Mawile
C'EST LA VIE
- Pronoun
- he/him
well if they don't choose someone to send them to, it would be randomized to town anyway
-
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Gym Leader Choice Pokémafia 2 - Game Thread
- Thread starter M&F
- Start date
bruh moment
gone.
- Pronoun
- she/they
that's my point
they don't have the option to just take them to the grave
so it would almost inevitably benefit town
-m
Mawile
C'EST LA VIE
- Pronoun
- he/him
like if they were already forced to give them to someone outside of the ingroup, then wouldn't it be preferable to choose someone who says "my badge ability isn't very good" than to have it rand onto someone who has a stronger ability
bruh moment
gone.
- Pronoun
- she/they
i mean, if that's indeed the case, then yeah that would be optimal
probably going to disengage from this game for a while tbh, it's me(wtini!) so i'll likely not fully be sticking to that but i won't be following as closely for the next chunk of the phase. ping if y'all need anything
-m
Sorry for wigging out earlier. I don't know to what extent I'll be able to participate in this game, but I'll do my best.
In general, @rari_teh , I think you really just don't like the way I play the game. We seem to have fundamentally different ideas about how to go about winning--in particular, I prefer more information in the open sooner rather than later, while I think you prefer to keep things quiet for as long as possible. Obviously, public information is accessible to the Mafia as well as to Town, so you have to be judicious about what you reveal, but in a role madness game I think a lot of Town power comes out of the ability to compare notes and force the Mafia to make claims that can then be discredited based on the abilities on Town's side. The Town has a huge advantage over the Mafia in terms of the number and variety of night powers at their disposal, but to take advantage of that Town needs to compare notes and work together to entrap the Mafia.
Yes, I'm going to ask people how their roles work. I'm not pressing people to disclose their roles if they're not comfortable doing so; if they do make a claim about their role, I'm trying to understand how these roles (allegedly) function so that Town can figure out how to use them to our advantage. For example, the specifics of Tofu's claimed power matter a lot for how it can be used, e.g. the fact that they can choose new targets opens up the ability to e.g. get an extra inspection off, if we end up with a confirmed cop, while on the flip side the fact that it doesn't inform Tofu of the copied ability makes it a lot less useful for confirming any role that doesn't directly return a mod message. Being exact about role powers leaves less wiggle room for Mafia to hide if they make a fakeclaim, since they may not have thought through the implications of the role they made up, and it leaves them less leeway to go "oops, I didn't realize it doesn't work like X" if later on something happens that contradicts what they said. In RNP's case, I wanted to determine what utility was actually left in his (fake) ability--as he described it, it has the most utility if the mafia don't know what's coming and might not all target him, but even if they know what's up, the utility isn't zero. They would still be forced between targeting him with everything or letting RNP know who they all were. Like, if it was possible to get a doc on him and activate that power, we'd be guaranteed either a no-kill night or the identity of all the Mafia, which would put the mafia in a rough spot even though they'd be able to make an informed decision about what they wanted to do. I wanted to know flavor info because it struck me as, shall we say, a rather odd claim, and again one area people screw up fakeclaims is by coming up with something that seems out of place with the rest of their role; MF usually puts in a lot of work to make player roles thematically coherent. In general, once someone has made a claim about their role, I think it's more advantageous to Town to get information on how exactly it works because, again, Town has much more power than Mafia to manipulate what happens at night. Understanding these interactions is going to be more useful to Town than to Mafia and greatly increases our ability to plan.
I know that this style of play is considered out of vogue these days, to the extent that some people apparently consider focusing on mechanics at all anti-Town behavior. But, like... this sort of game is all about the mechanics. That's what I'm here for. And, frankly, given the performance of Town factions recently, forgive me if I'm not convinced that trying to pick apart people's posts and argue about whether they sound slightly different this game than they did that one time they were Mafia is actually a more effective Town strategy than playing the way I've always played. I'm trying to understand what's going on in the game so I can find contradictions, find ways to verify or refute people's claims, and take control of the night phase.
I understand if you don't want to elaborate on any mechanical information you might have that leads you to suspect me, but without that there's really nothing else for me to say. Although if there's something specific I didn't address to you satisfaction, feel free to bring it up; I probably just missed it.
