Gender

[opaltiger]

Pretty much, yeah.
I don't understand why you're all opposed to that?

Because it's a horrible (and downright wrong) point of view that harms lots of people?

 

[Jolty]

Pretty much, yeah.
I don't understand why you're all opposed to that?

I rarely eat lunch, I just eat one meal at the end of the day. This has been the way since I was about 12. I was fat until I was 17. I still have a huge gut now.

Tell me I'm an over-eater.

 

[Saith]

Look, pudgy, chubby, healthy roundness - that's not fat. That could be genetics, and lucky genetics too.

Flab, though, can only really come from... Well... Over-eating and lack of exercise.

Sure your metabolism can be effected by your genes, but the thing about your metabolism is that by doing a lot of exercise makes it increase.
And that makes you lose weight.
Not everybody can be an Arnold or a Jodie Marsh, but everybody is capable of retaining a healthy balance.

Again, let me repeat, having a bit of a pooch or round hips or whatever the hell is not what I consider fat. But if your belly jiggles when you jump, well, you can fix it through a good exercise routine.


Jolty: How much do you exercise? Do you run? If you do then... Well stop running, and instead build up your muscle-mass. Like, seriously. Lift weights, use the rowing machine even, free weights, mechanical weights, it doesn't matter. But if you get your muscle mass up, your metabolism will increase and that'll make you burn calories that much faster.
There's a real reason athletes have to eat a lot - and that's because their body requires it. On the flipside, fatties don't have to eat very much at all, because their metabolisms tend to be so low.
Basically, dieting isn't the way to go when it comes to losing weight.

 

[Hiikaru]

dude no that's the point, we WANT people to think of us as cisgender. ?

I'm kind of confused as to what you mean by this! "Cisgender" is like "comfortable with you assigned sex/gender", right? So if they think of you as cisgender, isn't that kind of making that word meaningless?

Or are you saying something like that you want people to understand that those people can be or can come to be okay with how they are, too?

[lots of things]

How is whether or not obesity can be from genetics even a tiny bit something you can choose to believe or not? It doesn't require faith, it only requires seeing something on it and going "oh, huh, scientists have discovered that obesity can be because genetics, apparently there's actually an 'obesity gene', among other things, okay." Do you think scientists are lying about it? If you think scientists can just lie whenever they want, how come you trust anything from scientists ever? (and if you think they just lie about everything, what do you do to decide if it's a lie or not??)

Anyway, it seems like you're maybe not defining "fatness" the same way as everyone else? What you seem to be saying is "sure, people can be big from genetics, but extra weight (weight that is not from their genetics) is not genetic," which would make more sense.

Regardless, though, why is it something you consider to be immoral? Surely being big can't be immoral, because that isn't something that hurts anyone at all except maybe the big person, if the being big causes them health problems. And surely eating a lot can't be immoral, because you just talked about how athletes have to eat a lot, and you don't seem to have a problem with that. Is it maybe that you think big people have no self-control, and that lacking self-control is immoral? Because what about people who are addicted to something? For instance food addiction is a thing, and people have eating disorders where they cannot just use self-control to stop eating. And you can't just take food away, because they kind of need it, so that's tough for them to try and cure! Too, there are plenty of other things that people could maybe do with more self-control that you probably don't consider immoral. For instance, maybe people could exercise better self-control to not cry. Is crying immoral because of that? Or people could use self-control and learn how to have a steady hand, maybe. Is not having a steady hand immoral? Hopefully you can see where saying a lack of self-control is necessarily bad gets kind of silly.

Also, I was wondering, since "hit the gym" seems to be your solution to every problem, what if someone can't go to the gym? Like what if they're afraid to go to a gym because people will just think about how awful and horrible and immoral they are for happening to be bigger than the others, or what if they have a legitimately busy schedule and can't make time? Or what if going to the gym is too expensive for them to deal with? Is there just no solution in those cases?

 

[Phantom]

A lot of it is related to outside factors, money issues being a big one. Why should they buy some organic healthy, I don't know, juice for five bucks when they can buy a something not exceptionally healthy for a little more than a dollar.

