Blank Canvas Mafia Game Thread

[MF the ISOable]

ah, y'know what. fuck it, I'm staying on the horse

Vote: Butterfree again

Could I ask you to say more? Particularly, it seems to imply that she's targeting town!Mawile; I know you had been leaning sus on Mawile, so what had made you change your mind?

I just kinda trust Butterfree less than Mawile at this point, and also there's always a point in mafia where you have to be a little stubborn so as to not talk yourself out of every possible move

Sorry if I'm being a nag - I guess my question is like, where did that relative erosion of trust in Butterfree and/or gain of trust in Mawile come from? Like, still the placement of the vote on Mawile?

you're fine!

still the placement of the vote on Mawile; I was wrong about the thought that she hadn't sussed them at all prior, but she still spoke of it very little for it to be the final move, especially being that she sounded like she was going a lot stronger on me

my vibes on Mawile are where I parked them last time, but I wasn't sussing him all that hard to begin with

 

[Eifie]

hi i'm back

Vote: mewtini

I'M SORRY QUEEN I THINK YOU'RE MAFIA!!! I'M SO SORRY!!!!! I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS VOTE THE ENTIRE TIME I WAS GONE......

 

[Keldeo]

@Eifie I hope you are enjoying a delicious dinner and not stressed about the game! For your ref, here are the posts about Dodge's past games + slightly more sophisticated thoughts:

Spoiler

On review, MF makes the most direct comparison to the past games (but I like, kind of think MF is town now, maybe, for separate reasons.) mewtini is appealing more to a sense of "experience" while not having actually apparently read back into those games, and I now get your point about her probably exaggerating his "amount of experience" in making that read. So this might be a wash.

wrt Dodge, I think he sounds a good bit more relaxed than when he's mafia.

(Including Butterfree's and my short conversation about this because I had misremembered off-camera that she actually compared to past games, but she didn't)

Dodge I'm not getting a very substantial read on even on an ISO, feels reasonably at ease but I would need to check out his previous games to know if that means much.

The main tonal notes Dodge has hit I've read as, if not uncomfortable, uncertain and a bit deferential (many question marks, and some examples:)

Spoiler

Am new, am bad, wanna do a learn

I soft trust her, a bit, sorta?

I don't mean that I think ya'll are wrong, just that I'm missing something and I wanna learn to town good lol

So I'm confused by MF and Butterfree both calling him relaxed. I read his games from ~a year ago and didn't get this sense from either mafia or town Dodge, except mafia Dodge saying "I'm not evil, just bad", which I don't think really counts. Maybe you had to be there?

I'm confused by MF and Butterfree both calling him relaxed

For what it’s worth I would agree I have found Dodge to seem less at ease since after my initial post saying that, though I couldn’t say whether that’s alignment-indicative or just an effect of being scrutinized a bit more as a new player.

Anyway hi I have managed to catch up on the thread but at this point I don’t think any further rereading is going to be able to happen until I get home tonight and my phone battery is low. I guesssss I will provisionarily Vote: Mawile for now to see what happens and reevaluate later.

I generally agree with the evaluation that Ever’s MF vote seems towny, for what it’s worth.

1. from my limited memory, even though dodge is a less experienced player than some of us, he had gotten more comfortable posting his thoughts by the end of the last game i played with him
2. i agree that he has seemed very self-conscious and deferential as you said (i independently had that thought) and i think it doesn’t match up with the amount that he’s played

I think my tepid conclusion is that meta from some relatively low-activity games almost a year ago just doesn't mean much

i agree but i think that my looking at “i want to learn how to town good” after already having played a couple of games (as both alignments) is different from doing a big meta read

wait is this dodge town meta y'all are referring to from a game a year ago in which he made a grand total of 10 posts. is that what y'all are talking about rn.

i know it’s weak, i just don’t have a better place to go. but quickly looking back he also made far more substantial posts then during his /first/ game

now that I actually bothered to look into it I think the people referring to dodge's meta are kinda sus lol but I have to actually look at the game where he was mafia to be sure

i don’t remember his mafia vs town game. i’m going off of vibes

i’m not able to look at the timeline of his posts within games on mobile tbh i admit

in his ISO in the fire and ice game, post #34 is his final post on d1

ok i’m trying to look now, isn’t it #69? i still think it’s tonally distinct but maybe we just disagree

 

[Eifie]

I'm not sure if mewtini is defending wolf mawile or white-knighting town mawile. maybe leaning former, i feel like she's been more passively trying to get us to get off Mawile for a while and then had to get more active about it.

