BtVS Club

[Harlequin]

You know what else is awesome? David Boreanaz's smile. It should be a capital offence to have a smille that adorable. IT IS SO GOOD.

... I realise that this is lost on most of you, given your rampant lesbianism, but perhaps Butterfree can appreciate the wonder that is David Boreanaz and his smile.

 

[Dannichu]

Haha, the other day on Fandomsecrets there was a freaking hilarious secret by someone who hated David Bananas with the firey rage of a million suns. I think the exact wording was "I scream when he's on television, I think I'd kill him if I saw him in the street".

I love how well-adjusted most internet users are.

 

[Minish]

(On a different note: what is this i don't even)

Oh God that is hilarious. XD ...apart from the fact that everyone playing Spike uses 'bloody' way too much. He didn't even abuse the word that much in the show...

Haha, the other day on Fandomsecrets there was a freaking hilarious secret by someone who hated David Bananas with the firey rage of a million suns. I think the exact wording was "I scream when he's on television, I think I'd kill him if I saw him in the street".

I love how well-adjusted most internet users are.

XD That's all I'll ever think when someone says 'Fandomsecrets' now. The one person who wants to murder David Bananas (*copies you, his surname is annoying*).

...I have no idea why I haven't posted in here for absolutely ages. But I'm watching Angel and just thought 'oh man, I wish I had somewhere to ramble about Buffyverse stuff' and then was like '...OMG THE BUFFY CLUB :D'

A few episodes through the first season now, it's pretty good! I actually didn't expect it to be this funny, since most reviews I see tend to be all ANGEL IS DARKER AND HAS NO HUMOUR EEEE. It's very much to Buffy how Torchwood is to Doctor Who (in many ways... creepy. Well, apart from the gayness. Ain't nothing that can beat TW gayness.) but I do like it.

Also, I love how in the Critically Touched review of the Spike episode (In the Dark?) the reviewer is all 'oh wow Spike just seems like such a level above all other baddies, you can really tell he's dangerous' and... to me, he just seems like a slightly irrational wild animal at times. XD Seriously, he just comes and attacks Angel because he got bored of planning, and then pretty much gets beaten up a bit? Okay, he can fight well, but all I could see was the Spike from S5 Buffy: sliiightly pathetic, whereas in S2 Buffy he and Drusilla were very much 'oh my god they are so on a different level'. Meh.

And I bought S5 of Angel for no reason in particular other than... it was there in a shop. To anyone who's watched all of Angel, will it be okay to watch it and not get attacked my too many spoilers I know all about Connor and Darla (wtf btw), Cordelia/Connor, the gist of Illyria, that Spike's come back (obviously), and that Doyle died over three seasons ago. Really I just don't want the other seasons to be ruined if I go ahead and watch S5, like if the show completely changed during that period. I will watch the rest of Angel eventually, I... just want to see Spike. And I'm shameless about it. XD; Anyone help me out here? I mean, it won't be like skipping out four seasons of Buffy or anything, right? I'm impaaatient...

 

[Harlequin]

It will definitely be like skipping four seasons of Buffy. Watch them in order. Srs. I've nearly finished with season three and if I skipped to season five I'd be completely screwed.

I think I actually prefer Angel to Buffy because of the darker tone. It seems a lot more dangerous, as if the existence of all of these horrible things is actually a bad thing.

BUT YEAH, watch it as it was meant to be watched or you'll be utterly confused.

 

[Butterfree]

You know what else is awesome? David Boreanaz's smile. It should be a capital offence to have a smille that adorable. IT IS SO GOOD.

... I realise that this is lost on most of you, given your rampant lesbianism, but perhaps Butterfree can appreciate the wonder that is David Boreanaz and his smile.

David Boreanaz does nothing for me, sorry. :( Okay, slightly more when he smiles, but Angel does awfully little smiling, and even when he does it's more "oh, look at that, he smiled".

To be honest, I think one of the reasons I'm not as interested in Angel as in Buffy is that I still find him kind of boring, both character and actor. That and his damned voice is so deep and mumbly that I can never make out half of his lines without subtitles. <_<

I wish I could like Angel more because then I could actually get a move on with the series and get to season five which has Spike and stuff. D:

 

[Minish]

David Boreanaz does nothing for me, sorry. :( Okay, slightly more when he smiles, but Angel does awfully little smiling, and even when he does it's more "oh, look at that, he smiled".