Also Saith, 'hitting the gym' isn't a legit answer for weight. There are people who can't exercise because of health issues. In order to exercise they need specialized equipment. I know people who have heart issues who can't run, or people who have past injuries that prevent them from going to a standard gym.

You're condescending attitude is rude. Do you think overweight people asked to be? Get off your high horse. You're not the greatest person who ever lived and ever will be simply because you think you are. I'm sorry but reading through these things I've learned you are so self centered it's sad. And if I get infracted for this as flaming it's well earned; because some things just need to be said. Just because something applies to you you think it goes for everyone else too, that's not the case. That will come to bite you in the ass some day.

You don't seem to know anything about diet or losing weight. The best way to lose weight is with both diet and exercise together. Any routine will fail if you are not following either of those. Go pick up a book, or google something before you look like an idiot.

 

[Saith]

I'm kind of confused as to what you mean by this! "Cisgender" is like "comfortable with you assigned sex/gender", right? So if they think of you as cisgender, isn't that kind of making that word meaningless?

No. Trans* people don't like to be thought of as trans. That's where the term 'passing' (or 'blending', though that has racist overtones) comes from. That is, a trans chick doesn't want to be thought of as a dude or as a trans chick. She wants people to think of her as a chick.
We want to be thought of as Cis because, well, nobody wants to be trans. We want to be Cis - not almost-Cis.

How is whether or not obesity can be from genetics even a tiny bit something you can choose to believe or not? It doesn't require faith, it only requires seeing something on it and going "oh, huh, scientists have discovered that obesity can be because genetics, apparently there's actually an 'obesity gene', among other things, okay." Do you think scientists are lying about it? If you think scientists can just lie whenever they want, how come you trust anything from scientists ever? (and if you think they just lie about everything, what do you do to decide if it's a lie or not??)

Because the position is disputed? Because nobody's ever just ballooned out? Because the entire concept is dumb?
I accept genetics determining your metabolism to a point. If you're born with a low metabolism, you will get fatter easier than someone with a high metabolism.
The thing is, though, that so many things effect your metabolism. How much exercise you do, how much muscle mass you have, the amount of food you eat. When compared to these, your genetic metabolism doesn't make all that big a difference.

Anyway, it seems like you're maybe not defining "fatness" the same way as everyone else? What you seem to be saying is "sure, people can be big from genetics, but extra weight (weight that is not from their genetics) is not genetic," which would make more sense.

I figured that's what people were saying? Sure, your genetics determine fringe things, but well... It nature versus nurture, and I think that your weight is directly related to how you act.

No anatomy class, no physical education class, no class taught by trained professionals that is to do with the theory of fitness, health and the body ever has 'welp, you're born like it' as one of its tenets.

Regardless, though, why is it something you consider to be immoral?

Being fat is immoral because, at least in Britain, your acts hurt everybody. So much money goes towards helping the obese, so much money goes towards helping those with obesity-related illnesses. And it should. Of course it should. That's what the NHS is there for. The thing is though, acting as though being fat is okay means that more people become fat. Because hey, why the hell not? This means that more people get ill, more people get treatment off the NHS, more people have to pay, more people figure that if they get ill, it'll be easy to get help and the cycle continues.
But it's not only that.
A society that accepts fat people, a society that acts as though obesity is all fine and dandy, inevitably sets an example to children - 'hey kids! eat all you like! do it yaaaay!' and this leads from a community of fat children to a community of fat adults. This destroys the very foundations of civilization because, in the end, those who are obese can't function as well as fit people.
I mean sure, a fatass scholar doesn't need to be fit to do his job, so that's okay.
But then you realise that obesity is inversely proportional to your education - that is the lower classes are fatter than the more educated middle classes. This means that you have an entire generation of fatties who can't perform their jobs - they couldn't go to uni, so they didn't have the chance to get well-paying, less active jobs, and so they're stuck unemployed for the rest of their lives. After all, obesity is a disability for a reason.
So now we have all these people who live off benefits, who are more susceptible to diseases and illnesses, cannot work, and just basically leach off of society.
Along with this, they're setting a terrible example to children.
I think that's pretty fucking immoral.