 

[Eifie]

@Eifie I hope you are enjoying a delicious dinner and not stressed about the game! For your ref, here are the posts about Dodge's past games + slightly more sophisticated thoughts:

Spoiler

On review, MF makes the most direct comparison to the past games (but I like, kind of think MF is town now, maybe, for separate reasons.) mewtini is appealing more to a sense of "experience" while not having actually apparently read back into those games, and I now get your point about her probably exaggerating his "amount of experience" in making that read. So this might be a wash.

wrt Dodge, I think he sounds a good bit more relaxed than when he's mafia.

(Including Butterfree's and my short conversation about this because I had misremembered off-camera that she actually compared to past games, but she didn't)

Dodge I'm not getting a very substantial read on even on an ISO, feels reasonably at ease but I would need to check out his previous games to know if that means much.

The main tonal notes Dodge has hit I've read as, if not uncomfortable, uncertain and a bit deferential (many question marks, and some examples:)

Spoiler

Am new, am bad, wanna do a learn

I soft trust her, a bit, sorta?

I don't mean that I think ya'll are wrong, just that I'm missing something and I wanna learn to town good lol

So I'm confused by MF and Butterfree both calling him relaxed. I read his games from ~a year ago and didn't get this sense from either mafia or town Dodge, except mafia Dodge saying "I'm not evil, just bad", which I don't think really counts. Maybe you had to be there?

I'm confused by MF and Butterfree both calling him relaxed

For what it’s worth I would agree I have found Dodge to seem less at ease since after my initial post saying that, though I couldn’t say whether that’s alignment-indicative or just an effect of being scrutinized a bit more as a new player.

Anyway hi I have managed to catch up on the thread but at this point I don’t think any further rereading is going to be able to happen until I get home tonight and my phone battery is low. I guesssss I will provisionarily Vote: Mawile for now to see what happens and reevaluate later.

I generally agree with the evaluation that Ever’s MF vote seems towny, for what it’s worth.

1. from my limited memory, even though dodge is a less experienced player than some of us, he had gotten more comfortable posting his thoughts by the end of the last game i played with him
2. i agree that he has seemed very self-conscious and deferential as you said (i independently had that thought) and i think it doesn’t match up with the amount that he’s played

I think my tepid conclusion is that meta from some relatively low-activity games almost a year ago just doesn't mean much

i agree but i think that my looking at “i want to learn how to town good” after already having played a couple of games (as both alignments) is different from doing a big meta read

wait is this dodge town meta y'all are referring to from a game a year ago in which he made a grand total of 10 posts. is that what y'all are talking about rn.

i know it’s weak, i just don’t have a better place to go. but quickly looking back he also made far more substantial posts then during his /first/ game

now that I actually bothered to look into it I think the people referring to dodge's meta are kinda sus lol but I have to actually look at the game where he was mafia to be sure

i don’t remember his mafia vs town game. i’m going off of vibes

i’m not able to look at the timeline of his posts within games on mobile tbh i admit

in his ISO in the fire and ice game, post #34 is his final post on d1

ok i’m trying to look now, isn’t it #69? i still think it’s tonally distinct but maybe we just disagree

lol

 

[Butterfree]

Really flagging and starting to doze off now, but rereading MF I think the misreading that had her voting for me initially seems sincere. I don't think I totally understand why she's back on me at the moment but maybe I'm just tired/sounds more vibes-based. Remain kind of iffy on her but not inclined to vote her right now.

kyeugh obviously has no relevant contribution yet (looking forward to you getting to play!). xrunner48 exists but remains very under the radar and reluctant to express much other than placing a no-elimination vote to tie with Mawile which again mayyy indicate an association. Have not gotten to rereading missingno? or Keldeo or re-rereading Dodge unfortunately but I don't think I'm going to manage that tonight, think I need to just be doing my obligatory drawing and getting to bed and I think I'm content with my vote where it is right now.

 

[Keldeo]

I'm not sure if mewtini is defending wolf mawile or white-knighting town mawile. maybe leaning former, i feel like she's been more passively trying to get us to get off Mawile for a while and then had to get more active about it.

