Cats (2019) Mafia

[Tangrowth]

keldeo i'm answering your other question still, but i feel like i should probably clarify that my point was that i was concerned that he was weirdly optics-focused in an EoD scenario rather than wagoninvestigating/catching up

i can't think of a good way to say this that doesnt come across as bonus optics, but fwiw i totally admit that my priorities were scrambled last EoD

What do you mean by bonus optics?

 

[Tangrowth]

So... I read everything super quickly, but I'm not sure how much of it I truly absorbed. It does seem like VM's case is the main Thing of Interest. I'm still not really sure how to interpret it, so perhaps someone with more VM meta can help me there, but it seems almost NAI because I could see it being a town tunnel but also something that would be easy enough to replicate as wolf, so ???

 

[Keldeo]

Spoiler: some kind of tierlist

s tier
- mewtini

townread
- rari (hypo n0). if i'm not cop, still vibing; fairly cautionless posting imo and has been drawing decently solvy-feeling comparisons (e.g. 564 and 1042, even if i didn't agree w the latter)
- kyeugh (hypo n1). if i'm not cop, also still vibing for now for reasons i've talked about
- keldeo. maybe i'll get duped here, but. i liked his EoD and the trebekkening.

townlean
- bfree, asking "why are we suspicious of stryke?" in 945/EoD feels like an unnecessary move for a wolf. not much in her iso as of yet and i am admittedly maybe getting lightpocketed because i've agreed a fair amount with the few posts she's written (on probability + voicing initial confusion with trebekkening)
- bluwiikoon (sounds pure, seems to have priorities in order. could go up but i'm tryna keep the TR section nice and lean.)
- m+7 (not much development from my last read, just putting him here for now. i talked about this a bit in 923, haven't gone back to read him over since)
- ultracool (between here and 'no thoughts')

lightly concerned (by which i mean 'not townleaning')
- superjolt, for being around but not "current" (as i think keldeo said) during EoD. i did think his initial thought-dump during his catchup felt like someone genuinely trying to piece the game together though, so ... idk.
- trebek, previously was in No Thoughts, Head Empty-ville but am moving him here for the same thing as superjolt. he came in late during EoD which obvi i'm not going to scumlean someone for, but idk if it's great that his only non-vote post during EoD was to fix his optics/clarify a post he made that wasn't related to the voting wagons. at t-minus-9 to EoD. i guess i say this w the allowance that maybe his lack of current-ness just due to being new? (newer than jolt at least) but

have feelings but have (read) commitment issues
- VM (could go in townlean for reasons i mentioned earlier. i feel like maybe we're just clashing this game, idk ...)
- herbe (could go in townlean i guess?)
- emmy (idk if i should be worried that she didn't answer my q before while she was still online/reacting inthread? i asked it kind of expecting that she'd just say "idk, just da vibe" but she wasn't super question dodgy last game)
- ILS i initially was kinda shrug in re: flavorspec because i don't really think individual flavor roles actually matter very much and wasn't going to change my read so long as he didn't talk about game content. but now he has. things i see upon reading back: he said seshas pinged him as town, which i guess could kinda go either way, idk. light rari shade that could be NAI but still makes me feel a little bit weird (the 763 - 777 thing i talked about in 946). but i like 1301 well enough i think?

no thoughts. head empty
- kokorico (i don't really have any explanation tbh, sorry)
- rnp (is rnp, and also isn't super active)
- tofu (low-poster)

other thoughts:
- would be interested in readlist from butterfree whenever she's able/willing
- VM said earlier that rari was suspiciously "quick to defend" skylar and i am kind of not seeing that tbh aside from the fact that rari's 1272 was the first response to VM's initial kyeughpush, which doesn't mean anything imo. also like, in that case i fall into the same boat because my post came right after rari's, unless VM just doesn't care as much because my voting patterns differed from kyeugh's or w/e (this should probably go in the list but, whatever. it's my post and i'm lazy hehe.)
- i miss seshas lol. bring seshas back
- i said earlier that it could be worth looking at people who flipflopped during EoD in an effort to Look Confused or noncommittally voted, thinking that "there has to have been at least one wolf present right ... ?" but i don't think the actual list really turns up much, like. trebek and maaaybe butterfree. i dunno
- mewt should probably start proofreading but she's going to hit Post reply anyway because she can't be fucked to go back over this
- unvote for now

mewtini, can you expand on your read on Superjolt here? When I said he wasn't "current" I was just saying he wasn't like, caught up on the thread while he was EODing, which I'm personally fine with since he wasn't around until Monday.

Agree with you on ILS's rari shade I think. Can you expand on what you like about ILS's 1301, Butterfree's 945, and my EOD?

 

[Keldeo]

Oh and imo, Rari in general has felt quick to push against suspicion this game. I don't remember off the top of my head exactly who they were defending, though.

