Why do most people believe that Gen 3 was the best one?

[Murkrow]

As I posted in the grr thread, it might be possible that people think gen 4 is the worst now, because they always thought it was the worst. It's just that when it was new, people ignored their opinions because obviously the only reason anyone would ever like older games more than a newer game is nostalgia. And nostalgia means your opinion is automatically wrong.

Sorry, I meant that starting in gen 3 I felt that instead of legendaries being random birds they were well researched and anesthetically unique beings, as opposed to a Fire/Water/Thunder trio.

Yes, and I'm saying that's what I don't like. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just disagree is all.

 

[ultraviolet]

Part of it is also that the pokémon fad had died out by the time the third gen was released. Because of this, only the true pokémon fans actually saw the third gen in action, and those people perhaps liked it.

I disagree! People grow and move away from things and then come back to them later and that's pretty normal. I also know lots of people who stopped playing pokemon because their peers stopped playing it or because they were bullied for playing pokemon at a time when it wasn't considered especially cool. This doesn't mean they're not ~true fans~ (but really, the need to define a true fan is really, really unecessary). There's also the fact that tons of people have come to the fandom since gen III, and there are tons of pokemon fans who really didn't like gen III.

This is why I'm kind of hesitant about this thread at all. Is Gen 3 actually considered the best?? I was under the impression that it was kind of a base breaker, and I know lots of people really disliked it (or at least a loud minority).

 

[Butterfree]

As I posted in the grr thread, it might be possible that people think gen 4 is the worst now, because they always thought it was the worst. It's just that when it was new, people ignored their opinions because obviously the only reason anyone would ever like older games more than a newer game is nostalgia. And nostalgia means your opinion is automatically wrong.

It's not an Every Individual Pokémon Fan's Personal Opinion Simulator; it's a Pokémon Fandom General Opinion Simulator.

The point is not that people who think gen 4 is the worst now thought gen 3 was the worst during gen 4 and gen 2 was the worst during gen 3 and so on, or that people who dislike gen 4 don't have perfectly valid reasons for doing so. The point is that the general opinion of the visible fanbase as a whole has noticeably shifted according to a particular pattern. Some of that is because individuals change their personal opinion, sure, but most of it is probably simply because people phase in and out of fandom participation, and the average opinions of the people who enter the fandom are different from the average opinions of the people who leave - likely in large part for nostalgia-related reasons. (This is basically the same thing Ether's Bane was talking about.)

And by nostalgia-related reasons, I don't mean "haha you losers love gen 3 and hate gen 4 because you are robots incapable of appreciating anything except because it's the thing that existed when you were a child"; I mean that on average people are biased towards the first games they played. This is very natural: for instance, if you started playing during gen 3, you're unlikely to miss how legendaries used to just be there instead of having the storyline revolve around them, because your idea of what legendaries are supposed to be would have been colored by the third-generation games instead; you'd probably find it weird how the legendaries in the first two generations are just there, instead.

Nostalgia doesn't make you wrong because there is no "right" here in the first place. People have different tastes and preferences, some of them colored by nostalgia, and that's okay. You don't need to get so defensive that somebody decided to poke light fun at popular shifts in opinion.

 

[Karousever]

This is very natural: for instance, if you started playing during gen 3, you're unlikely to miss how legendaries used to just be there instead of having the storyline revolve around them, because your idea of what legendaries are supposed to be would have been colored by the third-generation games instead; you'd probably find it weird how the legendaries in the first two generations are just there, instead.

Being exactly the person she's talking about, I can vouch that Butterfree certainly has a point. In fact I do think it odd, legendaries just being there, rather than being a major part of the story. And it's probably for the exact reason she said, that's just what I grew up with.

And I know I especially loved that game as a kid, because I know I beat it and restarted it many, many times. I have never really restarted a Pokemon game (from the end) more than once, especially not consecutively. But I was in love with this game as a child.

 

[Momo(th)]

. There's every environment besides an icy place, something for almost everyone.

And even then we have the deep parts of Shoal Cave.

Dang now I want to go play Emerald.

 

[Alxprit]

I tend to judge a generation first on its Pokemon, secondly on its reigon, and thirdly on its mechanics, although there is some fluctuation. (Like Diamond and Pearl's slowness just killed it for me.) For Hoenn, it hits them all. It's got some of my favorite designs, including the ever-so-amazing Latias. The reigon is really big, and you can tell that compared to Kanto and Johto, which are small enough to both exist in a single game. Now that I think about it, maybe that's why the Sevii Islands exist: just to make FR/LG feel as big as RSE. It's not just its size that matters, it's places worth exploring. I mean, Pokemon isn't exactly known for its optional areas, but at least there were a lot of routes with different paths, areas one could access with different bicycles, the whole diving thing extending longevity, so on and so forth. And the mechanics are pretty solid, despite the physical special split not happening yet. Abilities are important, natures are important, and so on. Also, it seems natural to come back to it, compared to Gen 4 or even 5. It's just really smooth.

