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Aliens

You're right, sorry. I didn't really think about it enough, but I guess I was just trying to make the point, like you said, about life being "not strictly defined". I should have given it more thought, sorry.

Anyway, the point is that we shouldn't restrict ourselves to searching for only life similar to us. While it would probably be the easiest to recognize, there's no telling what we could miss if we didn't consider all the possibilities.
 
For all we know, the universe is endless, or nearly so. So, it wouldn't come as a huge surprise that somewhere out ther is some other form of life, intelligent or not.
 
This isn't a debate. Anyone would be stupid to suggest that aliens do not exist, and seeing as most who do so are religious fundamentalists it should come as no surprise. You can't dub the Earth as the only planet with life; it would be illogical. Other planets apart from our solar system do exist in our galaxy and the universe contains millioms of galaxies - there are possibilities, perhaps even probabilities, that life could exist on them.
 
This isn't a debate. Anyone would be stupid to suggest that aliens do not exist, and seeing as most who do so are religious fundamentalists it should come as no surprise. You can't dub the Earth as the only planet with life; it would be illogical. Other planets apart from our solar system do exist in our galaxy and the universe contains millioms of galaxies - there are possibilities, perhaps even probabilities, that life could exist on them.


Um, it is a debate. I just so happens everyone on here believes that there aliens. If someone gave me solid proof that they couldn't exist, I'd be like, "Oh, OK, thanks."

:P
 
The universe being huge doesn't outright prove aliens exist. Sure, it does make them likely, but not totally proven.

Also, aliens could be just about anywhere outside Earth. Because it's not like they are going to be lifeforms just like the ones found in our planet. That could be it, but also could be something else.

We assume aliens live on planets -- while they could be on stars, comets or just really hanging around the universe. We assume we can see them -- but can we? We assume they are material -- but are them? This could go on forever.

Basically: they could be nonexistant, they could be just outside our atmosphere, they could be anything. All I know is, mankind will be extremely hard-pressed to confirm anything.
 
^ What he said. This is isn't really a great debate, simply because on a smallish forum like this, there is a smaller amount of people to disagree with each other on a subject which doesn't really cause controversy, unlike some topics.

ungulateman
 
This isn't a debate. Anyone would be stupid to suggest that aliens do not exist, and seeing as most who do so are religious fundamentalists it should come as no surprise. You can't dub the Earth as the only planet with life; it would be illogical. Other planets apart from our solar system do exist in our galaxy and the universe contains millioms of galaxies - there are possibilities, perhaps even probabilities, that life could exist on them.

why do you think that all religious fundamentalists are stupid? you should be just a tad more accepting - not everyone agrees with you...

oh yeah, for everyone who believes that an immortal, omnipotent God created the universe, the Earth being the sole living planet really is quite logical.
 
why do you think that all religious fundamentalists are stupid? you should be just a tad more accepting - not everyone agrees with you...

oh yeah, for everyone who believes that an immortal, omnipotent God created the universe, the Earth being the sole living planet really is quite logical.
But why would such a person care about logic?
 
Not all religious fundamentalists are stupid. Many don't use their intelligence properly. Infuriating.
 
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Technically, if the universe is infinite, there will be an infinite number of planets, thus meaning that there would be other life in the universe (not strictly relevant, but hey) and not only that, but any given specification of life would be out there (yay, Pokémon is real if the universe is infinite!) [. ...]
But if the universe is finite, then none of this is true.
I hope it is infinite.
 
and not only that, but any given specification of life would be out there (yay, Pokémon is real if the universe is infinite!)
You're assuming the universe generates new planets as it expands. It probably doesn't.

In any case - no matter how many times you toss a six-sided die, you'll never roll a seven...
 
There's one thing that totally makes me not doubt there are aliens exist. Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot speech.

"We succeeded in taking that picture [from deep space], and, if you look at it, you see a dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever lived, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.

The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity -- in all this vastness -- there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

And to quote Richard Dawkins...

Are there things about the Universe that will be forever beyond our grasp? Are there things about the Universe that are... ungraspable?

I mean, we are merely a DOT compared to the rest of the universe. Not even a dot. Not even an electron. If the Universe was the Milky Way, Earth would be smaller than an electron.

There are things in the universe, dealing with organic life, that will always be alien. Things we as humans will never be able to truly understand. The Universe is the grandest thing there is. So much variety here, there will be just as much variety between planets. Comparing Earth-life to another planet's life will be like comparing a human to any extremophile bacteria. Totally different.

One planet holds all the variety we know. EVERYTHING we know is limited to Earth.

Imagine how much MORE there is to the universe. Then imagine we're the pinnacle of nature's splendor. IT... It is just ridiculous. The idea there is no alien life is so arrogant.