Eif let's jam - I got pretty narrowed in on Dodge on this page due to this reads list seeming extremely convenient for his counterwagons being MF and Mawile (the cconstructed nature particularly due to the lack of mention of mewtini being a pretty large part of the wagon on Mawile dying off, when that was his main justification for reversing on MF). Do you think that's just confirmation bias/I'm going too hard on a reads list with a reasonable innocent explanation? I'm not entirely sure if Dodge and mewtini being partnered makes sense from mewtini's perspective, which would mean that we have competing views of the gamestate

OK, reading back through the thread and trying to get my thoughts in order a bit:
Slightly Trust: mewtini, Butterfree (both seem about as active and contributing takes as when they were Town recently)
Eifie, Keldeo (basically the same on contribution, except I haven't played with them before so slightly lighter read I guess)
missingno? (I just think they're neat)


Slightly Iffy: Mawile (Maybe I'm being swayed by Butterfree's recent posts, but I do think that mafia would probably have pushed a bandwagon to vote him, and the fact that it instead died off and diverted into multiple other people does seem a bit off)
MF (a bit more vibes based I guess, but the recent push for targetting Butterfree and especially doing so while she's continuing to pressure Mawile kinda rubs me the wrong way?)


IDK: Everyone else (either hasn't posted much/at all or just kinda didn't stand out as particularly towny or mafia-y)

 

[Eifie]

@Eifie I hope you are enjoying a delicious dinner and not stressed about the game! For your ref, here are the posts about Dodge's past games + slightly more sophisticated thoughts:

Spoiler

On review, MF makes the most direct comparison to the past games (but I like, kind of think MF is town now, maybe, for separate reasons.) mewtini is appealing more to a sense of "experience" while not having actually apparently read back into those games, and I now get your point about her probably exaggerating his "amount of experience" in making that read. So this might be a wash.

wrt Dodge, I think he sounds a good bit more relaxed than when he's mafia.

(Including Butterfree's and my short conversation about this because I had misremembered off-camera that she actually compared to past games, but she didn't)

Dodge I'm not getting a very substantial read on even on an ISO, feels reasonably at ease but I would need to check out his previous games to know if that means much.

The main tonal notes Dodge has hit I've read as, if not uncomfortable, uncertain and a bit deferential (many question marks, and some examples:)

Spoiler

Am new, am bad, wanna do a learn

I soft trust her, a bit, sorta?

I don't mean that I think ya'll are wrong, just that I'm missing something and I wanna learn to town good lol

So I'm confused by MF and Butterfree both calling him relaxed. I read his games from ~a year ago and didn't get this sense from either mafia or town Dodge, except mafia Dodge saying "I'm not evil, just bad", which I don't think really counts. Maybe you had to be there?

I'm confused by MF and Butterfree both calling him relaxed

For what it’s worth I would agree I have found Dodge to seem less at ease since after my initial post saying that, though I couldn’t say whether that’s alignment-indicative or just an effect of being scrutinized a bit more as a new player.

Anyway hi I have managed to catch up on the thread but at this point I don’t think any further rereading is going to be able to happen until I get home tonight and my phone battery is low. I guesssss I will provisionarily Vote: Mawile for now to see what happens and reevaluate later.

I generally agree with the evaluation that Ever’s MF vote seems towny, for what it’s worth.

1. from my limited memory, even though dodge is a less experienced player than some of us, he had gotten more comfortable posting his thoughts by the end of the last game i played with him
2. i agree that he has seemed very self-conscious and deferential as you said (i independently had that thought) and i think it doesn’t match up with the amount that he’s played

I think my tepid conclusion is that meta from some relatively low-activity games almost a year ago just doesn't mean much

i agree but i think that my looking at “i want to learn how to town good” after already having played a couple of games (as both alignments) is different from doing a big meta read

wait is this dodge town meta y'all are referring to from a game a year ago in which he made a grand total of 10 posts. is that what y'all are talking about rn.

i know it’s weak, i just don’t have a better place to go. but quickly looking back he also made far more substantial posts then during his /first/ game

now that I actually bothered to look into it I think the people referring to dodge's meta are kinda sus lol but I have to actually look at the game where he was mafia to be sure

i don’t remember his mafia vs town game. i’m going off of vibes

i’m not able to look at the timeline of his posts within games on mobile tbh i admit

in his ISO in the fire and ice game, post #34 is his final post on d1

ok i’m trying to look now, isn’t it #69? i still think it’s tonally distinct but maybe we just disagree

are your slightly more sophisticated thoughts just the bit at the top of the spoiler? do you have any conclusion? (also thank you for gathering the posts!)

