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EVIL MUSLIMS in Europe?
- Thread starter Shiny Grimer
- Start date
Creasy
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Surely you've noticed that Christians don't keep kosher or observe the sabbath on Saturday (one of the Ten Commandments).
Okay, I'm no Christian theologian or Bible scholar, and I'm not sure what this New Covenant is supposed to be saying. Didn't Jesus himself say that he did not come to revoke Mosaic law? Isn't God Jesus? And Jesus God? And ... see, Christianity is too intricate and muddled for it to make any sense to me. Could you explain it to me instead of just posting a wikipedia link (the best way of debating)?
ON TOPIC: I wanted to kick VPLJ for saying that Europe is more socially advanced, and then I realized it's true. God, I hate living in America.
ON TOPIC: I wanted to kick VPLJ for saying that Europe is more socially advanced, and then I realized it's true. God, I hate living in America.
Creasy
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It's not a reinterpretation. Christians intentionally celebrate the sabbath on the first day, despite God's commandment that the Jews do so on the seventh.
Jesus fulfilled the Law of the OT. He and Paul explicitly contradict it throughout the New Testament.
e.g.: "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil." (Matthew 5:38-39)
And Paul: "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4)
"He brought an end to the commandments and demands found in Moses' Teachings so that he could take Jewish and non-Jewish people and create one new humanity in himself." (Ephesians 2:15)
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Creasy
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Gentile Christians aren't biblically obligated to celebrate any sabbath. It's just tradition.
According to Paul, Jews and Jewish converts to Christianity must still observe the seventh-day sabbath and Mosaic Law in general.
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Zhorken
groove out!
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- they or she
It doesn't really make a difference what a religion's texts are supposed to say — only what people do. We can interact with people, but we can't deal directly with religions. A religion isn't an actual entity dictating people's actions. People learn religion from others; they decide what they'll practice, consciously or by going with what they grew up around or however. Scripture, whatever the intent, doesn't act as a religion's definition or a strict set of rules. You can argue about how a religion is "supposed" to go all you like, but even if you have ground to stand on (I don't know or care), standardizing one won't work. A religion is, in effect, whatever people call it. Any number of variations will emerge.
I guess what I'm trying to say is: stop thinking in terms of religions. Think in terms of people; it's people you're dealing with.
I guess what I'm trying to say is: stop thinking in terms of religions. Think in terms of people; it's people you're dealing with.
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Creasy
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That's reasonable from an atheistic perspective, but my point stands. Most Christians reject Mosaic Law, and virtually all would agree that genocide is wrong. Either way, the atrocities of the OT are no reason to criticize modern Christianity.
Teh Ebil Snorlax
izombie, uzombie, weallzombie
What does this have to with EVIL MUSLIMS IN EUROPE?
Here in Ireland, we have a funny situation. A minority (but a significant minority) of both young (as in my generation) and old (as in my grandparent's generation) are fairly racist. You know, the usual "fucking terrorists" and "if you can't speak the language get out of the country".
While it's funny enough to note that the IRA helped to train Middle Eastern terrorists, it's the second one that really gets me going. Muslims view it as offensive to live in a country with out learning its language. So many of them are sending their children to Gaelscoileanna and Gaelcoláísteanna, schools where everything is taught through Irish. So the Muslim immigrants are actually speaking the language at an astronomically higher level of fluency than the racist pricks telling them to leave the country.
This is because such people are generally too stupid to remember that English is only one of Ireland's three second languages (along with French and German) and that Irish is the first.
Here in Ireland, we have a funny situation. A minority (but a significant minority) of both young (as in my generation) and old (as in my grandparent's generation) are fairly racist. You know, the usual "fucking terrorists" and "if you can't speak the language get out of the country".
While it's funny enough to note that the IRA helped to train Middle Eastern terrorists, it's the second one that really gets me going. Muslims view it as offensive to live in a country with out learning its language. So many of them are sending their children to Gaelscoileanna and Gaelcoláísteanna, schools where everything is taught through Irish. So the Muslim immigrants are actually speaking the language at an astronomically higher level of fluency than the racist pricks telling them to leave the country.
This is because such people are generally too stupid to remember that English is only one of Ireland's three second languages (along with French and German) and that Irish is the first.
Shiny Grimer
Active member
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This is incredibly awesome.
