Forum Revival TV Tropes Mafia Revival - D7

[Negrek]

After which point I'm not entirely sure why he wouldn't have simply claimed nanobots doctor rather than white mage, since I think we probably would have assumed he'd stayed Town-aligned, but eh.

 

[Stryke]

I guess this works? I don't know. I wanna hear what @Vipera Magnifica and @Stryke have to say about VM apparently having targeted kyeugh with Nanomachines last night?

It's not you, it's me, not vibing at all. @mewtini do you think I should try to swap with someone else besides rari to confirm their role?

At work rn so thoughts will be brief but I have never targeted kyeugh, and I have no clue where those nanobots came from; as best as I know, I'm the only nanobot doctor (though admittedly I know as much as you guys + what my role PM tells, which isn't much to help figure this out). I guess it's possible there's a 2nd nanobot healer out there, in the vein of how kokorico morphed into a 2nd White Mage out of nowhere, but... FOUR active healers?? Seems a bit much, even for a game like this

 

[Negrek]

Haha I mean. Maybe Eifie was a dayvig and that explains the lack of her kill? :/

The last TVT Mafia did indeed have a dayvig that I was hoping would make a reappearance, since I think the F-bomb killer idea is hilarious. However, I think if Butterfree were going to run another dayvig this game she would have had to change the trigger phrase, or else people would figure out what was up pretty quickly.

 

[Stryke]

At work rn so thoughts will be brief but I have never targeted kyeugh, and I have no clue where those nanobots came from; as best as I know, I'm the only nanobot doctor (though admittedly I know as much as you guys + what my role PM tells, which isn't much to help figure this out). I guess it's possible there's a 2nd nanobot healer out there, in the vein of how kokorico morphed into a 2nd White Mage out of nowhere, but... FOUR active healers?? Seems a bit much, even for a game like this

Unless having that many is to justify having a healer clash mechanic... This is so frickin confusing

 

[mewtini]

@mewtini do you think I should try to swap with someone else besides rari to confirm their role?

i haven't really been understanding the bodyswap thing very well; do you know yet how alignment works with the power? what happens if you swap with a wolf?

After which point I'm not entirely sure why he wouldn't have simply claimed nanobots doctor rather than white mage, since I think we probably would have assumed he'd stayed Town-aligned, but eh.

this is also what's confusing me. part of why i believed VM was that he expressly claimed white mage, and not nanobots dr, because it seemed like such a small detail that a wolfclaimer wouldn't have even bothered to make (it didn't make him any less trustworthy, certainly, assuming you were onboard with him misreading his PM. i know that i was)

At work rn so thoughts will be brief but I have never targeted kyeugh, and I have no clue where those nanobots came from

god. wtf

 

[mewtini]

Quick thought before I'm properly caught up: didn't VM reread his role PM as saying he got his new power at the start of the following night? So it's possible he would have gotten no result the first night, freaked out and made his daypost, reread his PM and gone "oops," and then actually inherited Nanobots + a 3p wincon only starting N1?

are you proposing that he would've avoided saying so because he was afraid of having to backtrack a second time? i can kind of vibe with that, honestly. it's just hard for me to read him when i've just been writing him off as "100% benevolent, but inactive"

 

[Negrek]

...man, it seems like there has to be at least one mafia member fucking with us in the midst of all this healing confusion, but on the other hand claiming anything around this mess feels like a really ballsy play.

 

[Negrek]

are you proposing that he would've avoided saying so because he was afraid of having to backtrack a second time? i can kind of vibe with that, honestly. it's just hard for me to read him when i've just been writing him off as "100% benevolent, but inactive"

Hmm, well, to me it wouldn't have been a backtrack at all if he'd claimed nanobots doc starting Day 2? That's what I was expecting to happen; the white mage claim threw me entirely for a loop. Thus the whole "but why's he white mage if Jack flipped innocent????" The only way VM should have inherited White Mage is if Jack's "not mafia" flip was in some way wrong/didn't quite qualify for VM's powers as recounted. Like, the white mage claim seems more risky than nanobots doc.