Same. And I should be allowed to say so since I'm only half a rampant lesbian. XP He's just... kind of blah, for lack of a better word. Not exactly boring like how I find Tara, but... blah.

There have been moments where I really like Angel -- I have no idea what makes him different in these moments, but it tends to be where he can be all deadpan and derisive. Thinking of Halloween (I think) where he was all 'whut why is buffy an idiot today?' and clueless.

I have to say that I like him a bit more in Angel. The emoness is a liiiittle too cliché and cheesy for my liking, but like Danni said... er, at some point, he's a lot more likeable in his own show. Also, I love Doyle. <3 And yet I know he dies soon. Sob. ;_;

Also... cheers, Harlequin. Definitely going to watch all of it before 5 now. But argh, the lack of Spike depresses me.

Speaking of Spike, I feel a little creeped out that in In the Dark, Spike was pretty much S2 psychopath Spike, and then... chronologically, he's staying in Giles' house as soon as he returns to Sunnydale. I know you don't know he just tried to murder (and got someone to torture) your boyfriend/ex, but still... creeps me out a little. I'm starting to see why so many people find the whole subject of Spike and his relations with the Scoobies a little disturbing at times.

And I've never gotten over how downright dangerous he was when they were all 'We don't like Spike, but he's fairly useful so we don't mind when he talks to us' in S5 and parts of S4. I know he was all chip'd up, but that doesn't exactly take all his danger away. Just scares me a little. :/

 

[Dannichu]

I'm totally with you on the creepiness of everyone suddenly accepting Spike into the big Scooby family. I never understood why Buffy didn't stake him in S4 - yes, he was useful, but he was obviously a loose cannon and it seemed irresponsible of Buffy not to stake him on sight. :/

I haven't seen any of Angel S5, but I've heard that a) there's a hilarious episode with Spike involving a trip to Rome (??), and b) while most Buffy fans enjoy seeing him again, his sudden presence kinda rocks the boat and disrupts the group dynamic Angel and co. had before. Dunno if that's true.

 

[Minish]

But then, you also have to worry about Anya. I've never been able to truly love her as much as other fans do because of, well, she was a vengeance demon. Who tortured men. And it's pretty much cheerfully referred to a few times, but nobody ever feels particularly off about it -- S7 only proves how easily she could just go back to her job.

Maybe I missed something in the show or something, it just seemed to me that Anyanka and Anya were pretty much treated the same by the Scoobies when she was in S7, and she was accepted 100%, way faster than Tara was.

I already knew Anya was going to be part of the Scoobies before I watched, so when I watched the Wish I was pretty much thinking 'um... HOW can this be the same Anya everyone always talks about?'

 

[Harlequin]

fffff I hate you guys and your unappreciation of David Boreanaz. His acting skills aren't the best but he's so hot that I just don't care. And when he does that adorable dorky smile it's just swoooon.

@Danni: yyyyyeah for some reason Spike and Angel end up in Rome and there's this thing with this guy and yeah. It's mentioned in the comics, too!

@Cirrus: well I think the difference with Anya is that torturing men was Anya's job, and she put away the evil when she became a human. Plus her heart wasn't really in it when she took up the job after HER HEARTBREAK, woe. Spike was a soulless, evil bastard who was really more like an animal than a person at times.

Plus Anya was human -- if you've noticed there's a big, big difference between "humans" and "non-humans" in Buffy. Non-humans tend to have little to no value unless it's for the plot, whereas humans are rarely killed unless their irredeemably evil.

idk Anya had the funniest lines so you couldn't hate her, really. she was awesome.

 

[Butterfree]

I like messed-up characters who do messed-up things. Yay for Spike and Anya! :D

...okay so it doesn't quite make sense they'd keep them around but THEY'RE HILARIOUS AND AWESOME TO WATCH AND THAT MAKES IT OKAY. Totally. <_<

 

[Minish]

fffff I hate you guys and your unappreciation of David Boreanaz. His acting skills aren't the best but he's so hot that I just don't care. And when he does that adorable dorky smile it's just swoooon.

@Danni: yyyyyeah for some reason Spike and Angel end up in Rome and there's this thing with this guy and yeah. It's mentioned in the comics, too!

@Cirrus: well I think the difference with Anya is that torturing men was Anya's job, and she put away the evil when she became a human. Plus her heart wasn't really in it when she took up the job after HER HEARTBREAK, woe. Spike was a soulless, evil bastard who was really more like an animal than a person at times.