Also, guys, please stop white-knighting Christianity/ganging up on the only Christian defender. Not every thread involving religion has to be a Christianity vs. Atheists thread.
ON TOPIC: There are a bunch of kids at my school that wear the hijab. I haven't seen or heard anyone make a big deal of it yet (despite all the people who write "God will tear this homosexual school down!" on the bathroom walls), which I figure is good news. Hurray for a step towards tolerance!
EDIT: Ok, who is the fool that added 'praise allah' as a tag?
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Vladimir Putin's LJ
your blood flows through my veins
Harlequin
Active member
I'm the first to admit that I really don't like Islam. But that's okay. I really don't like Christianity or Judaism, either. I have no objection to immigration at all (although it shouldn't be indiscriminate, and I do think that English-speaking applicants should be put on a higher priority than others but I digress).
The fear of a "Muslim Britain" is totally irrational. We're never going to have Sharia law running parallel to our own courts. I think a big part of the problem is integration into the community.
Anti-Muslim sentiments are high in poor areas. That makes sense - poor areas tend to have bad levels of academic success and tend not to be the most tolerant places. I live in one of those places. The biggest obstacle to fixing the problem is education.
What's Other is often thought of as Bad and that's something that needs to be changed. I don't know how to go about that. With the general election coming up there's been a lot of political chat going on (I even got into a debate at a urinal in a club the other week...) and most young people in my area are preparing to vote BNP.
A rise in extreme political views always follows economic crisis, so maybe that's partially the case - maybe not.
Er. For some reason this post got long. IDK why. Um.
In direct answer to the question: anti-Muslim sentiments are something that are entrenched in sections of the country but aren't held by the majority of people across the nation.
The fear of a "Muslim Britain" is totally irrational. We're never going to have Sharia law running parallel to our own courts. I think a big part of the problem is integration into the community.
Anti-Muslim sentiments are high in poor areas. That makes sense - poor areas tend to have bad levels of academic success and tend not to be the most tolerant places. I live in one of those places. The biggest obstacle to fixing the problem is education.
What's Other is often thought of as Bad and that's something that needs to be changed. I don't know how to go about that. With the general election coming up there's been a lot of political chat going on (I even got into a debate at a urinal in a club the other week...) and most young people in my area are preparing to vote BNP.
A rise in extreme political views always follows economic crisis, so maybe that's partially the case - maybe not.
Er. For some reason this post got long. IDK why. Um.
In direct answer to the question: anti-Muslim sentiments are something that are entrenched in sections of the country but aren't held by the majority of people across the nation.
Harlequin
Active member
I thought he did ban all religious symbols. Les signes religieux ostentatoires, right? A big crucifix, a yarmulke etc fit that description. Small things that can be worn under the clothes are exempt, of course.
It's not really his fault that Islam doesn't really have that, is it?
(I'm all for banning veils and such things, though, so.)
Shiny Grimer
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The question is, are the people enforcing it going to be selective? It wouldn't be odd, I think, for someone to twist the law so that they happen to 'not notice' if a Jew or Christian is being ostentatious while punished a Muslim.
Hands of Fatima.
I get this feeling for burqa and niqab and stuff, but what about hijab? I mean, headscarves can be worn in a non-religious way, and hijab isn't threatening or dangerous (as evidenced by the numerous Muslims in my school that co-exist peacefully with the non-muslims).
Eight of Germany's 16 states contain restrictions on wearing the hijab.
In the Netherlands, a February 2007 opinion poll indicated that 66 percent support a ban (on burqa) and 32 percent oppose it.
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Shiny Grimer
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When every thread ends up being like that, it gets a little boring. We may as well make some sort of thread where people go to nitpick about Christianity/Atheism/Theism and everyone can get their kicks there.
Shiny Grimer
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Had to bump the topic because of this.
56% of the Swiss voted to ban minaret construction. Some of the groups supporting the ban say that it would "encourange Sharia law".
what
Of course, considering US opinion of Muslims (and that one Jewish man in the comments who was ok with the ban because Muslims are annoying or whatever), I can't say I'm too proud of the US, either.
56% of the Swiss voted to ban minaret construction. Some of the groups supporting the ban say that it would "encourange Sharia law".
what
Of course, considering US opinion of Muslims (and that one Jewish man in the comments who was ok with the ban because Muslims are annoying or whatever), I can't say I'm too proud of the US, either.