They are a thing within certain online communities. I have never seen Spivak pronouns used outside of TCoD. I have seen sie/xir been used. None Ive seen used in outside of internet forums.
It isn't a big thing irl, no! I don't expect a single person irl to refer to me with my preferred pronouns. And of course, there is so little point in being like "I know you won't have heard of these before, but it's what I like to be referred to as" because I can imagine the resulting stares, scorn or arguments to be preeeetty upsetting. A forum like this, though, gives me the chance to help explain.
As for outside of TCoD... really?? They're sort of... a common thing online, though I guess I can understand if you don't really use the internet much? I genuinely hadn't realised that alternative pronouns were this much of a new thing for lots of people here before this thread. o_o
I would argue that <they> is no longer restricted to gender being unknown but rather simply stating that you will not be stating that persons gender.
It's not restricted at all! Most of the time, certainly irl, I would use 'they'! But 'they' carries the weight of usually used for 'unknown', which is something that can be entirely avoided with sensible neologisms.
The only problem I have is that it can be confusing. I go on this forum very often and I read peoples postbits and I still cannot remember the preferred pronouns of people!
Lots of people find it difficult and confusing! But most people,
certainly myself, am overwhelmingly pleased whenever anyone makes even the tiniest effort. Making mistakes, forgetting - it's not your fault, and to be honest there are very few who genuinely mind when someone messes up. It's just a thing people would very much
like you to keep up with.
In real life, however, it can be more awkward when you want to respectfully refer to someone and you forget their pronoun and they are not present or there are multiple people with alternate pronouns.
Yep! I don't know anyone irl (who I didn't know first via the internet) who uses alternative pronouns, and maybe it would be difficult to deal with if the time ever came. Because of what you're saying, I've never tried to seriously explain it to anyone but a few irl friends, who were mostly pretty weird about it, so.
And again, if you forget someone's pronouns, just sort of... ask! Or apologise! It doesn't need to be a big thing.
I think a thing worth mentioning is that alternative pronouns are so difficult to remember and keep track of because you've never really seen or used them before. It's the same with anything, any new word, any new piece of information. So why not pick a set and try really hard to remember it and learn it? Before I realised I was much more comfortable with not using she/her for myself, that's what I tried to do, and it took a reeeally long time to get to a place where I didn't make mistakes all the time, and I still do, even with some close friends! But that's okay! If you don't try at all and bluntly refuse, sure, it's no real surprise if they're a little affronted or sad. But even the smallest effort isn't
that far out of your way, right?
I think everyone would be much more comfortable if the pronouns were standardized. I much prefer the Spivak pronouns to <Sie/Xir>, which simply do not look English to me and are somewhat awkward to pronounce. Putting people into categories will not solve every problem, but it will make referring to people much easier. <Okay, people who identify as X, we are gonna use this pronoun now. And y people, let us all agree to use that pronoun>. The bouncing around of pronouns can definitely become confusing, even if you are trying to respect peoples wishes.
Well... it's not really that simple! Taking this solution
is actually a thing within the genderqueer communities, by the way - I've said already that sie/hir and ey(e)/eir/em have pretty much been decided on as being 'the default gender-neutral' pronoun. So... I don't really see what the problem is now that I've explained that? Just... use those!
As for making everyone use a certain pronoun for themselves, just because they 'identify as X' (what does this mean? breaking the gender binary leads to very few sharing a common identity. how would you even decide?), that doesn't really feel like it'd be solving anything! Also, "it's too difficult for those people!" would probably lead to a "well oh fucking no" reaction because, well, binary people going out of their way to help is already something that isn't really expected or ever encountered. Which is why sie/hir and Spivak help bridge that gap.
