Downloading music: is it theft?

[Tarvos]

In this topic we discuss the music industry, how piracy affects sales, and whether downloading really is copyright infringement.

Personally, I still buy cd's - nothing's better than a good cd with artwork. The problem is major labels see the money from the cd's - not the artists. There's something rotten in the state of Denmark?

 

[Tsunami]

That's the problem I have with buying CDs, actually. I'm an avid BitTorrenter, and really, downloading the music gives the band that recorded it the same amount of money. That is, none at all. It all goes into the coffers of the recording company, who then use that money to get people to by blanks to make their own mixes.

...Although, I do support the Game Industry, but that's mostly because Xbox games can't be put onto blanks correctly...

 

[IcySapphire]

I believe it is not--it is a good way to get lesser or hard to find stuff heard. that said, I can understand why the music industry sees it that way--as a means to line their own pockets and not pay the artists what they deserve

 

[foreign contaminant]

i download music and i buy loads more music.

downloading mp3s is kind of like someone giving you a tape: there's a good chance the sound quality isn't great, you don't get the artwork, and then of course you're not supporting "something". i think if you really like the music, you'll try to buy it, or you'll go to that person/band's show or hawk merch or something. or in some cases, the music may be out of print, and especially in that case, nothing's wrong with downloading it.

 

[Blastoise Fortooate]

Eh, it's kinda like using someone else's art- I follow the rules that they put up. Or listen to it on Youtube or something.

 

[Effigy of the Forgotten]

I think if an artist is on a major label like Sony or whatever then you can get away with downloading it without any ethical issues, the artist probably won't get much money from the sale anyway and taking money from major label record companies is like sticking it to the man, which is always cool. This argument falls down a bit however when you get to smaller, more underground/independent labels, where bands are going to get a bigger cut of the profits and are less likely to sell as many CDs generally. Even on bigger labels like Metal Blade and Earache which are well known amongst the rock community and have a large distribution, bands can lose out on significant amounts of money from illegally downloaded albums. Even big bands such as Hate Eternal and Akercocke would struggle to live off sales of their music, hence why a lot of band members have another job to bring in the money as well. On properly underground labels such as Grindethic or Sevared then bands will see a significant portion of the money from each CD sale go to them, and the label itself needs money in order to stay alive, so will be genuinely affected if people stop buying their records and download them instead.

That said, in some ways underground bands/labels have benefited from downloading. Wherever you are in the world you can download an album no matter how obscure or far away the band is, a guy in Scotland could download and hear an album by an underground Russian black metal band for example that he would never have been exposed to otherwise. The benefit from this though will only come if said guy in Scotland then supports the Russian band by buying the album, or by buying gig tickets and merchandise.The band won't magically be helped when someone downloads something and leaves the MP3s lying around on their harddrive, you don't do anyone any favours by nicking their stuff off Rapidshare and then not doing anything else. Nothing wrong with downloading albums as a "try before you buy" type thing IMO, but it is theft if you then don't buy the album afterwards. Lol that wasn't the best organised post ever but hopefully people will get what I mean.

 

[Dannichu]

I get nearly all my music from CDs I've bought cheap second-hand. I have no idea where this falls in the argument, because it's not illegal in any way, but the artists get zero money from my purchase.

I personally don't download music (though it's more of a fear of viruses/having a rubbish computer than any moral issue), and don't really care what anyone else does.

Though if people downloading films is why I have to pay £7 to get into the cinema nowadays, I have a major problem with that, but I guess that's a whole other debate.

 

[goldenquagsire]

I don't generally download a lot of "mainstream" music (but I download a hell of a lot of OSTs and j-rock) illegally. occasionally I'll take advantage of special offers and mass-download stuff off legal sites. but mostly I just borrow music directly off my cousin's hard drive. and aside from that, I buy one or two albums every few months because it's just nice to have a physical music collection.

I imagine that the morality of illegal downloads is dubious at best, but I've just never really cared. one of the issues is, where do you draw the line? is sampling a band's music on Youtube (even if they didn't put it there) immoral? is borrowing a friend's CD and ripping it to your computer immoral?

Though if people downloading films is why I have to pay £7 to get into the cinema nowadays, I have a major problem with that, but I guess that's a whole other debate.

I always thought it was the exact opposite; people pirated movies more because ticket prices are exorbitant. I don't personally go in for pirating films because it takes far too long to download them on my computer, and the experience of watching a film on a screen just doesn't compare to seeing it in a real theatre.

 

[ultraviolet]

I tend to buy music (cds are love) but then I also lend them out to my friends, so they rip music off the cd and pass it back, and they give me their cds. Under Australian copyright law this is illegal. I used to download music years ago but I was annoyed with how so much of the music quality was horrible and you don't get cool stuff like the actual cd case.
I was under the impression that these days artists got much more money from touring than cd sales, though (that's what I've been told, anyway).