Plus Anya was human -- if you've noticed there's a big, big difference between "humans" and "non-humans" in Buffy. Non-humans tend to have little to no value unless it's for the plot, whereas humans are rarely killed unless their irredeemably evil.

idk Anya had the funniest lines so you couldn't hate her, really. she was awesome.

But... those are such silly reasons. :/ There was a big difference between humans and non-humans, but I thought the point was that by the end of the entire show, everyone had learnt that things simply weren't that black and white.

Just because it was her 'job' doesn't mean it's right. That means Anya actually had a choice, whereas Spike didn't. And yet Spike still was so different from an ordinary vampire when he got the chip. I think it's even worse that Anya should be excused just because it was her 'job'. And sure, she put the evil away when she became human -- but it was established that it wasn't because she saw such a big difference between good and evil. She never showed any remorse whatsoever. I know that was played for comedy value, but it still seems totally off when Spike was focused on so much.

Spike was a soulless, evil bastard, but he knew that, I think. Whereas Anya never acted like she saw much difference in being how she used to be and what she became beyond "oh no this means I'm mortal!".

And heyyy, I totally don't hate Anya! I love her. XD It's just that to me, this seems a bit weird.

 

[Lupine Volt]

Well, finally found this place! I'm also a Buffy-holic(And an Angel-Holic as soon as Hulu begins the first season again). I've only seen the first three seasons, but I love the show. It's...captivating. It draws you in.

And, on the note of David Boreanaz, I'd have to agree. He has a nice smile. (Him and Jeff Davis...)

Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to hunt down the fourth season. *Off to Google*

 

[Dannichu]

I thought the point was that by the end of the entire show, everyone had learnt that things simply weren't that black and white.

This is a big part of the reason why I didn't enjoy S7. The whole show, pretty much from Giles's excellent quote in Lie to Me; "It's terribly simple. The good-guys are stalwart and true. The bad-guys are easily distinguished by their pointy horns or black hats and we always defeat them and save the day. Nobody ever dies... and everybody lives happily ever after.", sets about dismantling everything he says, with the enemies and friends in every season getting less black-and-white good-and-evil until the the ultimate blurring of the lines in the S6 finale... and then in S7 we just go back to everything being handily set out in terms of moral absolutes. What was black-and-white about Caleb? And could they have possibly been less subtle than making the S7 Big Bad the essence of all evil itself?

Spoiler: S7

They could have done excellent things with Willow having to seek redemption for all the bad she did in S6, but there's an episode of readjustment and that's about it. "She's Willow! Of course she's a good guy!" S7 had so, so much potential, but it tripped over itself again and again.

Well, finally found this place! I'm also a Buffy-holic(And an Angel-Holic as soon as Hulu begins the first season again). I've only seen the first three seasons, but I love the show. It's...captivating. It draws you in.

And, on the note of David Boreanaz, I'd have to agree. He has a nice smile. (Him and Jeff Davis...)

Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to hunt down the fourth season. *Off to Google*

Eeeeee! :DDD I absolutely adore S4. The plot's a bit eh, but the episodes are mostly absolutely fantastic in every way <3

Who's your favourite chracter?

 

[Minish]

I agree with you on S7, Dannichu. Caleb was pretty much the worst villain of the entire show, I have no idea why he was even brought in. Why was the S7 Big Bad's main trait 'oh look I'm a misogynist!' ...there are a lot of other ideas the show has explored other than feminism. And you're right, there was nothing grey about him at all, it was like the creators had just completely blanked out while creating a final villain.

I loved what the First could have been. I only realised near the end of S7 that the First wasn't in fact, the First Slayer, which was what I had thought -- it's why whenever I hear "Now through the smoke, she calls to me..." in OMWF, I think of my first assumption, that it's the First Slayer. I have no idea why I did, by the way, I just think they could have done more with the Slayer. Why couldn't the S7 Big Bad be something cool like the angry, pained First Slayer? Her... spirit or whatever could be what Buffy could have become, angry at what she had had to become.

...maybe that's just me. o_O Still think it would have been more interesting. Plus, I would have liked to learn more about earlier Slayers and how they first came about, rather than "a bunch of men did it".

I liked S4 a lot when I first watched it, but then S5 came about and I kind of forgot about it. Somehow I got it into my head that I even disliked S4, but now I'm realising just how many good episodes were in it. <3 Plus I loved the whole collegy aspect, and it was the first time when I realised how amazing real these characters were, because Willow and Buffy in particular had grown so much since S1 in a very believable, interesting way. Plus it's before Willow started going downhill as a character. :(

Also, I found this and think it's hilarious. XD For anyone who's seen Merlin...