 

[Trebek]

keldeo i'm answering your other question still, but i feel like i should probably clarify that my point was that i was concerned that he was weirdly optics-focused in an EoD scenario rather than wagoninvestigating/catching up

i can't think of a good way to say this that doesnt come across as bonus optics, but fwiw i totally admit that my priorities were scrambled last EoD

What do you mean by bonus optics?

i didnt want what i said to come across as "im just saying this to cover up for something i did in the past that went over suboptimally"

no clue if the phrase bonus optics means what i wanted it to there but it sounded cool :)

 

[Keldeo]

So... I read everything super quickly, but I'm not sure how much of it I truly absorbed. It does seem like VM's case is the main Thing of Interest. I'm still not really sure how to interpret it, so perhaps someone with more VM meta can help me there, but it seems almost NAI because I could see it being a town tunnel but also something that would be easy enough to replicate as wolf, so ???

Yeah I kind of feel like I've had to read him through mindset things that are like, adjacent to the case itself.

What do you think of Skylar/kyeugh right now?

 

[Keldeo]

Actually, Trebek, where do you come down about Skylar overall / where's your head at in general? I noted down that these posts that you made about it earlier seemed a bit noncommittal.

Spoiler

So i havent posted in a while and have been going back and rereading, most of my thoughts are still jumbled but i wanted to quickly give my 2 cents on the kyeugh discussion before i go and write other things.

Frankly, i don't really see the point of directly comparing her play this game with her play last game, at least in a vacuum (i was guilty of doing this read D1, but after thinking about it i dont really like the way i was thinking about it)

if kyeugh is town, she would most likely want to switch things up, in order to avoid the sentiment of "well she was scum last game and is playing the exact same way now!" but w!kyeugh would likely think the exact same thing.

I'm not saying that we can't derive reads from her style, but i think a direct comparison to tvt would be a red herring.

Also, this was already discussed but i want to second the notion that the statistical analysis of the voting shouldnt imply anything, and frankly idk how i feel about it even being brought up in the first place (but im not going to spin that into a scumread just yet, bc i can understand the sentiment)

esp if you're someone who's played a fair number of games tbh

when writing the post i forgot that more than 2 mafia games existed in the universe. whoops.

although tbh, im not sure what would inspire w!kyeugh to support the killing of someone she had voted for, because of this exact dialogue

 

[Tangrowth]

So... I read everything super quickly, but I'm not sure how much of it I truly absorbed. It does seem like VM's case is the main Thing of Interest. I'm still not really sure how to interpret it, so perhaps someone with more VM meta can help me there, but it seems almost NAI because I could see it being a town tunnel but also something that would be easy enough to replicate as wolf, so ???

Yeah I kind of feel like I've had to read him through mindset things that are like, adjacent to the case itself.

What do you think of Skylar/kyeugh right now?

I was confused for a bit who Skylar was, but then I figured it out through context, lmao.

But seriously, I'm torn. I think some of their posts and lines of thinking have hit my gut as towny. My brain didn't like the "lynch me if you want" (paraphrasing) post. I'll have to ISO her I think... but in the morning or something, haha. What are your thoughts?

 

[Tangrowth]

Oh and imo, Rari in general has felt quick to push against suspicion this game. I don't remember off the top of my head exactly who they were defending, though.

What do you make of that specifically?

 

[Trebek]

currently townleaning skylar

going back to reread her posts rn but i think the predominant Thought in my head is that i really wouldnt understand w!skylar's motivation for killing off myuma/seshas (whichever one it was)

 

[Tangrowth]

currently townleaning skylar

going back to reread her posts rn but i think the predominant Thought in my head is that i really wouldnt understand w!skylar's motivation for killing off myuma/seshas (whichever one it was)

I'm curious, how often do you use something like night kill analysis to inform your reads?

 

[mewtini]

I thought I explained them fairly well yesterDay, is there something that confuses you wrt that?/can you point out specifically the performative parts so that I can take a more directed look?

sorry, had to vanish for a bit and i kind of don't feel like post-hunting at the moment/need to reread tbh, but i'll talk about the like, story arc of my trebekfeelings? disclaimer that i am likely confbiasing because i latched on a bit to his EoD, and i don't really want this to be taken as a trebek push

i just keep feeling like he made a show of saying he understood/agreed with what you were doing in what could have been an effort to escape suspicion. once it ended (and tbh, this might be me reacting to getting lightly sussed) he namedropped me and rari a few times for our involvement in the whole thing - even after his read had changed to say "i no longer am as suspicious of them" - at the same time as taking the chance to say he strongly TRs you for putting him through it in the first place, and kyeugh (who i felt kind of ? about at the time) for siding with you in it

a lot of this is reliant on that i still don't really understand the confusion about/suspicion surrounding the reactions to your initial vote, and that i get the optics-concerned vibe from some other parts of his posting