Also, I was wondering, since "hit the gym" seems to be your solution to every problem, what if someone can't go to the gym? Like what if they're afraid to go to a gym because people will just think about how awful and horrible and immoral they are for happening to be bigger than the others, or what if they have a legitimately busy schedule and can't make time? Or what if going to the gym is too expensive for them to deal with? Is there just no solution in those cases?

It's not my answer to any problem. Just the ones where the answer includes hitting the gym. Getting friends? Look nice. Get some exercise.
Fat? Hit the gym. Get some exercise.
See? They both have to do with your appearance, confidence and health.

But okay then. If you genuinely cannot afford to go to the gym (and seriously? not even one of those tiny, mom and pop gyms that reside in towns? The two pound an hour, once a week type gyms?), then jog for an hour. Hell, if nothing else, walk to school.
Don't have the time? Well anybody reading this obviously does have the time. You're just spending it online.
If you're too scared?
...
Well hitting the gym is the answer to that. If you're too fat, hit the gym. You'll get less fat. If you're too nervous? Hit the gym. Everybody's nice, you'll get fitter. BAM! Confidence skyrockets.

I still don't understand why everybody's opposed to self-improvement?
It sounds to me, and I don't want to be rude, but that you're all just trying to justify the fact that you're too lazy to get out and about.
I mean god damn, I started doing weights, jogging etc when I was 12. I was fat. Not that fat, but I had some flab rolls at my belly, and had fugly ass manboobs. So I started training, and when I was 14, I started going to a proper gym. I've never looked back.

 

[Saith]

You're condescending attitude is rude. Do you think overweight people asked to be? Get off your high horse. You're not the greatest person who ever lived and ever will be simply because you think you are. I'm sorry but reading through these things I've learned you are so self centered it's sad. And if I get infracted for this as flaming it's well earned; because some things just need to be said. Just because something applies to you you think it goes for everyone else too, that's not the case. That will come to bite you in the ass some day.

You don't seem to know anything about diet or losing weight. The best way to lose weight is with both diet and exercise together. Any routine will fail if you are not following either of those. Go pick up a book, or google something before you look like an idiot.

Well I don't think you should get infracted - freedom of speech and all that jazz - but I mean... I'm pretty sure everything I've said has been accurate. I wouldn't say it if I didn't.
And also, I don't see how I'm being self-centered? I'm being condescending, yes, but that's... Kind of how you have to be when you're trying to save people from themselves. I hate that term, but it's what I'm doing and so I might as well say it.
Weightloss is a combination of exercise, metabolism and diet.
Although, I wouldn't ever really consider it weightloss. You build up your musclemass through exercise, you eat healthy and you run. It's simple ass.
It's just so much easier to do at a gym, if only because... Well... They're establishments specifically for getting fit. They have information on healthy eating, they have all the resources to assist you, hell, most of them even have qualified personal trainers who'll point you in the right direction for free.

 

[octobr]

No. Trans* people don't like to be thought of as trans. That's where the term 'passing' (or 'blending', though that has racist overtones) comes from. That is, a trans chick doesn't want to be thought of as a dude or as a trans chick. She wants people to think of her as a chick.
We want to be thought of as Cis because, well, nobody wants to be trans. We want to be Cis - not almost-Cis.

Stop pretending to be the Trans* Representative, okay? Because your opinions are wildly different from mine.

Being trans is part of my identity now. I know I am trans, and honestly, after lots of thought and work, I think that's just part of who I am. Sure, I want people to see me as male first and foremost, but I'm not the type of guy who will probably ever go stealth (though I definitely consider that to be a personal choice and it's fine if you do). I am male, and I am trans. I can be both and I can be confident in being both. And I am, as luck would have it.

We can't be cis, that's the meaning of being trans. We can be equal to cisgender people? That's what you're trying to get at, right, that we don't want to be some different level, but equal and oh welp they weren't born the sex they shoulda been nbd, right?