Also also, still watching Angel. "I've Got You Under My Skin" was good, "She" was not as bad as people say, and... yeah. Oh and I'm actually liking Wesley, totally didn't expect that. He's adorable!

 

[Dannichu]

It's not so much that they made Caleb a mysogynist that annoyed me so much - the show has explored other issues than feminism, but it's still very much a core value of the show; the entire premise of Buffy was to subvert the trope of the blonde teenage girl who gets killed by the monsters in dark alleyways, and I've read more than one interview with Joss (there's an especially great one at the beginning of the Fray graphic novel) where he said most of his creations came from him being really annoyed at a lack of decent female characters in comics when he was growing up - but how badly done and heavy-handled it was. Again, comparing to the S6 finale (which, for the record, I still don't like very much), it was

Spoiler: S6

very well-done, I thought, to have traditionally feminine, non-offensive virtues like friendship save the day, rather than Buffy's masculine all-out violence, with extra props because the friendship and love came from a male character, rather than a female one.

I love that feminism and gender relations were explored so much within the series, but I think it was a huge disservice to the show to have Caleb be "MYSOGYNIST MAN!!", when domination of women is almost always done in a much more subtle, unassuming way.

Spoiler: S4

S4 was the time when Buffy went from being something "Really cool" to "OMG best show ever" for me. I've said it before, I think, but I think it's extra-special for me because I watched it shortly after just having started university and coming up against all the same things that Buffy did in the first few episodes - being alone in a crowd, everyone else knowing what they're doing, life at home continuing without you - and Willow's relationship with Tara was, I thought, fantastically done. The fact that so many of the episodes are brilliant beyond words - A New Man, Hush, Something Blue, New Moon Rising, Fear Itself, Who Are You?, Restless, etc. only adds to why I love it so much.

Gaaah, I need to watch Merlin ):

 

[Lupine Volt]

Eeeeee! :DDD I absolutely adore S4. The plot's a bit eh, but the episodes are mostly absolutely fantastic in every way <3

Who's your favourite chracter?

Xander at the moment. Mostly because I love the sheer comic relief of him.

"For some reason, beating up that pirate gave me a wierd sense of closure..."

I actually found Buffy after looking up Nicolas Brendan from when he first appeared on Criminal Minds. *Amazing, because I find most of the shows that I like through this forum or TV Tropes.*

 

[Minish]

I love that feminism and gender relations were explored so much within the series, but I think it was a huge disservice to the show to have Caleb be "MYSOGYNIST MAN!!", when domination of women is almost always done in a much more subtle, unassuming way.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It just seemed like such a strange character to bring in after six seasons of having feminist issues explored creatively and cleverly. I was expecting the Big Bad to be something a little bigger and better than Caleb; I actually try and convince myself the First was the real Big Bad of the season (which could be said, actually), even though the First only works with my own interpretation...

Spoiler: S4

S4 was the time when Buffy went from being something "Really cool" to "OMG best show ever" for me. I've said it before, I think, but I think it's extra-special for me because I watched it shortly after just having started university and coming up against all the same things that Buffy did in the first few episodes - being alone in a crowd, everyone else knowing what they're doing, life at home continuing without you - and Willow's relationship with Tara was, I thought, fantastically done. The fact that so many of the episodes are brilliant beyond words - A New Man, Hush, Something Blue, New Moon Rising, Fear Itself, Who Are You?, Restless, etc. only adds to why I love it so much.

Gaaah, I need to watch Merlin ):

Heh, I think that happened to me somewhere between S4 and S5, but I remember feeling quite close to S2, even though it was a very American sort of highschool. The outcast trio rarely inspires me much anymore, but for some reason, I felt like I really saw connections with the Scoobies and with my own circle of friends. Plus I adored the geekiness of Willow. <3 S2 isn't one of my favourite seasons anymore, but I think it was when the show was amazing without ever trying too hard. I think S4 and S5 were better, but they were more consciously better -- S2 always seemed so realistic and character-driven. Plus I loved the whole slightly despairing highschooly feeling to the whole season, maybe due to the way it was shot or something. I liked how everything felt brighter around S4 and S5 though too, like everything was just more grown-up when they reached college.

Okay, now I'm babbling. XD

And oops, I thought you'd watched Merlin before, haha. I know Harlequin has though... well, I think... it's pretty cool.