 

[mewtini]

hi i'm back

Vote: mewtini

I'M SORRY QUEEN I THINK YOU'RE MAFIA!!! I'M SO SORRY!!!!! I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS VOTE THE ENTIRE TIME I WAS GONE......

:(

 

[Ever]

OK, reading back through the thread and trying to get my thoughts in order a bit:
Slightly Trust: mewtini, Butterfree (both seem about as active and contributing takes as when they were Town recently)
Eifie, Keldeo (basically the same on contribution, except I haven't played with them before so slightly lighter read I guess)
missingno? (I just think they're neat)


Slightly Iffy: Mawile (Maybe I'm being swayed by Butterfree's recent posts, but I do think that mafia would probably have pushed a bandwagon to vote him, and the fact that it instead died off and diverted into multiple other people does seem a bit off)
MF (a bit more vibes based I guess, but the recent push for targetting Butterfree and especially doing so while she's continuing to pressure Mawile kinda rubs me the wrong way?)


IDK: Everyone else (either hasn't posted much/at all or just kinda didn't stand out as particularly towny or mafia-y)

Do you have any thoughts on missingno? I feel like you've touched on everyone else who's been moderately active except for them, and they at least have been active enough for me to have an impression of them.

 

[Keldeo]

are your slightly more sophisticated thoughts just the bit at the top of the spoiler? do you have any conclusion? (also thank you for gathering the posts!)

Yeah. I mean the conclusion is like, I can see it? I'm pretty sure I also expressed like, she seems to be echoing views after other people have them - that Dodge vote came after I expressed similar skepticism about Dodge's tone, she appealed to that similarity - and the initial reads aren't developing. I think the town explanation is probably something like, she hasn't dug into this game, and in re-explaining about reads when asked, she's sort of doubling down on things that weren't that strong when they occurred to her.

 

[Keldeo]

OK, reading back through the thread and trying to get my thoughts in order a bit:
Slightly Trust: mewtini, Butterfree (both seem about as active and contributing takes as when they were Town recently)
Eifie, Keldeo (basically the same on contribution, except I haven't played with them before so slightly lighter read I guess)
missingno? (I just think they're neat)


Slightly Iffy: Mawile (Maybe I'm being swayed by Butterfree's recent posts, but I do think that mafia would probably have pushed a bandwagon to vote him, and the fact that it instead died off and diverted into multiple other people does seem a bit off)
MF (a bit more vibes based I guess, but the recent push for targetting Butterfree and especially doing so while she's continuing to pressure Mawile kinda rubs me the wrong way?)


IDK: Everyone else (either hasn't posted much/at all or just kinda didn't stand out as particularly towny or mafia-y)

Do you have any thoughts on missingno? I feel like you've touched on everyone else who's been moderately active except for them, and they at least have been active enough for me to have an impression of them.

He said "I just think they're neat", which I agree with ftr.

What are your impressions?

 

[Dodge]

OK, reading back through the thread and trying to get my thoughts in order a bit:
Slightly Trust: mewtini, Butterfree (both seem about as active and contributing takes as when they were Town recently)
Eifie, Keldeo (basically the same on contribution, except I haven't played with them before so slightly lighter read I guess)
missingno? (I just think they're neat)


Slightly Iffy: Mawile (Maybe I'm being swayed by Butterfree's recent posts, but I do think that mafia would probably have pushed a bandwagon to vote him, and the fact that it instead died off and diverted into multiple other people does seem a bit off)
MF (a bit more vibes based I guess, but the recent push for targetting Butterfree and especially doing so while she's continuing to pressure Mawile kinda rubs me the wrong way?)


IDK: Everyone else (either hasn't posted much/at all or just kinda didn't stand out as particularly towny or mafia-y)

Do you have any thoughts on missingno? I feel like you've touched on everyone else who's been moderately active except for them, and they at least have been active enough for me to have an impression of them.

missingno? sounds like me but less awkward and with sick kaomoji skillz, it's not even so much trust as "I don't want to need to vote for them"
I see them kinda going along with the flow, but I can't even fault them for that because like, mood. Would be on IDK if not for the above bias lol

 

[Eifie]

I'm not sure if mewtini is defending wolf mawile or white-knighting town mawile. maybe leaning former, i feel like she's been more passively trying to get us to get off Mawile for a while and then had to get more active about it.