 

[mewtini]

mawile your reacts are making me so tense smfh

...man, it seems like there has to be at least one mafia member fucking with us in the midst of all this healing confusion, but on the other hand claiming anything around this mess feels like a really ballsy play.

yeah. i kind of townread ... everyone who's involved right now? but what you said here is also what gave me pause when i read rari's paranoia-take on stryke, because it seems like it was the easiest fakeclaim (and the hardest to disprove, for now) among everyone else's claiming.

Hmm, well, to me it wouldn't have been a backtrack at all if he'd claimed nanobots doc starting Day 2? That's what I was expecting to happen; the white mage claim threw me entirely for a loop. Thus the whole "but why's he white mage if Jack flipped innocent????" The only way VM should have inherited White Mage is if Jack's "not mafia" flip was in some way wrong/didn't quite qualify for VM's powers as recounted. Like, the white mage claim seems more risky than nanobots doc.

oh! yeah, agree. (i think i misread your post initially, whoops.)

if VM is lying and he actually inherited jack's role, what would that do? can anyone think of like. any motivation for that?

 

[Panini]

I mean,, I'm tempted to think there must be one amongst Stryke/VM in light of the new development? Otherwise this doesn't make sense? They're claiming functionally the same role power without being the same role: Even if VM really is universal backup and JackPK's role was nanobot doctor, the original trope he would be backing up at that point is Deadly Doctor, whereas I'm pretty sure Stryke claimed the trope he had was The Medic?

 

[Negrek]

if VM is lying and he actually inherited jack's role, what would that do? can anyone think of like. any motivation for that?

Nothing not predicated on an alignment shift after the start of the game, unfortunately. Like obviously if he started out as mafia everything becomes easy to explain EXCEPT his initial posts, which really would be some masterful planning/acting and a super bold move on the part of the mafia if it were fake. Only other options I'm seeing:

a) Kyeugh's lying
b) some very paranoid blathering about ways the mafia *could* potentially interfere with night information: maybe the mafia is able to do something where they replace some portion of the info received in a system message. Maybe the mafia is able to reverse heal polarity for the night (e.g. change white magic to nanobots or vice versa). Maybe they could doctor the information given to VM so he thinks he received the white mage power but actually got nanobots. The only reason I'm willing to entertain this is the whole "pulling strings" thing, which does suggest some kind of manipulative power. But it's all getting a bit out there and not really profitable to think about, I don't imagine.

....mmm, this is weird, but it also feels a bit like a distraction to me? Like, I may as well go ahead and vote Mawile since my inclination to do that hasn't changed this entire day. I feel like at this point, if RNP's lying, kyeugh is also lying and they're mafia together. There are a number of potential investigative targets in the next night for anyone with an inforole, and it may just be that we need to wait and see how things play. I don't think we're really at a point where we can solve the game with the powers we have yet, either. I'm also curious if we're sure we know what happens if a body swapper hits a mafia target? That power is one we might be able to plan what to do with tonight, but other than that I think it's probably best to let people do what they're gonna do wrt selecting targets tonight.

 

[Panini]

Unless you can have the same trope power in two different trope roles but like?!?!?!?

 

[Negrek]

I mean,, I'm tempted to think there must be one amongst Stryke/VM in light of the new development? Otherwise this doesn't make sense? They're claiming functionally the same role power without being the same role: Even if VM really is universal backup and JackPK's role was nanobot doctor, the original trope he would be backing up at that point is Deadly Doctor, whereas I'm pretty sure Stryke claimed the trope he had was The Medic?

I think the existence of both a role and a power trope implies that it's possible for two different roles to have the same power, so nanobots being given to both "deadly doctor" and "the medic" doesn't actually wig me out, tbh.

But I was suspicious of Stryke before, and that hasn't changed in light of all this, lol.

 

[Keldeo]

Unless you can have the same trope power in two different trope roles but like?!?!?!?

(have only skimmed everything else on this page) I think this is probably possible, given the Mysterious Informants who all seem to have Expospeak, and kokorico's claim of having the same trope power as me

 

[Mawile]

Oh, and on the note of Mawile, probably goes without saying, buuuut I don't see much reason to give credence to anything he says

That's a shame. Have a post to consider. You can choose to take it at face value, or assume I'm lying, but things do line up pretty well.