Because the position is disputed? Because nobody's ever just ballooned out? Because the entire concept is dumb?
I accept genetics determining your metabolism to a point. If you're born with a low metabolism, you will get fatter easier than someone with a high metabolism.
The thing is, though, that so many things effect your metabolism. How much exercise you do, how much muscle mass you have, the amount of food you eat. When compared to these, your genetic metabolism doesn't make all that big a difference.

...

It's not my answer to any problem. Just the ones where the answer includes hitting the gym. Getting friends? Look nice. Get some exercise.
Fat? Hit the gym. Get some exercise.
See? They both have to do with your appearance, confidence and health.

But okay then. If you genuinely cannot afford to go to the gym (and seriously? not even one of those tiny, mom and pop gyms that reside in towns? The two pound an hour, once a week type gyms?), then jog for an hour. Hell, if nothing else, walk to school.
Don't have the time? Well anybody reading this obviously does have the time. You're just spending it online.
If you're too scared?
...
Well hitting the gym is the answer to that. If you're too fat, hit the gym. You'll get less fat. If you're too nervous? Hit the gym. Everybody's nice, you'll get fitter. BAM! Confidence skyrockets.

I still don't understand why everybody's opposed to self-improvement?
It sounds to me, and I don't want to be rude, but that you're all just trying to justify the fact that you're too lazy to get out and about.
I mean god damn, I started doing weights, jogging etc when I was 12. I was fat. Not that fat, but I had some flab rolls at my belly, and had fugly ass manboobs. So I started training, and when I was 14, I started going to a proper gym. I've never looked back.

I skipped a lot in here because some of it was making me kind of physically ill and I couldn't approach that.

But your idea that 'exercise can solve the problem' for any type of weight is just ridiculous! And I mean that.

Because sometimes the weight is due to genetic things. And sometimes it's going to persist even if a person has perfect diet and exercise. This happens all the time. Sometimes diseases that are otherwise pretty chill can cause a person to be overweight. Sometimes it's just how a person is built.

And before you try and say that's impossible, let me remind you of something -- genetics dictate nearly everything about how a person looks, right? This will include a general body type. I mean, if you take what you're saying literally, you could be implying that everyone should be able to look like a model. Which is stupid because seriously we're not all built that way!

I'm going to use a personal example as to why diet and exercise aren't the end all things.

I'm 5'2, 5'3, and I weigh around 150. I have been this weight and height since I was, like, fourteenish? And even though a lot of it is muscle mass, there is definitely some fat on me. And I've tried to get rid of it, obviously, I mean I have body issues out the wazoo. But nothing worked.

And don't try to tell me I wasn't exercising enough. I usually did around three hours of vigorous dance lessons every weekday. I'm not talking shitty beginner stuff, either, I mean non-stop tap lessons and ballet classes that left me feeling like I couldn't stand up. I definitely didn't eat like shit either -- hell, I didn't even eat that much, since I never ate my school lunch.

So by all means I should have been the image of the perfect dancer. Skinny and petite.

Nope.

My body has almost not changed in years. Despite what I do. Despite how hard I work, how much I sweat, how much I push myself. I'm kind of resigned to this just being how my body is going to be for like forever.

And you know what makes it really hard to exercise to try and change it?

I have exercise-induced asthma. Meaning if I try to do physical exercise, I can't breathe. Fun, right! That makes exercise real easy!

Seriously, you need to back off on your assumptions and your insinuations that you are Always Right because you're not. Not everyone is just like you.

 

[Jolty]

Being fat is immoral because, at least in Britain, your acts hurt everybody. So much money goes towards helping the obese, so much money goes towards helping those with obesity-related illnesses. And it should. Of course it should. That's what the NHS is there for. The thing is though, acting as though being fat is okay means that more people become fat. Because hey, why the hell not?

have you SEEN the amount of stuff there is to promote living healthier?