Eif let's jam - I got pretty narrowed in on Dodge on this page due to this reads list seeming extremely convenient for his counterwagons being MF and Mawile (the cconstructed nature particularly due to the lack of mention of mewtini being a pretty large part of the wagon on Mawile dying off, when that was his main justification for reversing on MF). Do you think that's just confirmation bias/I'm going too hard on a reads list with a reasonable innocent explanation? I'm not entirely sure if Dodge and mewtini being partnered makes sense from mewtini's perspective, which would mean that we have competing views of the gamestate

OK, reading back through the thread and trying to get my thoughts in order a bit:
Slightly Trust: mewtini, Butterfree (both seem about as active and contributing takes as when they were Town recently)
Eifie, Keldeo (basically the same on contribution, except I haven't played with them before so slightly lighter read I guess)
missingno? (I just think they're neat)


Slightly Iffy: Mawile (Maybe I'm being swayed by Butterfree's recent posts, but I do think that mafia would probably have pushed a bandwagon to vote him, and the fact that it instead died off and diverted into multiple other people does seem a bit off)
MF (a bit more vibes based I guess, but the recent push for targetting Butterfree and especially doing so while she's continuing to pressure Mawile kinda rubs me the wrong way?)


IDK: Everyone else (either hasn't posted much/at all or just kinda didn't stand out as particularly towny or mafia-y)

I dunno if it's that strange to have Mawile and MF at the bottom because I feel like they've been common scum reads throughout the thread. like there's a reason they're the competing wagons, right. I read the reversal on MF as being mostly about the push on someone who's pushing on Mawile (chainsawing, if you will, (I don't remember if that's what that even means)). and I remember mewtini was the first person Dodge said he trusted, and if I read back the first thing he said about MF was maybe slightly sus, so, shrug? I'm not really getting what you're getting, I guess.

 

[mewtini]

are your slightly more sophisticated thoughts just the bit at the top of the spoiler? do you have any conclusion? (also thank you for gathering the posts!)

Yeah. I mean the conclusion is like, I can see it? I'm pretty sure I also expressed like, she seems to be echoing views after other people have them - that Dodge vote came after I expressed similar skepticism about Dodge's tone, she appealed to that similarity - and the initial reads aren't developing. I think the town explanation is probably something like, she hasn't dug into this game, and in re-explaining about reads when asked, she's sort of doubling down on things that weren't that strong when they occurred to her.

sigh

i wasn't really intending to 'double down'. i was admitting that i have very weak thoughts because i haven't been able to fully sink into the game, and i've probably spent too much time trying to overexplain them, but i feel like i've pretty plainly said that i don't have strong feelings and am just going off of what i've already formulated. like i totally acknowledge that my reads are frozen lol but i want to do something that isn't abstaining

 

[Ever]

OK, reading back through the thread and trying to get my thoughts in order a bit:
Slightly Trust: mewtini, Butterfree (both seem about as active and contributing takes as when they were Town recently)
Eifie, Keldeo (basically the same on contribution, except I haven't played with them before so slightly lighter read I guess)
missingno? (I just think they're neat)


Slightly Iffy: Mawile (Maybe I'm being swayed by Butterfree's recent posts, but I do think that mafia would probably have pushed a bandwagon to vote him, and the fact that it instead died off and diverted into multiple other people does seem a bit off)
MF (a bit more vibes based I guess, but the recent push for targetting Butterfree and especially doing so while she's continuing to pressure Mawile kinda rubs me the wrong way?)


IDK: Everyone else (either hasn't posted much/at all or just kinda didn't stand out as particularly towny or mafia-y)

Do you have any thoughts on missingno? I feel like you've touched on everyone else who's been moderately active except for them, and they at least have been active enough for me to have an impression of them.

He said "I just think they're neat", which I agree with ftr.

What are your impressions?

Oooh yes he did, my eye machine is broke after starting at my computer all day I guess.

My initial impression was that the "just a little townie" bit seemed a bit performative, and I had a little eyebrow raise at him expressing preference for a first day abstain, but I can (and will for now) attribute that more to being new/cautious than making any concrete judgements on it. He did offer some more thoughts later down the line that didn't really catch my notice one way or the other, but I am curious about the tentative "gun to my head" MF suspicion to no elim vote.

