US Department of Justice to defend DOMA

[FluffyGryphon]

There's a reason I never voted for the guy. Democrats and Republicans are essentially cut from the same mold. They're media-funded, have very similar goals, and always seem to do a complete about-face when it comes to their written/spoken ideals.

I'll never support a majority party and consider anyone that does a complete toolbox.

 

[Dewgong]

loopdidoop good job obama

 

[Bluberry Bat]

God dammit. And there goes the VERY LAST flicker of hope for the country. Derp de Derp America Derp. Hurr change we need. Goed spel Obama.

 

[Dinru]

Derp de Derp America Derp. Hurr change we need. Goed spel Obama.

May I sig this please?

And Obama... *sigh* I'm getting tired of all of this bait-and-switch and false hope. First California, now Obama. And, the whole "w00t 6 down 44 to go!!1! (or was it 4 and 46?)" stuff. 44/46 is too much. It's just... all too much. Grr. Bah. No. I just... no.

 

[Aura Cobalt]

Two things.

Are you sure that site was credible? That whole thing was so biased. *Puts up flame sheild*

Why should sexuality and race be treated the same way? The whole "Obama's the first black president and he's being homophobic ZOMG the irony" thing is total bull. At least you can change your sexuality. At least you are not born one way or the other. Jeez people. I really don't get your logic. *Reinforces flame sheild*

And no, I don't care that most people on this forum hate me.

 

[opaltiger]

If it were fake the government would be denying it all over the place. Sure, I hope it is, but I'm not deluding myself.

The whole "Obama's the first black president and he's being homophobic ZOMG the irony" thing is total bull.

Obama being elected is one of most obvious signs of the decline in racial discrimination in the US. His defending DOMA is in support of discrimination based on sexual orientation. Unless you are going to tell me the latter is somehow less important, in which case you can just fuck off, then yes, we have a nice case of irony.

At least you can change your sexuality. At least you are not born one way or the other.

No. No, you cannot. Perhaps you are not born one way or the other, but you cannot change your sexual orientation. Deny, suppress, yes, but not change.

ETA: also I'd like to know how that article is biased, beyond rewording the legal language.

 

[Bluberry Bat]

Two things.

Are you sure that site was credible? That whole thing was so biased. *Puts up flame sheild*

Why should sexuality and race be treated the same way? The whole "Obama's the first black president and he's being homophobic ZOMG the irony" thing is total bull. At least you can change your sexuality. At least you are not born one way or the other. Jeez people. I really don't get your logic. *Reinforces flame sheild*

.........No. No you can not you ignorant fool. Your sexuality is just as ingrained and set as your race and acting any differently is a lie. Noone goes out, weighs all the options, and DECIDES what they're attracted to or turned on by.
What's more, even if they could, why SHOULD they exactly? Imagine you met someone you fall in love with - want to be with forever. But someone tells you it's wrong. I don't think you say "Oops my bad" and go find someone else because they "Fit". That being a crock as it is.
But I suppose I have no need to say much to you given your other comment.

And no, I don't care that most people on this forum hate me.

Durr hurr becuz this gives me a pass to say whatever I want without having to listen to retorts hurp.

 

[Aura Cobalt]

But you can change your sexuality. I did. Heterosexuality to asexuality. Now, I don't get "turned on" by anything anymore. (Let me tell you, it sure is nice this way.) Maybe you could definitely say that I have "denied" or "surpressed" my preivious sexual oreintation, but see, once things have undergone as you say "denial" or "suppression" this much, they really have changed. Yet I'm definitely not inable to go back to heterosexuality. If I didn't already have (Christian) morals in place, I feel like I might just as well be homosexual. I guess it all comes down to morallity. And ain't it nice to be able to set your own standards for yourself in a universe that happened by chance?

 

[spaekle]

But why should your morals dictate what's right for other people? Shouldn't other people be able to set their own standards in a universe that happened by chance? It's not like gays are infringing on other people's rights just by being gay.

Suppressing your sexuality isn't good no matter what, by the way. Even if it does bring about some kind of change, as you seem to believe.

I like pizza. I didn't choose to like pizza, I just do. Now, if I really wanted to, I could probably stop eating it. I could stop looking at pizza, and I could keep telling myself that I don't like pizza any more. Maybe it would work. Maybe I'd stop wanting pizza when I went out to eat. Maybe I could move on to other food. But the thing is, if ever I tried eating pizza again, I'd probably still like it.

Telling myself I don't like pizza any more isn't suddenly going to make it taste bad. I've just been denying that I like pizza. It's not like liking pizza is a bad thing to begin with (as long as it's eaten in moderation :V) so why bother trying to change myself? Me eating what I like isn't hurting anyone.