A society that accepts fat people, a society that acts as though obesity is all fine and dandy, inevitably sets an example to children - 'hey kids! eat all you like! do it yaaaay!' and this leads from a community of fat children to a community of fat adults.

and my above point goes DOUBLE for kids. in schools, they only serve healthy foods for lunch. there's a whole thing about WALKING to school instead of being driven/getting the bus. I could go on.

This destroys the very foundations of civilization because, in the end, those who are obese can't function as well as fit people.
I mean sure, a fatass scholar doesn't need to be fit to do his job, so that's okay.

>use of the word fatass
>DESTROYING CIVILISATION

But then you realise that obesity is inversely proportional to your education - that is the lower classes are fatter than the more educated middle classes. This means that you have an entire generation of fatties who can't perform their jobs - they couldn't go to uni, so they didn't have the chance to get well-paying, less active jobs, and so they're stuck unemployed for the rest of their lives.

if this was in real life, this would be where I punched you in the face several times over.
being overweight has JACK SHIT to do with your education. WHERE you got this bullshit from I'll never know.
I'M SORRY ME BEING WORKING CLASS AND A "FATTY" IS RUINING THE LIVES OF ALL YOU RICH PEOPLE WHO GO TO THE GYM ALL THE TIME REALLY I'M SORRY
sorry we're such working class scum!!!!

So now we have all these people who live off benefits, who are more susceptible to diseases and illnesses, cannot work, and just basically leach off of society.
Along with this, they're setting a terrible example to children.
I think that's pretty fucking immoral.

yeah there are leechers (like my next door neighbours) but then there are people like my family who try so hard to get some work but we're not all jammy bastards like you who get everything handed to us so easily. oh but my dad's overweight so we must be setting a bad example for children :)))))

Well hitting the gym is the answer to that. If you're too fat, hit the gym. You'll get less fat. If you're too nervous? Hit the gym. Everybody's nice, you'll get fitter. BAM! Confidence skyrockets.

it's STILL not the solution to EVERYTHING
yes it can make you feel confident, but it doesn't make EVERYONE feel confident.

I still don't understand why everybody's opposed to self-improvement?
It sounds to me, and I don't want to be rude, but that you're all just trying to justify the fact that you're too lazy to get out and about.

you don't know everybody's circumstances (OR DO YOU, YOU SEEM TO KNOW EVERYTHING........) so why do you keep making these snap judgements?????

I mean god damn, I started doing weights, jogging etc when I was 12. I was fat. Not that fat, but I had some flab rolls at my belly, and had fugly ass manboobs. So I started training, and when I was 14, I started going to a proper gym. I've never looked back.

congratulations, now if we can only start working on your condescending annoying as fuck attitude before it's too late.

 

[Saith]

if this was in real life, this would be where I punched you in the face several times over.
being overweight has JACK SHIT to do with your education. WHERE you got this bullshit from I'll never know.
I'M SORRY ME BEING WORKING CLASS AND A "FATTY" IS RUINING THE LIVES OF ALL YOU RICH PEOPLE WHO GO TO THE GYM ALL THE TIME REALLY I'M SORRY
sorry we're such working class scum!!!!

Pssst, I'm the most working-class motherfucker ever.
Or whichever one's below working class, at least. <3

 

[Phantom]

But okay then. If you genuinely cannot afford to go to the gym (and seriously? not even one of those tiny, mom and pop gyms that reside in towns? The two pound an hour, once a week type gyms?), then jog for an hour. Hell, if nothing else, walk to school.
Don't have the time? Well anybody reading this obviously does have the time. You're just spending it online.
If you're too scared?
...
Well hitting the gym is the answer to that. If you're too fat, hit the gym. You'll get less fat. If you're too nervous? Hit the gym. Everybody's nice, you'll get fitter. BAM! Confidence skyrockets.

Mom and pop gyms? They have a diner next door or what? Wtf? OK I am someone who can't afford a gym. Hell I can't afford my fucking rent half the time. Sorry rent and bills come before a gym. I've explained my particular money situation numerous times, and you know what I am not doing that again.