 

[Keldeo]

I'm not sure if mewtini is defending wolf mawile or white-knighting town mawile. maybe leaning former, i feel like she's been more passively trying to get us to get off Mawile for a while and then had to get more active about it.

Eif let's jam - I got pretty narrowed in on Dodge on this page due to this reads list seeming extremely convenient for his counterwagons being MF and Mawile (the cconstructed nature particularly due to the lack of mention of mewtini being a pretty large part of the wagon on Mawile dying off, when that was his main justification for reversing on MF). Do you think that's just confirmation bias/I'm going too hard on a reads list with a reasonable innocent explanation? I'm not entirely sure if Dodge and mewtini being partnered makes sense from mewtini's perspective, which would mean that we have competing views of the gamestate

OK, reading back through the thread and trying to get my thoughts in order a bit:
Slightly Trust: mewtini, Butterfree (both seem about as active and contributing takes as when they were Town recently)
Eifie, Keldeo (basically the same on contribution, except I haven't played with them before so slightly lighter read I guess)
missingno? (I just think they're neat)


Slightly Iffy: Mawile (Maybe I'm being swayed by Butterfree's recent posts, but I do think that mafia would probably have pushed a bandwagon to vote him, and the fact that it instead died off and diverted into multiple other people does seem a bit off)
MF (a bit more vibes based I guess, but the recent push for targetting Butterfree and especially doing so while she's continuing to pressure Mawile kinda rubs me the wrong way?)


IDK: Everyone else (either hasn't posted much/at all or just kinda didn't stand out as particularly towny or mafia-y)

I dunno if it's that strange to have Mawile and MF at the bottom because I feel like they've been common scum reads throughout the thread. like there's a reason they're the competing wagons, right. I read the reversal on MF as being mostly about the push on someone who's pushing on Mawile (chainsawing, if you will, (I don't remember if that's what that even means)). and I remember mewtini was the first person Dodge said he trusted, and if I read back the first thing he said about MF was maybe slightly sus, so, shrug? I'm not really getting what you're getting, I guess.

Hmmm... fine. I guess what I'm trying to get at isn't exactly that it's not natural to have Mawile and MF at the bottom - but that it doesn't seem internally consistent with continuing to townread mewtini. Like, if you think MF is transitively bad vibes from Mawile being suspicious, why doesn't mewtini's explicit and continued push off of Mawile figure in any way to updating that read? But you're going to tell me that town aren't always internally consistent.

Also looking back, he did in fact express that MF's very first vote was towny, as he said, so that at least checks out.

 

[Eifie]

for me it's like, I feel like the reasons for the vote were made up like mewt felt she had to have a reason for the vote so as not to stick out. I don't just think that they're weak but that they don't make sense at all. there was stuff based on him seeming to have gotten more comfortable posting in previous games which doesn't make sense because in his last game (a year ago) he was mafia, and in the game before that he made a grand total of 10 posts. and then that he wasn't talking about wanting to be better at being town in his first town game, but he didn't do that in his mafia game either? it's like all stuff that feels forced after the fact because it's kind of just, leaving out the fact that that mafia game existed, for some reason, and it all seems to fall apart if anyone actually looks for themself and looks at both games instead of just one.

 

[Eifie]

I'm not sure if mewtini is defending wolf mawile or white-knighting town mawile. maybe leaning former, i feel like she's been more passively trying to get us to get off Mawile for a while and then had to get more active about it.

Eif let's jam - I got pretty narrowed in on Dodge on this page due to this reads list seeming extremely convenient for his counterwagons being MF and Mawile (the cconstructed nature particularly due to the lack of mention of mewtini being a pretty large part of the wagon on Mawile dying off, when that was his main justification for reversing on MF). Do you think that's just confirmation bias/I'm going too hard on a reads list with a reasonable innocent explanation? I'm not entirely sure if Dodge and mewtini being partnered makes sense from mewtini's perspective, which would mean that we have competing views of the gamestate

OK, reading back through the thread and trying to get my thoughts in order a bit:
Slightly Trust: mewtini, Butterfree (both seem about as active and contributing takes as when they were Town recently)
Eifie, Keldeo (basically the same on contribution, except I haven't played with them before so slightly lighter read I guess)
missingno? (I just think they're neat)


Slightly Iffy: Mawile (Maybe I'm being swayed by Butterfree's recent posts, but I do think that mafia would probably have pushed a bandwagon to vote him, and the fact that it instead died off and diverted into multiple other people does seem a bit off)
MF (a bit more vibes based I guess, but the recent push for targetting Butterfree and especially doing so while she's continuing to pressure Mawile kinda rubs me the wrong way?)


