A slow process

[Bellsprout]

Despite its EV spread, it's not meant to be a wall so much as a wall killer.

 

[Luxcario]

Despite its EV spread, it's not meant to be a wall so much as a wall killer.

Despite what's EV spread?

 

[Spatz]

Despite what's EV spread?

Torkoal's.

Read the last post of the previous page if confused by first post of current page.
-Forum Aid 101

 

[Bellsprout]

Entry #3 - "Weak" Lead

Ninetales [Support/Annoyer Variant]
Timid/Drought @ Focus Sash
Safeguard / Disable / Solarbeam / Grudge
56-180 HP / 72-196 Sp.ATT / 252 SPD​

Most Ninetales I ever see in B/W competitive battling now are used strictly (and I mean they either die on the same turn or are never used productively for the rest of the battle) for setting up Sun. That being the case, I've decided to create one that is as minimally useless as possible, with my own little twist. Solarbeam is an obvious counterstrike to Ninetales' primary weaknesses if they decide to stay in against it, but the main use is to set up status protection and to make life Hell for Choice leads. Enter Disable and Grudge. Focus Sash is critical here to make Grudge viable, while Disable is a useful option to stop buffers as well as Choice users.

 

[Bellsprout]

Entry #4 - Omniwall?

Sableye [Special Wall Variant]
Sassy/Prankster @ Leftovers
Foul Play / Calm Mind / Shadow Ball / Moonlight
252 HP / 128 DEF / 128 Sp.DEF​

Zero weaknesses. Three immunities. Priority healing. And the ability to get as high as 844 Sp.DEF. Not to mention, keeping in line with my Sun team, Moonlight's healing power is boosted. Shadow Ball for obvious STAB as well as taking advantage of the other side of Calm Mind's positive effect. Foul Play, also for STAB, and to nullify the fact that Sableye has absolutely no Attack EV investment whatsoever. Maybe a better EV spread for the defenses depending on IV's, but otherwise I really like this idea.

 

[Adriane]

Entry #3 - "Weak" Lead

Ninetales [Support/Annoyer Variant]
Timid/Drought @ Focus Sash
Safeguard / Disable / Solarbeam / Grudge
56-180 HP / 72-196 Sp.ATT / 252 SPD​

Most Ninetales I ever see in B/W competitive battling now are used strictly (and I mean they either die on the same turn or are never used productively for the rest of the battle) for setting up Sun. That being the case, I've decided to create one that is as minimally useless as possible, with my own little twist. Solarbeam is an obvious counterstrike to Ninetales' primary weaknesses if they decide to stay in against it, but the main use is to set up status protection and to make life Hell for Choice leads. Enter Disable and Grudge. Focus Sash is critical here to make Grudge viable, while Disable is a useful option to stop buffers as well as Choice users.

I'm not sure how I feel about Grudge being the fulcrum of this set. Ideally you want to keep your weather starter alive in case the weather changes.

 

[blazheirio889]

Entry #3 - "Weak" Lead

Ninetales [Support/Annoyer Variant]
Timid/Drought @ Focus Sash
Safeguard / Disable / Solarbeam / Grudge
56-180 HP / 72-196 Sp.ATT / 252 SPD​

Most Ninetales I ever see in B/W competitive battling now are used strictly (and I mean they either die on the same turn or are never used productively for the rest of the battle) for setting up Sun. That being the case, I've decided to create one that is as minimally useless as possible, with my own little twist. Solarbeam is an obvious counterstrike to Ninetales' primary weaknesses if they decide to stay in against it, but the main use is to set up status protection and to make life Hell for Choice leads. Enter Disable and Grudge. Focus Sash is critical here to make Grudge viable, while Disable is a useful option to stop buffers as well as Choice users.

In addition to what Alvyren said, Ninetales has better support options: Will-o-Wisp, for example. As far as I've seen, not many Pokemon, if at all, use Safeguard. Also, you should definitely not use Solarbeam. If a Tyranitar or Politoed switches in when you click it (and that's pretty likely), you'll be forced to spend a turn charging, you'll probably be killed, and if you aren't then the Solarbeam will be much weaker anyway.