I'm not entirely sure if Mawile is group mafia based on some of the way he's been acting

which would be consistent with some of mawile's behavior (i could believe that he's not group mafia, i just doubted the alien theory) which kind of implied that he wasn't necessarily equally informed with regards to the rest of the mafia

Ding ding ding! You are correct :) I can't talk to any of the other members of the mafia, and in fact, I don't even know who they are! I don't even know if they know that I exist, to be honest, with the sheer number of people trying to lynch me today and yesterday :( Talk about being backstabbed again, but at least it's unintentional this time (I hope).

This is also why I have to post this! It's important for my fellow mafias to know what was up, especially since I can't talk to any of them :(

another weird strings-pulling thing

We'll get into that in a second. Please hold.

We also don't technically know that those results weren't tampered with either.

This is also assuming that whoever would be able to tamper with results would have the ability to choose whose results to tamper each night.

It's a shame nobody picked up on some of my hints :(

I have info that says that mafia are pulling strings behind the curtain

from which I inferred that Mafia doctoring the flavor is a possibility

Ding ding ding! :)

Somewhat related, but I'm curious why @Seshas interpreted "mafia pulling strings behind the scenes" to mean that the mafia were altering daytext somehow. Is there more to it than "pulling strings behind the scenes?" The first thing I think of on hearing that, personally, is that there might be some kind of puppetmaster power on the mafia side, whatever that might mean...

If by "puppetmaster" you mean "someone who has the ability to tamper with any information I please" then yes, there is a puppetmaster! In fact, this is me, but with a couple tweaks:

one of those roles that can edit results returned by other inforoles

So here's the deal. I have absolutely messed with some of the information that people have been receiving. Each night, I can choose one person, and one of the following will occur:

- If that person dies, then one piece of information recieved is tampered with. Since I have a slight amount of control over the meta itself, this can (apparently) extend to things like the flavor text about their death, the alignment they flip as, or even one of the abilities that get meta information about the person upon their death. (This is presumably why I can't talk to any of the mafia; it would be so easy to just line up my tampering with their kill every night.) Note that only one of these is randomly selected to be tampered with -- I can't tamper with all of these bits of information at once, and I can't choose which one to tamper with.

- If that person does not die, but has a role that results in them receiving information at any point, then I tamper with the information they receive that night.

- If that person does not fulfill either of the above criteria, then nothing happens, and I become sad. Not in the game, but in real life.

(As an aside, I did target Herbe on n0 and apparently my night action has precedence over Stryke's doctoring, for some reason. So I still don't know what's up with Jack. Also, I'm not going to tell you who I've targeted on the other nights, because it would make things way too obvious. I trust that you can figure out some contradictions in information, and determine whether or not I'm involved.)

I also can't target the same person more than once, probably as a way to balance my existence with cops and whatnot. But since we started out with 25 people, I had a lot of options.

I have "meta knowledge," so the answer just comes to me. In practice what happens is that after a player dies, Dragonfree PMs me their name and role. I assume there's no way to tamper with at least the lynch results, because they come immediately after the lynch happens, so there wouldn't be any time for someone else to get a night action in there to mess with things.

You're right that I can't tamper with lynch results (flavor text, alignment flips or your trope results) -- those are all legitimate. Any other information, though, is pretty much fair game!

If you ask me questions, I will either answer with a response, an actual response, or a happy face. :)

 

[Keldeo]

extremely :woweek:

i haven't really been understanding the bodyswap thing very well; do you know yet how alignment works with the power? what happens if you swap with a wolf?

The swap apparently includes alignment and win condition along with the role power. Butterfree couldn't answer me about the ramifications of swapping with a wolf (such as wolfchat access and knowing wolf partners)

 

[Negrek]

oh well

bye mawile

 

[Mawile]

Bye bye! :)

 

[Keldeo]

bye mawile

Maw be with ye!

 

[Negrek]

The swap apparently includes alignment and win condition along with the role power. Butterfree couldn't answer me about the ramifications of swapping with a wolf (such as wolfchat access and knowing wolf partners)

Oh, so that's awks. So if someone did swap into a mafia alignment, they would become mafia-aligned and therefore incentivized to obscure what had actually happened? But then does the former mafia suddenly become Town and incentivize to rat out everyone else in that chat? That would certainly be a thing.