You can say there's no proof alien are real.

Well, there's more proof they exist than that there isn't. After all, WE exist. We came to exist. Why Earth you might wonder. It could have been any different world. Well, back then it's not as if the universe was setting out to make Earth like it is. It was just following the laws of nature.

I wonder what life could exist in a gas giant. What life could exist on the moons of Saturn and Jupiter, in their oceans underneath the surface. We found water in the solar system. Meaning that water isn't unique to Earth.

In most instances where there is liquid water (Meaning we can't count the moon) there is an enviroment similar to what life here on Earth is used to. Where there is ice water, there is going to normally be traces of a time where liquid water was around. And on Mars there is. We just can't find life there now most likely.

To say there used to be life on Mars is likely. But because it is smaller, it died faster. Appearantly, fast enough that complex life never arose.

If we gave Mars an artificial magnetic field, and heated it up a bit on the surface... I say we'd be able to live there. So I'm sure you'd be able to find life there in the past, as bacteria.

If in our solar system we most likely had past life on not just one planet, but two, and there MIGHT be life on a moon orbitting a gas giant...

The chances of life as we know it aren't that small in that mind set. Not every solar system, but there will most likely be a few.

Life as we don't know it will happen though. There will be things so alien we can barely see them as life at first. But they will be alive. Triple-helix life forms, Silicon-based life forms, maybe even beings so alien no one on Earth has imagined them yet. I mean, who could have imagined some of the things on Earth alone before they were found to exist? Some things on Earth look alien - life from another world will be even MORE alien.

There's an interesting exo-biology program called Snaiad, which is a joint-effort to create a fictional biosphere of alien life. It's very interesting, and the life proposed by it is nothing like Earth life. And there will probably be things even more alien than that I bet.
 
Comparing Earth-life to another planet's life will be like comparing a human to any extremophile bacteria. Totally different.

I accept this argument, but I would point out that for all we know the converse is equally possible - that carbon-based life is the only possibility, that DNA is the only molecule capable of storing data the way it does, and so on.

But really I am just arguing for the sake of arguing. I do think it's silly that we assume all life will be like us; indeed, that all life will be identifiable to us as life. On the other hand, when it comes to searching for life, it does make sense to look at Earth-like planets; we know that this works, after all (I am very excited about future missions to Europa, I must say).
 
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@Colton

I agree greatly with your ideas, and argue them myself often, but I have to raise the point that the fact that Earth exists is by no means proof that life must exist elsewhere. And that there being not much proof against it doesn't mean that it must be true. I'd like to quote Sagan myself here:

Carl Sagan said:
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

...rewording it a bit to say that the lack of evidence against something existing should not count as proof of it existing. You can't theorize without adequate data.

Now, that's not to say that the enormity of the universe doesn't make it extremely likely that there is life elsewhere. I agree, but know one really knows.
 
True, Minnow. But it is enough proof to me. I mean, it's not undeniable proof, but it's enough for me. I mean, a book is enough for so many people to believe in a god, so something like the size of the universe, the number of stars, the probabilities of the events on Earth happening, and so on is enough for me.

I really just can't wait until we find undeniable proof though. Or at least a planet capable of supporting Earth life.

Just like Michiou Kaku said... we could be in the middle of an inter-galactic conversation and we wouldn't even know it.

I wouldn't be surprised to find aliens more advanced than us. I wouldn't be surprised to find aliens less advanced. And I wouldn't be surprised to find aliens equally advanced. So many possibilities, no need to say anything for sure one way or the other yet, when we know so little.

I just have a feeling there's no way we're alone. It's kind of scary to think we're alone in the universe.
 
response to stimuli? what the hell? what exactly is fire responding to?

Just saying... The stimuli is the fusing of the three things that fire needs: Fuel, Oxygen, Heat. The response is combustion. The result is fire.

Fire isn't alive but OCD makes me want to clear that up.

Aliens DO exist most likely. It is extremely idiotic/arrogant/selfish to assume we are alone in the Universe. I would like to stress the fact that we know very little about the universe other than its vastness and a few residents.

Hell, for what we know, there might be more than one Universe.

I would guesstimate that there is a 87.7% that there is other life out there. The sad part is, we might never find them because we are looking for Earth like planets. As stated before, life can adapt. We have adapted to Earth so why can't alien life adapt to say... Mars?
 
Just saying... The stimuli is the fusing of the three things that fire needs: Fuel, Oxygen, Heat. The response is combustion. The result is fire.
That's not really what stimulus means, though. Things falling because of gravity, freezing at low temperatures or breaking under high pressure - are those responses to stimuli as well?

(Also, where did you get 87.7% from?)
 
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