 

[Adriane]

For what it's worth, I have used Solarbeam fairly successfully on my Overheat/Solarbeam/Power Swap/Will-o-Wisp Ninetales. It's still very risky if the opponent's weather starter is alive, though, and I'd really prefer to use Energy Ball if only Ninetales didn't have such low SpA (and no Nasty Plot/Calm Mind to boost it)

 

[blazheirio889]

I recall seeing that set somewhere, though I'm pretty sure that Solarbeam wasn't the third move. Anyway, if you have stellar prediction skills, Solarbeam will work, but losing your weather starter to your opponent's is too risky imo.

There's Hypnosis if you want to take risks, but since Ninetales it's so frail it's generally not a good option. Substitute to scout switches, etc... Ninetales is a bit limited in what it can do. You may want to try Safeguard first, as Ninetales may bait Toxics and such, but if you don't seem to use it often then swap it for something else.

Another set to consider could be Scarfed Ninetales. Drought-boosted Overheat is lethal, and a super-fast Will-o-Wisp provides great utility.

But basically, don't use grudge because that involves sacking Ninetales, and you need to conserve it to change the weather back in your favour.

 

[Bellsprout]

Fair enough on the defense of keeping the auto-Weather poke. Most of the time when I've seen a Ninetales used, it was hardly utilized to what I always imagined its potential to be. But, thank you for the criticisms.

Ninetales [Support Variant]
Timid/Drought @ Choice Scarf/Focus Sash
Overheat / Will-o-Wisp / Safeguard / Substitute
56-180 HP / 72-196 Sp.ATT / 252 SPD​

Tried to incorporate your suggestions. Overheat for the obvious quick and hard STAB if I have the advantage. Substitute and WoW/Safeguard if I don't. I really like the idea of fast support leads simply for the sake of added protection for safe scouting and skirmishing for the first few turns. And since there are very few true Clerics out there that can even take a STAB Overheat, I'm not really worried about them coming out to counter a Will-o-Wisp too quickly. Obviously, Scarf doesn't work too well for this set, which is why I'm leaning toward the Sash. But, that's also why I have full SPD investment, allowing it to top off at 328 (tied for #69 overall among +nature, non-Scarfed pokes).

 

[blazheirio889]

You may as well have leftovers for increased survivability. The sash won't do much if you're switching about a lot (which you probably will be) due to entry hazards. And you might want to consider Power Swap to stick your -2 sp. atk after Overheat on incoming special attackers. With Will-o-Wisp, it neuters practically any attacker. Of particular note is that if you use Power Swap, Ninetales makes a good check for Volcarona, being able to take its QD boosts and giving it -2 sp. atk in return.

 

[Bellsprout]

Please tell me I'm misunderstanding the mechanics of this:

Jolly/Pickpocket @ none
Fake Out / Swords Dance / Fling / Ice Shard
252 ATT / 252 SPD​

Serebii.net says that Pickpocket activates only when the Pickpocketing pokémon RECEIVES a physical attack. I'm hoping that this may be some sort of typo or misunderstanding of the ability, as I would love to design this similar to the Toxic Orb/Fling combo, except using the opponents' items against them.

 

[Superbird]

It's only when you're hit by a contact attack.

 

[Bellsprout]

Drat. That rather defeats the entire purpose.

 

[Bellsprout]

I was recently thinking about the post that started this entire thread, so I decided to revamp it with some of the suggestions I found on here. I feel this is more balanced than the original idea, and it could work more effectively with the same gimmick.

Naive / Hydration @ Leftovers
Struggle Bug / Acid Armor / Focus Blast / Guard Split
252 HP / 96 Sp.ATT / 160 SPD​

I realize I'm sacrificing two methods of recovery, and I haven't tested this set at all yet, so I'm still not certain of its viable use. Guard Split works under the same gimmick as before, using Accelgor's miserable defenses to its advantage by averaging them out with its opponent. Struggle Bug and Acid Armor combine for effectively boosting Accelgor's defenses after the initial boost. I decided with Focus Blast as the killer move (as Quidam initially suggested earlier in the post). I realize this moveset is completely walled by Poison-, Ghost- and Flying-types, but no set is perfect after all. EV spread remains the same, still managing to outspeed everything up to Electrode by a single point so the rest could go into Special Attack.

While I'm here, I may as well stretch this post out. These are a couple that I recently finished training. C+C, please.