You seem to think it's as easy as that huh? Just go there and 'poof' all better? What are you ten? Still believe in Santa? Life isn't fair and doesn't work out that way. Did you even read my other post?

.
I still don't understand why everybody's opposed to self-improvement?
It sounds to me, and I don't want to be rude, but that you're all just trying to justify the fact that you're too lazy to get out and about.
I mean god damn, I started doing weights, jogging etc when I was 12. I was fat. Not that fat, but I had some flab rolls at my belly, and had fugly ass manboobs. So I started training, and when I was 14, I started going to a proper gym. I've never looked back.

Um, excuse me?

Well excuse me. I didn't know I was in the same forum as the most amazing person ever, let me just go find you that award I threw in the trash last week.

You don't know us. You don't know people's lives. You have no right to compare yourself to us in any way, shape, or form. Please just shut up now before you become the next Pwnemon.

Here want to know about me. I've played sports my entire life, worked out, ate semi healthy. Still overweight. Work in a job where being healthy is important. Hell almost joined the military.

Assuming is the most annoying fucking...

 

[ultraviolet]

But okay then. If you genuinely cannot afford to go to the gym (and seriously? not even one of those tiny, mom and pop gyms that reside in towns? The two pound an hour, once a week type gyms?), then jog for an hour. Hell, if nothing else, walk to school.
Don't have the time? Well anybody reading this obviously does have the time. You're just spending it online.
If you're too scared?
...
Well hitting the gym is the answer to that. If you're too fat, hit the gym. You'll get less fat. If you're too nervous? Hit the gym. Everybody's nice, you'll get fitter. BAM! Confidence skyrockets.

Hi! I'm Jess and I'm genetically predisposed to: heart disease, cancer, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, type 2 diabetes, gestational diabetes, irritable bowel syndrome, Crohn's disease, and well, yeah, obesity. Most of these are linked to (and worsened by) obesity, yeah? Crohn's disease kind of prevents me from digesting fibre, which is one of those wonderful things that speeds up your metabolism and helps you lose weight (usually in the form of wholegrain foods, muesli, that sort of stuff). It has a tendency to rupture someone's digestive system if they have Crohn's (also IBS to a lesser degree iirc). I have to eat a lot of healthy foods (including leafy vegetables, like spinach and so on) in moderation. I think it's kind of silly to flat-out refuse to believe that obesity isn't genetic, considering just about everyone in my family is obese, and we're all active, eat relatively healthy, and are constantly trying to lose weight. It's kind of ignorant (and rude) to just tell people to 'go to the gym' because hey, it's not always the problem; my grandfather swims for about two hours every day. This is the only exercise he can do, because he has a whole host of joint problems. He is still fat. He has diabetes because of this. In fact, he's exercised pretty much every day for the last four years or so. He eats healthily.

Personally? I can't afford a gym. My schedule is something like: work, sleep, uni, do homework. Not only can I not afford a gym (and yeah, they're pretty expensive here) - I don't really have the time. Giving up the few hours I get each day to come on here and unwind to go to a gym would probably mean I wouldn't get anything done. You can't really point to the fact that people use the internet as evidence of them just being 'too lazy' to go to a gym. I'm not even that inactive; I don't have a car, so I walk practically everywhere. I spend three hours a day on public transport. If I used transport any less than I do now and walked more, I probably wouldn't have time to work considering how far I have to go and how long it takes me. I have an active job - I stock shelves at a grocery store, which means frequently lifting weights of 12kg or more. I'm still overweight. I have stretch marks on my stretch marks. My entire abdominal area is pretty much marshmallow.

And even if I could go to the gym? The attitude that you've shown towards basically anyone overweight - that if we're fat, we're just being lazy? I don't think I could confront that while also trying to improve myself. Going to a gym is not going to always cure someone of self-consciousness, bad self-image or confidence. I don't want to go somewhere where I feel that uncomfortable. I shouldn't have to. I don't think anyone wants to see most parts of my body wobble while I wheeze and pant on an exercise machine. And not everyone is nice (and frankly, I'm kind of surprised you would assume that). Lots of people aren't and stare and are rude and don't like overweight people. This is crippling for me and lots of other people who are overweight.