The only difference between this and sexuality is that sexuality tends to be much more important to a person's wellbeing than a preference for one food, and it also tends to be much harder to just suppress.

 

[Dinru]

At least you can change your sexuality.

Uh, as some have said, no you can't. However...

But you can change your sexuality. I did.

Okay, lemme say something: Sexuality, though it cannot be actively changed and is ingrained into you, is fluid. It's programed into you and you can't change it, but sometimes it evolves over time. For instance, I'm going to use my own experience as an example: I've always, since about age ten, had a strong physical attraction to men (although I've always had emotional attraction to both). It was that way for many years, and no matter what, a woman would not turn me on. However, recently, the physical appeal of men seems to be equal to the appeal of women, that is, very much. I didn't choose that or will it, but something inside of me decided to say, "Ooh, boobies!" and thus I started to stare. Something similar could have happened to you, only more in the "Eww boobies!" direction. You were just lucky that it went to what you want to be.

 

[Aura Cobalt]

I think Spaekle Oddberry understands my situation a bit more than Dinru. I chose to train myself not to be attracted to anyone. (@ Spaekle: you do realize I was being sarcastic about the universe happening by chance thing? I just said in the line before I held Christian views.) So yeah. Training yourself not to eat pizza would be a good idea if it had poison. That's just the case. The truth is, there's just no arguing against homosexuality without the Bible/ religious views. Sex outside of marriage is, however, "poison" to all regardless because of STD's, which I think are natural processes purposefully put in place by the Creator.

Whether we want there to be or not, there is a right or wrong answer, and in the end we will all either be judged or go into oblivion. If I am right, gays are definitely in for it, since the Bible is against it. (the book of Romans goes into pretty harsh detail)

 

[see ya]

Fun Bible fact: Jesus never said a word about homosexuality. Paul did. Yahweh did. Jesus didn't.

By the way, Romans also states that women can never speak in church and must always wear head coverings, and states harsh consequences for doing otherwise. And don't even get me started on Leviticus...

And you're absolutely right. There is no sound argument against homosexuality without religious, faith-based views. So why are you trying to argue it on a forum where most of the members don't even share the same faith as you, making your points completely moot to them?

And LOL about premarital sex being a poison. That's yet another thing that can't be argued without some kind of religious slant. Sex has happened before marriage even existed, and unless you expect everyone to be married the second their sex drive kicks in, it's an entirely unrealistic concept. And STDs being a tool of God just seems kind of underhanded, no? "Hey, I'm gonna give these guys a massive year-round sex drive but give them horrible diseases if they have sex at a time I disapprove of!" It doesn't make much sense, really.

 

[#1 bro]

I dunno, has it been proven that you can't change your sexuality? I think sexuality might just be like any other preference...

Let me share an anecdote. For the first ten years or so of my life I could not stand the taste of chocolate. My dislike was one of the things a lot of people knew about me, a defining trait. As you can imagine, this was very inconvenient, because half of the desserts that the school cafeteria served, I couldn't eat. Then, in fifth grade I decided I had had enough, and so I started to attempt to somehow convince myself to like it. For about two months, I forced myself to eat chocolate whenever I got the chance, hoping that I would see the light and start enjoying it. And guess what? It actually worked! Now, I eat chocolate all the time, and enjoy it.

So, who says sexuality has to be different? I think that maybe, if I really, really wanted to be gay, I could... you know, start searching the internet for pictures of naked men, and eventually I would start to find them appealing? Then, I could start watching gay porn, and then maybe experiment with inserting things into my ass, until, eventually, I would find those appealing, and then I would start desiring sex with men?

I dunno, is it possible that that would work? I think that if I really put my mind to it, I could turn myself gay, or at least bisexual...

Not that it matters anyway. Gay marriage should be legal even if it was a choice etc.

 

[Aura Cobalt]

Fun Bible fact: According to the Bible not all of the teachings/ miracles of Jesus were recorded, for if they could have been, it would fill multiple volumes.

In a society where women had such a different role in society than men such things are sensible as to keep the peace. On the other hand, homosexuality was common among the Pegans and would have been a hard lesson.

Granted, not all of the Old Testament has the same application today. It was written thousands of years ago for a very different original audience. What did you expect?

 

[Bluberry Bat]

I think Spaekle Oddberry understands my situation a bit more than Dinru. I chose to train myself not to be attracted to anyone. (@ Spaekle: you do realize I was being sarcastic about the universe happening by chance thing? I just said in the line before I held Christian views.) So yeah. Training yourself not to eat pizza would be a good idea if it had poison. That's just the case. The truth is, there's just no arguing against homosexuality without the Bible/ religious views. Sex outside of marriage is, however, "poison" to all regardless because of STD's, which I think are natural processes purposefully put in place by the Creator.