Modest / Sniper @ Scope Lens
Brine / Dragon Pulse / Ice Beam / Focus Energy
252 Sp.ATT / 252 SPD

Adamant / Regenerator @ Leftovers
Fake Out / Drain Punch / U-turn / Detect
252 ATT / 252 SPD​

I've put these two through the Gear Station and found the two of them alone infinitely more useful than any of my in-game team. Kingdra's main gimmick, obviously, is to score critical hits more often with Focus Energy and Scope Lens. With the Sniper ability, she'll effectively be dealing 3x normal damage on a considerably frequent basis. I've still got an internal conflict going on about whether or not to replace Brine with Hydro Pump.

I was honestly aiming for a Jolly Mienshao, but I got this one first, so I decided to run with it. This one (from what I've seen) is pretty standard. Fake Out to start, Drain Punch for STAB and one of three ways to recover HP, and U-turn for easy damage on Psychic-types as well as a nice escape route. Nothing special about this one, but I always liked Mienshao since my first run through the game.

 

[Bellsprout]

I'm starting to feel like I'm spamming my own thread now, but whatever. My ideas keep coming, and I feel the need to put them somewhere. This one was recently inspired by a Youtube video featuring Ash battling Homika (in the anime), one of the new gym leaders from Black/White 2.

Adamant / Weak Armor @ Chesto Berry
Body Slam / Stockpile / Gunk Shot / Rest
252 HP / 252 ATT​

Utilizing Weak Armor correctly is the key to the set. Obviously, it's completely dependent on the opponent's move selection, which is why I opted for complete ATT investment in case the opponent doesn't bite. Garbodor receives a SPD boost for each physical hit endured while using Stockpile to counter the reduction in DEF as well as bolstering its SpDEF. The hope is that Garbodor's HP and defenses can sustain it long enough to increase its SPD to a point that it's faster than the opponent. Rest+Chesto Berry is a classic combination to give Garbodor a one-time, full-health restoration to prepare it to sweep on +X SPD with Body Slam and Gunk Shot supported by an ATT stat of 317 with the added potential of either PRZ or PSN inflicted.

As always, C+C please.

 

[Superbird]

I recall Chief Zackrai experimenting with a Swalot set whose nature was similar to this. He used a combination of Stockpile and Spit up, which served two purposes - to raise Defense and then to hit stuff with strong attacks. Spit up has uncannily high power - 100 times the amount stockpiled, so after only one stockpile it's quite strong, and after 2 stockpiles it's more powerful than STAB Gunk Shot.

What I mean is it might be possible to replace Body Slam with Spit Up, though you'd have to see how that worked.

 

[surskitty]

I recall Chief Zackrai experimenting with a Swalot set whose nature was similar to this. He used a combination of Stockpile and Spit up, which served two purposes - to raise Defense and then to hit stuff with strong attacks. Spit up has uncannily high power - 100 times the amount stockpiled, so after only one stockpile it's quite strong, and after 2 stockpiles it's more powerful than STAB Gunk Shot.

What I mean is it might be possible to replace Body Slam with Spit Up, though you'd have to see how that worked.

Using Spit Up gets rid of your stockpile stat boosts and Stockpile 1 leaves Spit Up weaker than Return. Even at Stockpile 3, you'd still be doing more damage if you never bothered Stockpiling and just used Return every round. Hell, Body Slam still averages higher than Stockpile + Spit Up and you then have a paralysis chance. Ehhh.

 

[Bellsprout]

Hell, Body Slam still averages higher than Stockpile + Spit Up and you then have a paralysis chance. Ehhh.

Which was really one of the key points in my move selection, especially since Garbodor's physical move pool is not extremely diverse when it comes to hard-hitting attacks. The idea of Stockpile/Spit Up has some appeal, but the point is to mitigate defense loss while still increasing speed. One shot at a Stockpile/Spit Up gives me an overall net of zero. In this case, however, I at least get my special defense boosted even if I'm breaking even on physical defense. On top of all that, though, Garbodor can't even learn Spit Up.

 

[Adriane]

On top of all that, though, Garbodor can't even learn Spit Up.

I think Game Freak realised that Spit Up is terrible and nobody uses it while Stockpile is actually neat now.