IDK: Everyone else (either hasn't posted much/at all or just kinda didn't stand out as particularly towny or mafia-y)

I dunno if it's that strange to have Mawile and MF at the bottom because I feel like they've been common scum reads throughout the thread. like there's a reason they're the competing wagons, right. I read the reversal on MF as being mostly about the push on someone who's pushing on Mawile (chainsawing, if you will, (I don't remember if that's what that even means)). and I remember mewtini was the first person Dodge said he trusted, and if I read back the first thing he said about MF was maybe slightly sus, so, shrug? I'm not really getting what you're getting, I guess.

Hmmm... fine. I guess what I'm trying to get at isn't exactly that it's not natural to have Mawile and MF at the bottom - but that it doesn't seem internally consistent with continuing to townread mewtini. Like, if you think MF is transitively bad vibes from Mawile being suspicious, why doesn't mewtini's explicit and continued push off of Mawile figure in any way to updating that read? But you're going to tell me that town aren't always internally consistent.

Also looking back, he did in fact express that MF's very first vote was towny, as he said, so that at least checks out.

wait, sorry, idk what you mean about MF's very first vote?

 

[Keldeo]

I'm not sure if mewtini is defending wolf mawile or white-knighting town mawile. maybe leaning former, i feel like she's been more passively trying to get us to get off Mawile for a while and then had to get more active about it.

Eif let's jam - I got pretty narrowed in on Dodge on this page due to this reads list seeming extremely convenient for his counterwagons being MF and Mawile (the cconstructed nature particularly due to the lack of mention of mewtini being a pretty large part of the wagon on Mawile dying off, when that was his main justification for reversing on MF). Do you think that's just confirmation bias/I'm going too hard on a reads list with a reasonable innocent explanation? I'm not entirely sure if Dodge and mewtini being partnered makes sense from mewtini's perspective, which would mean that we have competing views of the gamestate

OK, reading back through the thread and trying to get my thoughts in order a bit:
Slightly Trust: mewtini, Butterfree (both seem about as active and contributing takes as when they were Town recently)
Eifie, Keldeo (basically the same on contribution, except I haven't played with them before so slightly lighter read I guess)
missingno? (I just think they're neat)


Slightly Iffy: Mawile (Maybe I'm being swayed by Butterfree's recent posts, but I do think that mafia would probably have pushed a bandwagon to vote him, and the fact that it instead died off and diverted into multiple other people does seem a bit off)
MF (a bit more vibes based I guess, but the recent push for targetting Butterfree and especially doing so while she's continuing to pressure Mawile kinda rubs me the wrong way?)


IDK: Everyone else (either hasn't posted much/at all or just kinda didn't stand out as particularly towny or mafia-y)

I dunno if it's that strange to have Mawile and MF at the bottom because I feel like they've been common scum reads throughout the thread. like there's a reason they're the competing wagons, right. I read the reversal on MF as being mostly about the push on someone who's pushing on Mawile (chainsawing, if you will, (I don't remember if that's what that even means)). and I remember mewtini was the first person Dodge said he trusted, and if I read back the first thing he said about MF was maybe slightly sus, so, shrug? I'm not really getting what you're getting, I guess.

Hmmm... fine. I guess what I'm trying to get at isn't exactly that it's not natural to have Mawile and MF at the bottom - but that it doesn't seem internally consistent with continuing to townread mewtini. Like, if you think MF is transitively bad vibes from Mawile being suspicious, why doesn't mewtini's explicit and continued push off of Mawile figure in any way to updating that read? But you're going to tell me that town aren't always internally consistent.

Also looking back, he did in fact express that MF's very first vote was towny, as he said, so that at least checks out.

You could say also that he has no real reason to not just tack on "...but I'm still suspicious" to the end of that post about MF and leave the option open, if that was his original aim. (It is somewhat funny that both he and Butterfree seemed to talk themselves from "bad vibes" to "iffy vibes" on MF on, like, this page.)