Assuming that people are fat because they're not exercising enough or because they're not eating healthily is just... ridiculously ignorant, I'm sorry. What works for you doesn't work for everyone; not everyone has your genes and your situation.

Also, I'd really appreciate if you could stop referring to overweight people as 'fatass', 'fatty' and so on. It's hurtful and there are plenty of ways to mention them without being rude.

 

[Aisling]

Alright guys, calm down. We're getting a little off-topic. If you guys want to continue this particular discussion, I can make a thread for it and move the related posts to it (but I'm reluctant to just go ahead and do that because some of the posts have bits of both topics, also what exactly would the topic debating? is science telling the truth that obesity is sometimes genetic? or that "fat people" are ruining society? what?) but I don't want this thread to turn nasty again so quickly, and things are already starting to sound kind of heated and personal.

edit: oops um now I feel like an ass because another mod posted while I was writing and didn't feel the need to say this too so maybe I'm overreacting >; UM well uh umm. Yes I agree that the derogatory terms really need to be cut down upon here

 

[Butterfree]

This thread has gotten way off topic, but I can't just leave this alone:

But then you realise that obesity is inversely proportional to your education - that is the lower classes are fatter than the more educated middle classes. This means that you have an entire generation of fatties who can't perform their jobs - they couldn't go to uni, so they didn't have the chance to get well-paying, less active jobs, and so they're stuck unemployed for the rest of their lives.

Correlation is not causation! Being fat doesn't magically make people fail their education - it's the lower-class-ness that causes both of them, since lower classes have to eat cheaper food, which is often less healthy. More people getting fat for reasons unrelated to class does not somehow stunt their education.

Also, this whole argument that "oh, no, fat people need health care so THEY DESTROY SOCIETY" is stupid. People get injured playing sports and need health care; that means they DESTROY SOCIETY. People get injured at the gym; that means gyms DESTROY SOCIETY. People get into car accidents; driving cars DESTROYS SOCIETY. Come on.

 

[Saith]

Correlation is not causation! Being fat doesn't magically make people fail their education - it's the lower-class-ness that causes both of them, since lower classes have to eat cheaper food, which is often less healthy. More people getting fat for reasons unrelated to class does not somehow stunt their education.

Yeah, that's what I said. We're lower class, so we have a much lower chance of even reaching the point where we can say 'hey, you know what? I wanna go to uni!'.
So the cycle continues - low education, get fat, have kids, they get a bad education, they get fat, etc etc'.

Also, this whole argument that "oh, no, fat people need health care so THEY DESTROY SOCIETY" is stupid. People get injured playing sports and need health care; that means they DESTROY SOCIETY. People get injured at the gym; that means gyms DESTROY SOCIETY. People get into car accidents; driving cars DESTROYS SOCIETY. Come on.

Well the difference between fat people needing care and athletes needing care is... Well, it's so different, if for no other reason than one being productive while one being absolutely pointless.
I mean, it's the difference between smokers and drivers needing care. Driving carries risk, but it's productive, it's useful, it's practically bloody necessary. Smoking is not, and the same is said of obesity.
Besides, being fat practically guarantees the need for aid, while driving or playing footy does not.

Also, I'd really appreciate if you could stop referring to overweight people as 'fatass', 'fatty' and so on. It's hurtful and there are plenty of ways to mention them without being rude.

Well okay, but only if everybody apologises for calling me all those mean things. My womanly muscles are rippling with an aching, bone-deep sadness, and I can't stop them. It really hurt my feelings. :'(

oops um now I feel like an ass because another mod posted while I was writing and didn't feel the need to say this too so maybe I'm overreacting >; UM well uh umm. Yes I agree that the derogatory terms really need to be cut down upon here

(You could also totally be having an opinion that's not the same as everybody else. It's okay, it happens. You just have to bore a hole in your forehead, and all that silliness will disappear. <3)

Mom and pop gyms?

