guess they would have to be a little older... I would have trouble believing a five year old.

 

[octobr]

whether a child is capable of fully understanding and making a decision about his/her psychological gender

This is silly, a kid doesn't really even know real gender roles as presented by society, wouldn't they be more prone to knowing their psychological gender? I mean to say -- they aren't under the pressure a teenager or adult might be, given social encouragement to 'fit in' and whatnot. Kids are just kids, they don't care, they wanna be who they are.

 

[Dewgong]

Ah... Verne made a good point. D:

I don't have anything to say except I agree with that over what I said earlier, I didn't think of it that way.

 

[Mirry]

But isn't society always imposing gender roles upon everyone from the moment they exit their mother's wombs? As was being touched upon in the "differences between men and women" thread, if it's a baby boy its room will be decked out with blue or camouflage with trains and other "boy things"; if it's a girl, with pink and dolls and "girl things".

 

[surskitty]

... I always had train- or dinosaur-themed stuff....

 

[Mirry]

I'm assuming that surskitty is female?

I liked dragons and dinosaurs when I was little, too... I don't think society finds it as strange to see a girl playing with things like that, although perhaps labeled "boy things", than it does to see a boy playing with Barbie dolls or something. But anyway, it's beside the point... I'm just trying to say that I think children do know something about gender roles, even if they aren't as worried about "fitting in" as teenagers or adults.

 

[Zhorken]

From what I can tell, young boys have gender roles pressed upon them more; I was always able to play "boy" games with girls, but my mom didn't let me watch Sailor Moon, girls excluded me from girlier games, etc.

I guess this holds true for all ages; women are okay in suits* and but men don't get dresses, etc.

* here, at least, and I'd assume it'd hold for other less-than-traditional places, though it might not be true in, say, Alabama.

EDIT 2012-04-08: I'M DISOWNING THIS POST

 

[surskitty]

However, it's worth noting that although gender roles are more firmly and obviously pressed upon boys, they're still pretty damn noticeable against girls, too.

Go count girls in math, science, programming.

 

[see ya]

This is silly, a kid doesn't really even know real gender roles as presented by society, wouldn't they be more prone to knowing their psychological gender? I mean to say -- they aren't under the pressure a teenager or adult might be, given social encouragement to 'fit in' and whatnot. Kids are just kids, they don't care, they wanna be who they are.

True, but kids don't really know about much else, either. Most kids' minds are fickle and far from being fully developed and able to make rational decisions, especially under the age of 8. Hell, I remember having phases as a young kid where I wanted to be a boy. And here I am as an adult, perfectly content to be female.

That's what makes this a tricky issue. If you jump the gun and label the kid a "tranny" when it turns out to have been just a phase or passing idea, psychological damage. If you wait too long and force gender roles on a kid who really is transsexual, psychological damage.

I guess the thing would be to look for persisting behavior and staying out of it, for the most part, and maybe discussing it if the kid trusts you enough. Of course, a good deal of parents will never be able to because they're stupid like that. -_-

 

[Zhorken]

However, it's worth noting that although gender roles are more firmly and obviously pressed upon boys, they're still pretty damn noticeable against girls, too.

Go count girls in math, science, programming.

Oh, of course. I was going to mention that but I got distracted. :(

 

[Mirry]

That's what makes this a tricky issue. If you jump the gun and label the kid a "tranny" when it turns out to have been just a phase or passing idea, psychological damage. If you wait too long and force gender roles on a kid who really is transsexual, psychological damage.

This is basically my dilemma, except you worded it better. XD If the kid is trying to kill himself because of not being accepted as his "true" gender (this has apparently happened in some cases), then I would definitely be willing at that point to help him transition to the opposite sex. Only problem with that is that it would be infinitely better to be able to figure out the child's true feelings before he does something that drastic. :3

Even if he is being sincere, I probably wouldn't be convinced if a young boy came up and flat out told me, "I'm a girl". I would probably first think that he was just confused about the definitions of the terms "boy" and "girl"; if I determined that he was not, then I would be inclined to think that he wasn't being serious but was just contemplating the idea or trying to mess with me. I'm not entirely sure at what point I would feel absolutely certain that he felt he really was a girl, which is my problem. Because I would want to be 100% certain that I was making the right move before doing something as big as changing the child's gender.