 

[Trebek]

currently townleaning skylar

going back to reread her posts rn but i think the predominant Thought in my head is that i really wouldnt understand w!skylar's motivation for killing off myuma/seshas (whichever one it was)

I'm curious, how often do you use something like night kill analysis to inform your reads?

this is my first game, so im still trying to work out which type of analysis works the best for me as far as making reads goes, but in a vacuum i think i feel more confident using night kill/mech analysis than thread analysis

 

[Tangrowth]

I thought I explained them fairly well yesterDay, is there something that confuses you wrt that?/can you point out specifically the performative parts so that I can take a more directed look?

sorry, had to vanish for a bit and i kind of don't feel like post-hunting at the moment/need to reread tbh, but i'll talk about the like, story arc of my trebekfeelings? disclaimer that i am likely confbiasing because i latched on a bit to his EoD, and i don't really want this to be taken as a trebek push

i just keep feeling like he made a show of saying he understood/agreed with what you were doing in what could have been an effort to escape suspicion. once it ended (and tbh, this might be me reacting to getting lightly sussed) he namedropped me and rari a few times for our involvement in the whole thing - even after his read had changed to say "i no longer am as suspicious of them" - at the same time as taking the chance to say he strongly TRs you for putting him through it in the first place, and kyeugh (who i felt kind of ? about at the time) for siding with you in it

a lot of this is reliant on that i still don't really understand the confusion about/suspicion surrounding the reactions to your initial vote, and that i get the optics-concerned vibe from some other parts of his posting

What makes you think that interpretation as opposed to one where Trebek is flip-flopping a bit and then concerned about optics because he lacks information and is concerned about his own ML respectively?

 

[Tangrowth]

currently townleaning skylar

going back to reread her posts rn but i think the predominant Thought in my head is that i really wouldnt understand w!skylar's motivation for killing off myuma/seshas (whichever one it was)

I'm curious, how often do you use something like night kill analysis to inform your reads?

this is my first game, so im still trying to work out which type of analysis works the best for me as far as making reads goes, but in a vacuum i think i feel more confident using night kill/mech analysis than thread analysis

Oh right, I forgot how new you were. I appreciate this regardless, thanks!

 

[mewtini]

What makes you think that interpretation as opposed to one where Trebek is flip-flopping a bit and then concerned about optics because he lacks information and is concerned about his own ML respectively?

literally just the EoD, because he wasn't a wagon

 

[Trebek]

currently townleaning skylar

going back to reread her posts rn but i think the predominant Thought in my head is that i really wouldnt understand w!skylar's motivation for killing off myuma/seshas (whichever one it was)

I'm curious, how often do you use something like night kill analysis to inform your reads?

this is my first game, so im still trying to work out which type of analysis works the best for me as far as making reads goes, but in a vacuum i think i feel more confident using night kill/mech analysis than thread analysis

Oh right, I forgot how new you were. I appreciate this regardless, thanks!

well, first game with a little asterisk next to it: my major experience is from Town of Salem, which is why i feel a lot better about the mechanical side of things - theres not really much time to make deep personality reads in those games

 

[Keldeo]

Skylar thoughts are I townleaned her pretty early on for like, not seeming that pushy, and a little bit of sheeping the thread and general depth of thought / engagement / whatever - I know the latter is stuff that can be faked but it was enough that I wanted to give her a day. Right now I'm kinda pending rereading her EOD because I haven't reread any of d1 yet, and that might have to wait until tomorrow.

Oh and imo, Rari in general has felt quick to push against suspicion this game. I don't remember off the top of my head exactly who they were defending, though.

What do you make of that specifically?

Mm... not much tbh, was kind of a side note I wanted to put out there after thinking a bit about VM saying that Rari was quick to defend Skylar. This is something I might revisit if I have time because it's definitely stuck out to me and there could be a pattern.

Thanks, mewtini - I feel as though Trebek's thoughts today haven't really been as conclusive as anything yesterday. I kind of think he has felt optics-focused for the entire game, so without looking back I'm not sure if I'll see what you do, except that in a vacuum mafia are less likely to care between v/v wagons and stuff.

 

[Tangrowth]

What makes you think that interpretation as opposed to one where Trebek is flip-flopping a bit and then concerned about optics because he lacks information and is concerned about his own ML respectively?

literally just the EoD, because he wasn't a wagon

I see, that makes sense, since he wasn't under any serious pressure or anything.

 

[Tangrowth]

Yeah, I'm going to have to go back and dig tomorrow, I'm probably just out of steam here. Then I'll throw down an updated / more thorough reads list, that's the plan anyway.