Training yourself to act differently than you are is far more unnatural that homosexuality is you realise. That isn't choice, that's force. It's just like being in the closet - you deny it and hide it away but at the end of the day those aren't the feelings you have, it's a veil you put over yourself for protection. Go ahead and direct me to someone who "Trained" themselves to be homosexual, too - I bet there are just CROWDS waiting to be discriminated against. They feel like joining in, and hey - PARADES.

And protip: Heterosexual marriage doesn't cure / prevent STD's and you're all the same likely to catch them in sex with someone you're married with! Sure, if you spend enough time together you should know if your partner is afflicted as such, but it can and does happen that many the straight coupling isn't honest with their partner and infects them. And guess what, gay couples have the same likely hood to catch on during a relationship to things like that.

Wheather we want there to be or not, there is a right or wrong answer, and in the end we will all either be judged or go into oblivion. If I am right, gays are definitely in for it, since the Bible is against it. (the book of Romans goes into pretty harsh detail)

Oh hey! Pascals wager~ I've got 2,500 Karma on Buddhism.
You associate with the largest religion on the planet - what makes that right exactly? You're still a speck on this little blue marble and a mere nothing among the universe. Huh, good luck.
But apparently that gives you the right to discriminate against others? Imagine for a second Christianity was the SMALLEST religion on the planet? You wouldn't be so cloaked to say those things would you? Christianity forcibly converted through the ages in order to gain that size. That's a great moral high ground huh?

 

[Aura Cobalt]

I dunno, has it been proven that you can't change your sexuality? I think sexuality might just be like any other preference...

Let me share an anecdote. For the first ten years or so of my life I could not stand the taste of chocolate. My dislike was one of the things a lot of people knew about me, a defining trait. As you can imagine, this was very inconvenient, because half of the desserts that the school cafeteria served, I couldn't eat. Then, in fifth grade I decided I had had enough, and so I started to attempt to somehow convince myself to like it. For about two months, I forced myself to eat chocolate whenever I got the chance, hoping that I would see the light and start enjoying it. And guess what? It actually worked! Now, I eat chocolate all the time, and enjoy it.

So, who says sexuality has to be different? I think that maybe, if I really, really wanted to be gay, I could... you know, start searching the internet for pictures of naked men, and eventually I would start to find them appealing? Then, I could start watching gay porn, and then maybe experiment with inserting things into my ass, until, eventually, I would find those appealing, and then I would start desiring sex with men?

I dunno, is it possible that that would work? I think that if I really put my mind to it, I could turn myself gay, or at least bisexual...

Not that it matters anyway. Gay marriage should be legal even if it was a choice etc.

I'm really starting to get creeped out of this discussion. Do you're all's sexualities rage this much? When I was heterosexual I never even let myself lust. Lusting is way different than occasionally thinking about sex and... knowing it... erm... would be enjoyable?

 

[see ya]

Fun Bible fact: According to the Bible not all of the teachings/ miracles of Jesus were recorded, for if they could have been, it would fill multiple volumes.

In a society where women had such a different role in society than men such things are sensible as to keep the peace. On the other hand, homosexuality was common among the Pegans and would have been a hard lesson.

Granted, not all of the Old Testament has the same application today. It was written thousands of years ago for a very different original audience. What did you expect?

1. Well, we don't know if he did or not. Still, didn't he primarily preach about being non-judgmental, humble, and generally Christ-like? Yeah, I think that pretty much overrides anything he might have said about homosexuality. After all, if you're right, they'll be judged anyway later, right? So it's none of your business. Turn the other cheek and smile.

2. I fail to see how that makes my point any less valid. because...

3. Guess what? The New Testament was ALSO written thousands of years ago and was ALSO directed at a very different audience! We've come a long way since bible times, now that things like slavery, stonings and such are no longer commonplace in the modern world. So why should we hold the same standards now as people did thousands of years ago? Isn't that kind of backwards?

I'm really starting to get creeped out of this discussion. Do you're all's sexualities rage this much? When I was heterosexual I never even let myself lust. Lusting is way different than occasionally thinking about sex and... knowing it... erm... would be enjoyable?

I don't really see how what he said was "raging sexuality". It was just an example.

Also, yes. It's called "being a human that isn't asexual." :D

 

[goldenquagsire]

@Zeta Reticuli: I suppose you're probably right. People can change pretty much anything about themselves, if forced to. I really don't think that should be taken into account, though - just because it can be done, doesn't mean it should be done.

I'm really starting to get creeped out of this discussion. Do you're all's sexualities rage this much? When I was heterosexual I never even let myself lust. Lusting is way different than occasionally thinking about sex and... knowing it... erm... would be enjoyable?

Man, just go out and lust! Try it for once. You'll see that the universe won't collapse, and you might just enjoy yourself.