So I guess the question goes beyond "Are children capable of making such a decision"? Assuming the answer is yes, then it becomes "How do you know if the child is actually making a decision"?

 

[octobr]

That's what makes this a tricky issue. If you jump the gun and label the kid a "tranny" when it turns out to have been just a phase or passing idea, psychological damage. If you wait too long and force gender roles on a kid who really is transsexual, psychological damage.

It'd do anyone psych damage if you call them a tranny -- it's an inherently insulting word.

(Pst, don't use it)



@ People talking about kids' abilities to make the decision -- but it's also easier for kids to try things out. I mean, kids play soccer for a week and call it quits, no one cares. That's the great thing about 'em, if you let your little boy wear a skirt to school he'll either go 'this is it, mom, this is what I want' or reject it in one of two ways: either 'that wasn't what I had thought, I don't really care' or 'damn, mom actually let me do it, it's not as fun to annoy her with it anymore.'

Gender roles as a child and gender roles as an adult are significantly different in fluidity and how they are enforced. Gender roles for chilluns are more what you play with, who you look up to, the likes -- you don't have things like breasts or muscles to say who is who immediately, the most you have is hair which isn't particularly identifying in the first place. And you haven't forged long-lasting impressions yet, so you can still change your mind and not leave people jarred.

So although the gender roles surely are pressed upon kids, they also have an entirely different set, which lately are being more consistently challenged as little boys grab tickle me elmos and little girls are playing metroid on their nintendo ds.

The neat thing is that now we have more than just the regular adult transsexual therapy: in addition to surgeries, hormone replacement, etc, you can, for kids, essentially delay their puberty, leaving (biological) girls with flat chests and straight hips and boys with a leaner body and higher voices. With kids it is sometimes best to just try it and see how it fits, and this really proposes a great option. (also it leaves the growth plates suspended, which means if they decide to take hormones they'll actually grow to an average height for their desired gender, which, actually, plays a big part in the identity match-up.)

 

[see ya]

It'd do anyone psych damage if you call them a tranny -- it's an inherently insulting word.

(Pst, don't use it)



@ People talking about kids' abilities to make the decision -- but it's also easier for kids to try things out. I mean, kids play soccer for a week and call it quits, no one cares. That's the great thing about 'em, if you let your little boy wear a skirt to school he'll either go 'this is it, mom, this is what I want' or reject it in one of two ways: either 'that wasn't what I had thought, I don't really care' or 'damn, mom actually let me do it, it's not as fun to annoy her with it anymore.'

Gender roles as a child and gender roles as an adult are significantly different in fluidity and how they are enforced. Gender roles for chilluns are more what you play with, who you look up to, the likes -- you don't have things like breasts or muscles to say who is who immediately, the most you have is hair which isn't particularly identifying in the first place. And you haven't forged long-lasting impressions yet, so you can still change your mind and not leave people jarred.

So although the gender roles surely are pressed upon kids, they also have an entirely different set, which lately are being more consistently challenged as little boys grab tickle me elmos and little girls are playing metroid on their nintendo ds.

The neat thing is that now we have more than just the regular adult transsexual therapy: in addition to surgeries, hormone replacement, etc, you can, for kids, essentially delay their puberty, leaving (biological) girls with flat chests and straight hips and boys with a leaner body and higher voices. With kids it is sometimes best to just try it and see how it fits, and this really proposes a great option. (also it leaves the growth plates suspended, which means if they decide to take hormones they'll actually grow to an average height for their desired gender, which, actually, plays a big part in the identity match-up.)

Well, you know what I mean about the "tranny" thing: Taking it too seriously too soon, leaving the child even more confused than when he/she started.