Also, still watching Angel. Five by Five was absolutely heartbreaking. ;_; Although I have to say, I absolutely adore Wesley. He's in the same position as Spike -- I disliked them both when they first appeared, but now I love them... for some reason that happens a lot to me. XD Is it just me or is there quite a bit of Angel/Wesley slashiness in early S2? Maybe it's just because I paused it yesterday to get something, and when I came back it looked like they were in, er... very compromising positions. And then I unpaused it and Wesley said "...now about the whole naked thing." I'm sure it would have all made sense if I had remembered the previous scene, but... yeah, rather amusing when watched out of context. XDD

 

[Minish]

I know this is double posting, but man, I don't care. Nobody's posted for aaages. ;-; Plus this thread is totally worth being bumped up~

Okay, I'm in the middle of watching Season 5 of Angel now. And it has been an amazing ride. I know Buffy is clearly the superior show, but Angel has been so much more consistent in quality, when considering S6-7 of Buffy.

I also like Angel's characters, overall, maybe a little bit more. Don't get me wrong, I adore Giles, Spike, Willow and Buffy, but most of the other characters (I'm thinking Xander and Tara in particular, as well as Anya, Dawn etc.) but Angel's have gripped me a lot more. Gunn and post-S3 Cordelia are a bit meh but I can't remember loving characters more than Wesley and Fred for a long time.

I even grew to like Angel! I'm going to spoiler the next load...

Spoiler: S3-4

I'd pretty much heard this about late Angel: "Darla comes back and gets pregnant, and it makes no sense. Angel gets a son who's never explained, who ends up getting into a relationship with Connor. Again, makes no sense. YMMV." so I was not expecting anything good. However, I was pleasantly surprised... should have placed more faith in Joss, really.

Connor didn't annoy me as much as he did to most people, but then I was never all that annoyed with Dawn, so yeah, figures. I thought his ultimate fate was a really nice touch. Cordelia/Connor was... um, yeah, wtf, but at least that was actually explained and it *wasn't* really Cordelia.

Speaking of Cordelia, Angel/Cordelia was as dull as I expected. David and Charisma have no chemistry whatsoever onscreen, it was just overall a mistake, although sweet, I suppose. I actually like Buffy/Angel a whole lot more. But hey, that's just one thing I don't like.

Jasmine was creepy, and pretty awesome, I think. I wanted more focus on the creepiness because I thought that was more interesting than "actually... I just want everyone to be happy, I suppose you're in my way so KIIIILL", but eh.

Oh, and uh... WESLEY. Oh my god. I can't believe I actually thought "whyyyy" when I heard he was going to be a major character, the development he got was just... absolutely amazing. It really makes me happy that he gets universal love like Giles does, because his development really needs to be recognised for the awesomeness that it is. He probably turned out my favourite Buffyverse character, pushing Spike out of the way with ease. :D He completely made S3. Oh, and can I say hot? Stubbly!Wesley makes me literally weak at the knees. <3 Please tell me you agree with me, Harlequin? D:

Fred, too, is amazing. I was a bit 'eh' about her from maybe when she appeared to S4, but I think I still adored her all along, and now I just flat-out love her. I think she's getting the love everyone thinks I should have given to Tara, since they have sort of similar roles, being feminine and the nurturers of the group, but she always had a kind of intelligent badassery that Tara never had. I even used to hate the Texan accent... oh Fred, how you changed me. <3

Spoiler: S5/all

I've just started S5 now, but... I knew Fred's death was coming (oh and I know about Wesley too, ffs) but that didn't make it any easier. Goddamnit Joss, why do you kill off characters when they're finally with the person they love?

 

[Dannichu]

Oh, the

Spoiler: Angel S5/Buffy S6

death of Fred hurts. So, so much ): The fact it's drawn out is physically painful, but still, I think, less so than Tara's sudden death because at least they had a chance to say goodbye. But Joss really knows how to hurt his audience so, so badly ):
That episode where Fred's parents come along and Illyria pretends to be Fred and Wesley is all ;~; was extremely well-done. Damn you, Joss.

Am I the only person who thinks that Spike coming along in S5 kind of messed up the group dynamic that the Angel group had?

I still don't like it as much as Buffy, both plot- and character-wise, but I haven't seen all of it, so I can't say stuff with any authority. I do want to watch it all sometime, though.