Ho hum, another gay marriage bitchfest. Usual arguments being levied against, and swiftly destroyed. One poor guy gets crushed under the weight of progressive liberal thinking and realises that he chose the wrong forum to preach on. I think I preferred the old Communism debates with Celestial Blade.

 

[ultraviolet]

I'm really starting to get creeped out of this discussion. Do you're all's sexualities rage this much? When I was heterosexual I never even let myself lust. Lusting is way different than occasionally thinking about sex and... knowing it... erm... would be enjoyable?

It varies completely between individuals. Lusting is, actually, thinking about sex, pretty much. Getting 'turned on' or thinking 'sexy' thoughts. A completely natural thing. Letting yourself think about sex isn't going to harm you and you won't go to hell for it because everyone does it. Anyone who tells you otherwise is full of shit. Yes, everyone. Them too. And them. Everyone.

Sex outside of marriage is, however, "poison" to all regardless because of STD's, which I think are natural processes purposefully put in place by the Creator.

You do realise that many, many people who are married have STDs. There are many, many people who got STDs from marital sex. There are many, many people who didn't get STDs from sex outside of marriage (example: myself).
Do you even know how STDs work or what they are? Because the impression I'm getting is that you think they're voodoo curses or something.

You know what? Sex isn't such a big magical fuss that everyone makes it out to be. Genitals rub against other people, tadaa, sex. If you don't like homosexuals, bisexuals or whatnot then don't be one. Leave us alone. We don't really care about what you think about us, to be honest.
Stop complaining about the way we have sex. It's not as if it has anything to do with you or anything. o.O

Fun Bible fact: According to the Bible not all of the teachings/ miracles of Jesus were recorded, for if they could have been, it would fill multiple volumes.

So... if I said that Jesus said 'the first rule of Christianity is that you don't talk about Christianity' then you couldn't disprove me, right?

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

No one in their right mind would choose to be gay. No one in their right mind would choose to deviate at least a little from normal society standards. Because, let's face it: there is no goddamn reason to. If you're heterosexual, you're pretty much in the safe zone, if you're homosexual, congrats! Your chances of getting discriminated against, beaten up, denied basic human rights and getting killed just increased tenfold! Come up and collect your prize, you lucky little faggots!
And look at what you yourself said: you trained yourself not to be attracted to women: bravo, you're still heterosexual, just pretending to be asexual for some weird reason. It's like those horribleex-gay camps, the men are still camp as a row of tents but they suppress their sexuality and ultimately either revert to their natural ways, live unhappily married lives or kill themselves.

And bla bla bla Bible drivel. Are you going to tell me you also advocate stoning one's wife or selling one's daughter into slavery? Do you not touch women during their period of 'uncleanliness' (how would you do this, ask all women if they have their period? Frightfully rude) and when you find out you did do you wash all your clothes and bathe? Do you kill anyone who work on Sabbath? No? Then stop picking and choosing and realize that hey, maybe (I dunno man) society evolved in 2000 years. And weren't we supposed to disregard everything the old testament said after Jesus showed up? Otherwise we might as well all be Jews.
Oh wait Rabbis can marry, be women and even be gay in Reform and Conservative Judaism nevermind.

And sorry, but God sounds really petty. I always think the tower of Babel is a perfect example: the humans decide to build a town, and they think 'hey, let's build the biggest tower ever guys! We can do this because we all speak the same language!' which is pretty dandy. But God looks at these people and thinks 'hmmm they're using teamwork to try and make themselves look powerful! Alright, party's over, everyone speaks a different language and gets sent to different parts of the world.'
What the fuck. What kind of dad wouldn't want his kids to evolve and be independant? In nearly every chapter of the old testament he needs to have people constantly telling him how awesome he is and if they do the slightest thing he smites them. Sounds insecure, vindictive and just plain mean.

Wheather we want there to be or not, there is a right or wrong answer, and in the end we will all either be judged or go into oblivion. If I am right, gays are definitely in for it, since the Bible is against it.

Haha, yeah, those wacky gays are in for it now! Oh man, getting tortured forever because of something they can't help, what a hoot! I am so glad to live in a country where most people believe in a loving God such as this 'v'

Fun Bible fact: According to the Bible not all of the teachings/ miracles of Jesus were recorded, for if they could have been, it would fill multiple volumes.

Well, why didn't they make these multiple volumes? Sounds like laziness to me. Or a shitty excuse. Either way, not good!

Granted, not all of the Old Testament has the same application today. It was written thousands of years ago for a very different original audience. What did you expect?

If you know this, why do you argue for it? I mean really.

And sorry to break your world but get this: lust is normal and not something to get creeped out about unless you're getting hit on by a weirdo omg