*shrug* The one I used to go to was £1.25 an hour. It was owned by some guy, in between a grocery store and a co-op, and usually had only one or two people there. A small, family-owned business rather than a megaconglomerate empire. That's what mom-and-pop means, yeah?

The attitude that you've shown towards basically anyone overweight - that if we're fat, we're just being lazy? I don't think I could confront that while also trying to improve myself.

There's a contradiction in there somewhere. If you did work out even semi-regularly, then I'd see nothing wrong. Trying to improve yourself is a great thing, and nobody'd look down on you for it - they might snort when they see your settings, but that's just friendly competition.

 

[Jolty]

Saith you are making my head hurt from anger and you are blatantly not listening to a goddamn word anyone is saying so I give up.

 

[Saith]

Jolty, you are making my head hurt from confusion, and though you are blatantly trying to insult me, I will not give in. No. I will prevail.

 

[Phantom]

Saith you are making my head hurt from anger and you are blatantly not listening to a goddamn word anyone is saying so I give up.

Quoted for truth. I would say get your head out your ass, but I think it's so far up there it might be impossible.

I liked you Saith, but now you remind me too much of Pwnemon. Your comments are freaking bordering on trolling.

BACK ON TOPIC

Ok, instead putting people in categories, we make it simple. You're trans? SO? OK what do you prefer? OK! That's what I'll say. Ha who needs overly complicated and new person confusing terms when you can just tell people what you want to be called and then just run with it! Is that so hard?

Why do humans have to CLASSIFY everything? Seriously.

 

[Hiikaru]

Alright guys, calm down. We're getting a little off-topic. If you guys want to continue this particular discussion, I can make a thread for it and move the related posts to it (but I'm reluctant to just go ahead and do that because some of the posts have bits of both topics, also what exactly would the topic debating? is science telling the truth that obesity is sometimes genetic? or that "fat people" are ruining society? what?) but I don't want this thread to turn nasty again so quickly, and things are already starting to sound kind of heated and personal.

Could the posts be moved there without taking them away from here, like quoting? (if that's what the problem is?) I think it would be nice for it to have its own thread - if a part of conversation gets taken away, suddenly people can't express their ideas about it anymore!

BACK ON TOPIC

Ok, instead putting people in categories, we make it simple. You're trans? SO? OK what do you prefer? OK! That's what I'll say. Ha who needs overly complicated and new person confusing terms when you can just tell people what you want to be called and then just run with it! Is that so hard?

Why do humans have to CLASSIFY everything? Seriously.

What do you mean about terms being confusing? That's something you keep saying, but you don't seem to know what's confusing you - is there something in particular that could be addressed?

I think it's fine if you don't really care what someone's classifications are as long as you're still making sure they're comfortable by asking for their preferences, and I'm not sure who you're arguing with about that, because I don't think anyone's said otherwise!

Having words to talk with generally makes it so people can explain things and talk about things better and helps to increase awareness that there's a problem, but if you already do your best to comply with what people prefer, why would you be forced to learn a bunch of classifications that just confuse you, and who do you feel like is forcing you to learn them?

It's like there are tons of animals with names you'll probably never know, but no one is making you learn the names, they're just there if you want them! And some people do want them and do want to talk about classifications, and it's okay for them to want to do that! You don't need to be a part of those conversations if all they do is confuse you!

 

[Dannichu]

How about something like motorbiking, bungee-jumping or skiing? All are very high-risk activities that aren't productive except for being fun for people who choose to do it. My mother worked in A&E for enough years to not let my sister and I anywhere near motorcycles because she'd helped amputate far too many legs. Obviously, I don't think those people should've been left bleeding by the roadside, but it's clear that those who choose to ride bikes are taking a risk with their own safety, the safety of others, as well as costing the NHS much more than those who drive or use public transport.

Also, I wrote an essay on social policy in relation to obesity in the second year of my BA, and I have to say I think you're the first person I've ever read who has suggested that if people go the the gym, they're more likely to eventually go to uni.