That's only my opinion, however. Gen 3 isn't even my favorite gen: usually I lend my support to the current reigon, in this case Kalos. But Gen 3 will still hit a good nerve with me every time, and if I ever have children, I'd want to introduce Pokemon to them with that generation, before they go straight to whatever future we have waiting.

 

[Autumn]

gen 3 is my favorite and has been since like 2007 and that was when everyone was praising gen 2 like there was no tomorrow. so while the pokémon fandom simulator may have only started pointing at gen 3 somewhat recently, i've loved it since day one.

i could give my reasons but i don't feel like it right now lol

 

[Negrek]

I seriously doubt that "most people" believe that Gen III was the best, but I'm definitely a fan. Really just popped in here to gape at the fact that nobody has mentioned the Battle Frontier omg best thing. Other than that I pretty much love the things other people have consistently mentioned: what is still the best implementation of secret bases to date (seriously GF how do you get WORSE at these over time), the environment (Fortree City <3), and the pokémon. Especially the pokémon. I mean come on, you've got the badass legendaries, stuff like the aron line, absol, tropius, sableye, hilarious things like wailord, nosepass, ABSOL, etc.

It was definitely the start of the hideous proliferation of legendaries, though, which I've not been a fan of. I really do not need like twenty legendaries, four or so of which are not available during normal gameplay, GF, thanks.

 

[Murkrow]

I've recently been reevaluating gen 3. I always liked it, but it's gone up in my estimation now.

RSE were very ambitious, given how much was added compared to the previous generation, and all of its features intertwined in a way to make the world feel that much more cohesive.

Just to list a few things that were added or changed from gen 2:

• double battles
• secret bases
• natures
• berries
• contests
• abilities
• mixing records
• regi sidequest
• battle frontier
• reworking how stats work under the bonnet (unfortunately making it incompatible with previous gens)

Berries replace apricorns to an extent, but what I like about berries is the flavour text associated with them - as in literally the flavours. They could have just had a bunch of berries and had a chart showing what colour they were and thus what kind of pokeblock they would produce, but instead they had different flavours and those flavours relate to pokeblock colours. It's a small detail but it adds to the believability of the world because the flavours have a function in gameplay but it's quite minor. It lets you imagine that they're used as ingredients in food in different ways in-universe.

I've said before that I wish contests had stuck around past gen 4 and been developed to the extent battling has been. Out of all of the side-games (contests, pokethlon, pokestar studios, etc.) contests were the most developed and the most fun in my opinion, which is funny considering they were the first. It makes sense that there would be pokemon contests in-universe and the mechanics surrounding it weren't exclusive to contests; berries make pokeblocks but they're also held items and safari zone bait, the moves you use in a contest are the same moves you use in battle but you have to optimise differently.

Natures were a good addition to the battle system in a way that makes it more complex and makes each pokemon species more unique. They also introduced some abilities that had out-of-battle effects, again expanding the scope of the world beyond battling. Breeders probably use magma armour, for example.

Secret bases were a fun little diversion. There's not much to say about them by themselves, but they contributed to the sense of exploration in the game. Going caving or diving and finding a secluded spot with a spot in the wall is a fun experience. They also worked well with mixing records. This was before we had internet connectivity but they wanted to expand beyond just connecting with people 1:1. Mixing records was like a built-in form of virality. You'd not only mix records with your friend but anyone who your friend had mixed records with, I think that's a genius soluton. It's something that can't really be replicated these days because of the internet connectivity. There's something magical about connecting with people locally and forming a web of connections. It's something that Nintendo did again with streetpass on the 3DS but hasn't been replicated since.
Actually I'm making an assumption here, I have no idea whether mixing records is transitive (i.e. if person A mixes records with person B, who mixes records with person C, then person A's data might end up in person C's game), if it wasn't, then it was a wasted opporunity.

Battle frontier didn't last long before they axed it so I only really have the gen 4 one to compare it to, but I think I prefer the gen 3 one. A lot of the facilities were more experimental so while the battle pike was just pure RNG and I still don't really understand how the battle palace is supposed to work, I appreciate their attempts to make interesting twists on battling mechanics. The battle pyramid I expecially like because they made a roguelike minigame using pokemon mechanics! Most of the facilities have an element of risk/reward to them that isn't present in normal battling; in the factory you can choose to swap a pokemon to gain an advantage in your next fight but it might put you at a disadvantage later, the pyramid has you choose whether you want to battle more to reveal more of the screen at the cost of your pokemon's hp/pp and the more you explore the more likely you are to encounter wild pokemon that hurt you but you also get to find items that you can save for later.

All in all the gen 3 games just had a lot of effort put into them. A level of effort which I don't think is possible for modern pokemon games due to time constraints put upon them by management.