You know who I don't get? Harmony. I never really liked her, but Joss keeps bringing her into Buffyverse stuff; I've only glanced at the comics, but she's all over that, and I just don't get it. @.@ She's such an exaggerated character, I find it really hard to care about someone so one-dimensional. She's basically an extremely exaggerated Cordelia.

 

[Minish]

Oh, the

Spoiler: Angel S5/Buffy S6

death of Fred hurts. So, so much ): The fact it's drawn out is physically painful, but still, I think, less so than Tara's sudden death because at least they had a chance to say goodbye. But Joss really knows how to hurt his audience so, so badly ):
That episode where Fred's parents come along and Illyria pretends to be Fred and Wesley is all ;~; was extremely well-done. Damn you, Joss.

Am I the only person who thinks that Spike coming along in S5 kind of messed up the group dynamic that the Angel group had?

I still don't like it as much as Buffy, both plot- and character-wise, but I haven't seen all of it, so I can't say stuff with any authority. I do want to watch it all sometime, though.

You know who I don't get? Harmony. I never really liked her, but Joss keeps bringing her into Buffyverse stuff; I've only glanced at the comics, but she's all over that, and I just don't get it. @.@ She's such an exaggerated character, I find it really hard to care about someone so one-dimensional. She's basically an extremely exaggerated Cordelia.

Spoiler: S5 Angel/S6 Buffy

I think it was a lot worse than Tara's, but hey, I never really felt much of a connection with Tara whereas I absolutely fell in love with Fred. I even knew it was going to happen; the exact episode too. What makes it even worse is that in the episode before she and Wesley finally got together at the end and it was the sweetest thing I'd ever seen and just cried buckets.

It didn't help that all the other characters were completely broken too; Angel said something like "I have one thing to say... Winifred Burkle. Go." as they were about to split up and find out what the hell was wrong with her. She wasn't a warrior, she wasn't a fighter, and yet she still had to die.

I love Wesley a tiny bit more than Fred (not saying much; they're pretty much my favourite Buffyverse characters now with Giles following) and yet his death wasn't as bad because of the way it was treated by the other characters. Just that there was a whole episode focusing on Fred's death and it was done so well oh God I'm starting to cry again now. XD;

I actually think Joss just likes killing off characters that aren't ready for it. You said it before; the characters that are brought back are ones that were ready for it. Wesley was brought back as a not-quite-ghost because of his contract with Wolfram & Heart in the Angel comics, but he was ready to die in battle.

Also about Tara; hey, at least she died suddenly and felt little pain. And her soul wasn't completely annihilated like Fred's was, either. ;_; But it's horrible how Wesley/Fred and Willow/Tara were similar in that as soon as they got together or back together in the case of Willow and Tara and everything was adorable and wonderful- BAM. Damn you, Joss...

That episode where Illyria pretends to be Fred for Fred's parents is horribly sad. I knew she was going to do it and yet as soon as she walked through the door my heart seriously stopped because it looked like... like she was back. And Illyria could act like her so well, and then she turned around and was Illyria again to Wesley and it was just horrible. ;-;

And then later when Wesley is dying, and Illyria pretends to be Fred. It was so easy to forget for just a moment that Fred is completely gone.

And then in the Angel comics, apparently Fred's personality is trying to fight against Illyria's and it's too late because Wesley is gone and argh. Sigh.

Hmm... I guess you're somewhat right about Spike messing up the dynamic, but I didn't think it was so bad. Plus, he was familiar with most of the characters already, and all the Angel and Spike interaction was brilliant -- especially in the Rome episode, that was just hilarious. XD I know you said (uh, it might have been Facebook) that it was just a few episodes before the series end, but I actually liked that because it really closed up a lot of Buffyverse questions. Not to mention, Joss seems to like putting cheery episodes right before serious episodes -- Smile Time was the very episode before Hole in the World. :/

I kinda agree about Harmony. I honestly have no idea why she was added into the opening credits near the end of Angel S5 because it felt like she was featured less in those episodes than at the beginning of the series. >_> And yet Lorne had to fight for the entire show to get into the credits!

Spoiler: S5

Another thing; it was horrible when Lorne left in Not Fade Away, so broken. ;_; I was never a huge fan of him but that just broke me. Uh, again.

Sorry, I can really ramble about Angel at the moment. X3 I don't think I'll ever get over Fred and Wesley. The only thing worse thing Joss could have been done would be if Giles had been brutally murdered or something by evil!Willow in Buffy S6. :/