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Communism?

tim. said:
It's a fairly uniquely Western intellectual hang up. Eastern cultures and especially indigenous cultures do not hold the same view of "human nature"(i take a great deal of issue with the term itself but anyway). The first human societies practiced collective ownership and had an egalitarian social structure, as can still be seen in hunter-gather societies that exist today. Obviously the habits of the first human social groups will afford you a good idea of what "human nature" actually is, and it is far closer to communism than capitalism.

As far as the adage that communism "fails in practice" I would have to consider it the most impressive failure in human history. Communism and a government-run economy turned the backwater and laughing stock of the Western world, Tsarist Russia, into an astounding industrial power in a few short years - to the point of being one of the two Superpowers in the world post-WWII despite taking the most damage of any nation in the war. Its industrial growth until the Brezhnev years was unparalleled in capitalist economies. Increases in life expectancy, literacy and education were all enormous. If you want to talk about standards of living metrics, communism is a miracle. Maoist China saw the greatest increase in life expectancy in human history, as well as staggering increases in literacy. Maoist China finally modernized the nation; and although the true economic growth doesn't come until Deng Xiaoping's market-based reforms, you would have to be insane to believe that those reforms would have had a hope of working if Communism had not pulled China into the 20th century at a breakneck pace.
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I take it you're not Turbo.
 
pwnemon, for god's sake. have you even been around enough to /see/ a turboappearance?

if not then please stop making comments about him.
 
Ruby said:
I don't know why everyone assumes that humans are bastards. It doesn't correspond with my day-to-day experience.
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I think the majority of "humans are bastards" ness comes from "oh, I hate it when people take other people's Coke from the fridge, but I am just SO thirsty today, and the only reason I don't have Coke of my own is because someone stole mine, and the guy whose Cokes these are almost never drinks them anyway, and this will be the first time this month that I took someone else's soda, so surely just one can won't hurt?"
 
I thought it was because people read headlines like "MAN EATS DEAD BABIES THEN KICKS A PUPPY" and don't realise that these are exceptionally rare incidents which happen to get airtime/column space precisely because they're rare.
 
Personally it has less to do with humans as individuals and more the impact we cause as a species; we tend to not be bastards on a case-by-case basis but, you know, we sort of suck. What with the deforestation and global warming and killing off species, etc.
 
What Pentimento said. Apparently, there's a line from Men In Black (My dad said this, I've never watched it,) where a guy goes, "A person may not be stupid, but people are stupid."
 
Pentimento said:
Personally it has less to do with humans as individuals and more the impact we cause as a species; we tend to not be bastards on a case-by-case basis but, you know, we sort of suck. What with the deforestation and global warming and killing off species, etc.
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but is it really fair to call us bastards for doing this? unlimited expansion is what life is supposed to do. of course, given that we're capable of recognising the threat that we pose to the environment and have the means to reduce this impact, we should probably act more responsibly but that's more an issue of banging some international heads together.

What Pentimento said. Apparently, there's a line from Men In Black (My dad said this, I've never watched it,) where a guy goes, "A person may not be stupid, but people are stupid."
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your dad has top tier taste in films, you should really go watch MiB now. in fact, I should go rewatch it as well. :|
 
Eh, you're getting philosophical; my own philosophical views will differ from yours on this matter, there really isn't a correct view. Again, personally, what species are supposed to do doesn't matter, we've sort of moved beyond that (as you've said, the ability to recognize it). It really isn't our 'fault' anyhow - it's not a blame thing, we just sort of suck, and there's nothing we can do about it. Sure, we can attempt to change our behavior, but the pattern shows that whenever we fix one thing another thing will arise that needs changing, and the cycle will repeat. In the larger scheme of things we're just another natural disaster changing Earth, and the planet will move on when we're gone.
 
Pentimento said:
Personally it has less to do with humans as individuals and more the impact we cause as a species; we tend to not be bastards on a case-by-case basis but, you know, we sort of suck. What with the deforestation and global warming and killing off species, etc.
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yeah, this is basically just what I was saying but on a massive scale, don't you think?
 
Well, COME ON!!!!
Everyone would be lazy losers taking everything from someone that works and actually has a productive life. Then, EVERYONE would be on the streets. Wait- wasn't this supposed to help people?
 
Octsia said:
Everyone would be lazy losers taking everything from someone that works and actually has a productive life. Then, EVERYONE would be on the streets. Wait- wasn't this supposed to help people?
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... I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to get across here...? :U
 
I dunno, a few Communist governments could have had a chance at working if the CIA didn't come in and ruin everything for them and install dictatorships. Of course, this is public health wise; money wise they seemed to be fine with US/British support. (I'm considering Chile, Iran, Guatemala, almost Cuba here)
 
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