And the other thing: That's the thing. Kids don't really have a grasp of what gender really is or means until they're much older. It's more than "I want to wear a skirt" or "I like hanging out with boys more." Transsexuality is the persisting feeling that they are in the wrong body, so to speak, like they were never meant to be the gender they are.

I'm not saying that no child can make this decision. I'm saying that it's to be approached with caution, because even if a young kid says that's what they want, it's no guaruntee they'll stick with it. Then again, there is no harm in letting them try for a while. And the problem with your last paragraph, while it's a great idea, is probably also very expensive and inaccessible to most people (Correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm judging by the horridly expensive current state of American health care.) There's also that some people can't take hormones because of medical issues, but that's getting off-topic.

 

[octobr]

Well, you know what I mean about the "tranny" thing: Taking it too seriously too soon, leaving the child even more confused than when he/she started.

And the other thing: That's the thing. Kids don't really have a grasp of what gender really is or means until they're much older. It's more than "I want to wear a skirt" or "I like hanging out with boys more." Transsexuality is the persisting feeling that they are in the wrong body, so to speak, like they were never meant to be the gender they are.

Uh...uh-huh, I'm pretty sure I got that one.

I'm not saying that no child can make this decision. I'm saying that it's to be approached with caution, because even if a young kid says that's what they want, it's no guaruntee they'll stick with it. Then again, there is no harm in letting them try for a while. And the problem with your last paragraph, while it's a great idea, is probably also very expensive and inaccessible to most people (Correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm judging by the horridly expensive current state of American health care.) There's also that some people can't take hormones because of medical issues, but that's getting off-topic.

Well, yes, of course it needs caution. It's just as bad to force the wrong gender roles because you think your kid is confused as it is to force wrong gender roles cause you can't tolerate that your kid does have gender issues.

(I haven't the slightest what the general cost of HRT or the like is, actually. Let me go check my sources)

 

[#1 bro]

if my teenage kid asked me if he/she could get a sex change, I'd just be like "when you're eighteen, and responsible, go ahead". I mean, yes, it would be frustrating being trapped in the wrong body for x years until you become eighteen, but I can't imagine that it wouldn't be equally frustrating either a) having everyone know you're a transsexual or b) having to hide a secret from everyone.

So... yeah.

 

[octobr]

if my teenage kid asked me if he/she could get a sex change, I'd just be like "when you're eighteen, and responsible, go ahead". I mean, yes, it would be frustrating being trapped in the wrong body for x years until you become eighteen, but I can't imagine that it wouldn't be equally frustrating either a) having everyone know you're a transsexual or b) having to hide a secret from everyone.

So... yeah.

A and B are gonna happen either way, transition or no. You still know personally that your body is wrong, and you might disclose to friends just to get it off your chest -- so you're still keeping a secret, and you're still known as that trans kid for a few. If it doesn't happen now, it'll happen later.



ALSO HRT apparently isn't too horrible, depending on your insurance! http://community.livejournal.com/ftm/5481977.html Acourse this is only the female-to-male side of the spectrum.

 

[Minish]

Many children, especially girls, want to be boys. I was one of them, and all the tomboyish girls not afraid to get dirty in the mud were the same - they'd rather be boys so they wouldn't feel awkward anymore.

A young girl telling this to her parents could easily be misunderstood. I'm sure this is just a child wishing gender roles didn't exist, around the time people start looking down on them for playing with boys and not playing with dolls more. :/ That kind of stuff.

I don't think it's possible for a child to completely communicate with their parent in a clear enough way to explain what they feel.

Besides, when you're a child, again, especially a girl, you know you're having periods soon... your chest starts hurting... most girls I know were terrified of growing up and would much rather be a boy, but they're still completely 'girly'.

I think anyone should wait until they're a teenager, at least around thirteen or fourteen, before wondering seriously about it. A parent should listen to what their child has to say though, just take it with a pinch of salt.