--
Right now the people I feel worst about are Mr. Ultracool and RNP. Some of Ultracool's behavior yesterday seemed kind of odd, but watcher is a very powerful role that I absolutely wouldn't want to lose through a mislynch. The fact that he decided to watch himself despite people pointing out how his plan made no sense is very odd, and makes me a bit worried that he's playing his own game over there; we've seen multiple abilities that appear to depend on whether or not someone visits you in the night, so he might have simply been trying to discourage people from targeting him in order to gain some kind of advantage. I'm not at the point of pushing to lynch yet, but if he watched himself again tonight or did something else bizarre, I absolutely would.
Meanwhile, RNP obviously made something up yesterday. It's possible he has some amazing ability that will be a huge benefit to Town if he gets enough badges and was fabricating this exciting power to get everyone to give him badges without revealing his real abilities, but I don't like the way he's gone about it. There's a whole lot of effort wasted on discussing his fakeclaim, and I think if he were Town, he could have come up with a better way to As I mentioned yesterday, I'm also uncomfortable with the parallels between his claim and Zori's, especially now given that Zori flipped third party.
If you asked me to lynch someone on the spot, I would probably flip a coin to pick between one of those two; I keep flip-flopping on which I feel worse about. Those are two people where I don't feel like I understand how what they're doing is working towards a Town win.
--
Additionally, I knew that rari was going to come for me in the next day phase, and so holding onto vig power in hopes of getting a better shot later seemed like an unwise move. Better to at least do something while I had the chance than hope that I lived and also saw a better opportunity later.
Although consider not seeing how I flip and go after some actual scum instead.
--
Also, apropos of nothing, I can confirm that Myuma was telling the truth about her ability to give people the power to send posthumous messages; she used it on me last night.
In general, @rari_teh , I think you really just don't like the way I play the game. We seem to have fundamentally different ideas about how to go about winning--in particular, I prefer more information in the open sooner rather than later, while I think you prefer to keep things quiet for as long as possible. Obviously, public information is accessible to the Mafia as well as to Town, so you have to be judicious about what you reveal, but in a role madness game I think a lot of Town power comes out of the ability to compare notes and force the Mafia to make claims that can then be discredited based on the abilities on Town's side. The Town has a huge advantage over the Mafia in terms of the number and variety of night powers at their disposal, but to take advantage of that Town needs to compare notes and work together to entrap the Mafia.
Yes, I'm going to ask people how their roles work. I'm not pressing people to disclose their roles if they're not comfortable doing so; if they do make a claim about their role, I'm trying to understand how these roles (allegedly) function so that Town can figure out how to use them to our advantage. For example, the specifics of Tofu's claimed power matter a lot for how it can be used, e.g. the fact that they can choose new targets opens up the ability to e.g. get an extra inspection off, if we end up with a confirmed cop, while on the flip side the fact that it doesn't inform Tofu of the copied ability makes it a lot less useful for confirming any role that doesn't directly return a mod message. Being exact about role powers leaves less wiggle room for Mafia to hide if they make a fakeclaim, since they may not have thought through the implications of the role they made up, and it leaves them less leeway to go "oops, I didn't realize it doesn't work like X" if later on something happens that contradicts what they said. In RNP's case, I wanted to determine what utility was actually left in his (fake) ability--as he described it, it has the most utility if the mafia don't know what's coming and might not all target him, but even if they know what's up, the utility isn't zero. They would still be forced between targeting him with everything or letting RNP know who they all were. Like, if it was possible to get a doc on him and activate that power, we'd be guaranteed either a no-kill night or the identity of all the Mafia, which would put the mafia in a rough spot even though they'd be able to make an informed decision about what they wanted to do. I wanted to know flavor info because it struck me as, shall we say, a rather odd claim, and again one area people screw up fakeclaims is by coming up with something that seems out of place with the rest of their role; MF usually puts in a lot of work to make player roles thematically coherent. In general, once someone has made a claim about their role, I think it's more advantageous to Town to get information on how exactly it works because, again, Town has much more power than Mafia to manipulate what happens at night. Understanding these interactions is going to be more useful to Town than to Mafia and greatly increases our ability to plan.
I know that this style of play is considered out of vogue these days, to the extent that some people apparently consider focusing on mechanics at all anti-Town behavior. But, like... this sort of game is all about the mechanics. That's what I'm here for. And, frankly, given the performance of Town factions recently, forgive me if I'm not convinced that trying to pick apart people's posts and argue about whether they sound slightly different this game than they did that one time they were Mafia is actually a more effective Town strategy than playing the way I've always played. I'm trying to understand what's going on in the game so I can find contradictions, find ways to verify or refute people's claims, and take control of the night phase.