 

[glitchedgamer]

...I'm downloading illegal music as I write this >.> I just can't afford to buy my music right now. When ever I get an iTunes card or something, sure, I'll use it. Otherwise, it's back to Frostwire. Once I get a job I plan on buying it legally more often, but until then a pirate I remain.

The way I look at it, even if I wasn't getting the music for free, I still wouldn't be buying MP3's and CD's, so by getting it illegally they are "losing money" I wouldn't have given to them anyway.

 

[Tarvos]

...I'm downloading illegal music as I write this >.> I just can't afford to buy my music right now. When ever I get an iTunes card or something, sure, I'll use it. Otherwise, it's back to Frostwire. Once I get a job I plan on buying it legally more often, but until then a pirate I remain.

The way I look at it, even if I wasn't getting the music for free, I still wouldn't be buying MP3's and CD's, so by getting it illegally they are "losing money" I wouldn't have given to them anyway.

So. That still makes you a thief. It's like walking into a store and saying "I am taking this PS3, but I'm not paying for it because I wouldn't have paid for it anyway!"

 

[Ruby]

I have never seen anything wrong with theft in itself. To me it depends on what the consequences of stealing a certain thing are.

 

[Tarvos]

The consequences are labels don't make money off CDs (ergo you bankrupt a lot of people that shouldn't be getting money in the first place).

 

[Dannichu]

To be fair, we knowingly spend hundreds of dollars on clothes and shoes that the actual maker was probably paid fifty cents for. If you buy a tea from a UK Starbucks, they'll charge you something like £2.50 for it when it costs them around 8p to make.
The actual producers of a product getting paid next to nothing while the big company gets 98% of the profits is nothing new ):

 

[EvilCrazyMonkey]

I always thought concerts/touring was the main incomes of most bands. I, personally, pirate music. I would buy more CDs if I were rich or if I had a credit card to buy used (and much cheaper) ones. I'd like to have a CD collection, but my current broke-assed teenage self is at a loss for music funding.

This comic pretty much sums up my views on iTunes et al. I feel like all the music goes to either Apple or the record label, never the artist if at all.

Mouseover text: I have spent more time trying to get an audible.com audio book playing than it took to listen to the book. I have lost every other piece of DRM-locked music I have payed for.

 

[Aura Cobalt]

I've always thought downloading music illegally was unethical, even if you are planning on eventually buying the music (seriously, if you want to listen to something before you buy it, go to YouTube. Same for movies; they're not illegal to watch, but they are to download, and probably to put up on the Internet.) Yeah, artists make peanuts off their sales, but what happens to them when their lable goes bankrupt. They need lables almost as much as lables need them, for recording, publicity, marketing, etc. Lable companies are kinda like insurance: it's a huge waste of money that seems to never pay off, but it is a neccisary service. Even if the band you're downloading would easily get another deal if their current lable somehow went bankrupt, lable companies are just a part of the system, and a kind of neccisary evil.

 

[surskitty]

This comic pretty much sums up my views on iTunes et al. I feel like all the music goes to either Apple or the record label, never the artist if at all.

Mouseover text: I have spent more time trying to get an audible.com audio book playing than it took to listen to the book. I have lost every other piece of DRM-locked music I have payed for.

And iTunes no longer has DRM. What's your point? It's not a valid excuse anymore (if it ever was: tada CDs!)

Downloading music illegally is theft. You get to listen to music and the people who made it get somewhere where you could do that get paid absolutely nothing. While yes, music labels tend to take almost all of the money, they take almost all of it. The artist still gets paid. Is it a depressingly low amount? Is it disgusting how little they get? They still get more than they would if you downloaded it.

 

[Zhorken]

This comic pretty much sums up my views on iTunes et al. I feel like all the music goes to either Apple or the record label, never the artist if at all.
[xkcd #488]
Mouseover text: I have spent more time trying to get an audible.com audio book playing than it took to listen to the book. I have lost every other piece of DRM-locked music I have payed for.

Even setting aside the fact that music DRM is pretty much gone, the "demand DRM-free files" bit's more important. Piracy is a better option than buying DRM-laden music, and wow, that's messed up! But the important part there is that DRM is bad and people should help change it, not that piracy's good.

EDIT: I don't call it stealing because you're not actually taking a thing that someone has claiming it unrightfully as your own instead. It's still not a good thing to do, but it's a bad thing that isn't stealing. ... Though, to be fair, I call it "(information) piracy" instead and that's not much more accurate. Like calling murder "life piracy" (except that murder is worse etc.)

EDIT2: So yes I do admit that this is beside the point and somewhat pedantic.

 

[Valerunner]

I've never bought music CDs since I was 15.

I've read an article somewhere after OiNK or something or other was shut down, that it's better to support the band by buying merch and going to the concerts than buying the music, unless they have a massive say in distribution (i.e. small-time labels). It was suggested there that the system we have now is flawed; the artist gets nothing while record labels drown in cash.

So yeah.

 

[Harlequin]

It's theft but not theft in the same way that taking someone's car is theft.