I understand if you don't want to elaborate on any mechanical information you might have that leads you to suspect me, but without that there's really nothing else for me to say. Although if there's something specific I didn't address to you satisfaction, feel free to bring it up; I probably just missed it.
--
Right now the people I feel worst about are Mr. Ultracool and RNP. Some of Ultracool's behavior yesterday seemed kind of odd, but watcher is a very powerful role that I absolutely wouldn't want to lose through a mislynch. The fact that he decided to watch himself despite people pointing out how his plan made no sense is very odd, and makes me a bit worried that he's playing his own game over there; we've seen multiple abilities that appear to depend on whether or not someone visits you in the night, so he might have simply been trying to discourage people from targeting him in order to gain some kind of advantage. I'm not at the point of pushing to lynch yet, but if he watched himself again tonight or did something else bizarre, I absolutely would.
Meanwhile, RNP obviously made something up yesterday. It's possible he has some amazing ability that will be a huge benefit to Town if he gets enough badges and was fabricating this exciting power to get everyone to give him badges without revealing his real abilities, but I don't like the way he's gone about it. There's a whole lot of effort wasted on discussing his fakeclaim, and I think if he were Town, he could have come up with a better way to As I mentioned yesterday, I'm also uncomfortable with the parallels between his claim and Zori's, especially now given that Zori flipped third party.
If you asked me to lynch someone on the spot, I would probably flip a coin to pick between one of those two; I keep flip-flopping on which I feel worse about. Those are two people where I don't feel like I understand how what they're doing is working towards a Town win.
--
This one honestly seemed like a no-brainer to me? Like, I see zero reason why a Town player would ever claim third-party, so I felt like Herbe 99.99% was indeed 3p. My reading of the Town win condition is that we need to eliminate all non-Town, since I'm used to seeing "scum" used to collectively refer to any non-Town players, as distinct from the Mafia, a specific non-Town faction. So, obviously, we would have needed to deal with Herbe at some point anyway. I know bruh is tired of talking about this, and I agree the specific meaning isn't important to discuss right now; I bring it up only because it informed my reasoning. I wouldn't generally be okay with leaving a confirmed third-party player to just hang out, because at very best them pursuing their wincon would be neutral to town, and often 3p wincons are actively anti-town, but like, if we actively have to get rid of them to win... away they go.
Additionally, I knew that rari was going to come for me in the next day phase, and so holding onto vig power in hopes of getting a better shot later seemed like an unwise move. Better to at least do something while I had the chance than hope that I lived and also saw a better opportunity later.
One
Although consider not seeing how I flip and go after some actual scum instead.
--
Also, apropos of nothing, I can confirm that Myuma was telling the truth about her ability to give people the power to send posthumous messages; she used it on me last night.
rari_teh
knives dealer
- Pronoun
- any%
thank you so much for the insight. i’d really rather not elaborate at the moment on the mech information i have that makes me still suspect you, but i believe the amount of effort you put into your reasoning and the genuine frustration you seem to be experiencing are extremely hard to fake as mafia. i think i now understand your line of reasoning as town here, even though i do not subscribe to it at all. i must confess that after you claimed joat i really didn’t want to come to the conclusion that you were town because the implications otherwise would be either a bit otherworldly or quite scary, but. i am increasingly afraid that i’ve made a clown out of myself. unvote for now, but i’m still keeping an eye.
if you are indeed town, i’m sorry for the tunnel :<
this sounds so ominous omg. sorry again
@ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ can you confirm this?
JackPK
blame telegram
- Pronoun
- he/him
I am satisfied by Negrek's replies to my questions. I do not want to yeet her toDay anymore.
is this gonna be a get stickbugged meme
Mawile
C'EST LA VIE
- Pronoun
- he/him
can i see the bug please
Mawile
C'EST LA VIE
- Pronoun
- he/him
i assume because rari voted Negrek right at the end of day 1?
Stryke
The finchiest of widgets
- Pronoun
- he
bruh moment
gone.
- Pronoun
- she/they
bruh moment
gone.
- Pronoun
- she/they
lol ok, fine
the actual answer is that rari literally cased negrek at EoD (plus the vote, as mawile mentioned)
they had a whole interaction!!!
-m
bruh moment
gone.
- Pronoun
- she/they