Gym Leader Choice Pokémafia 2 - Game Thread

[Ys_]

I don't really understand this. Is your thesis just that Negrek has a kill every night in addition to the main mafia one? If so, (a) why were there still no deaths on N0 despite two attempts, and (b) why would that make Negrek mafia as opposed to, say, a vig? (And, if you think Blu is actually town, (c) with two shots last night, how come the mafia still didn't kill him?)

No. I don't think she's mafia. I kind of thought she may be acting on her own, and I thought her role could be something like what zori claimed. Badge-powered serial killer maybe? But yeah, you're right, I can see how that doesn't make sense and besides it would be kind of unbalanced for town. And to reply to the blu question, I was thinking that mafia didn't kill him at night because they would have figured he'd be an easy mislynch with the associative read. I mean, if you think about it, it makes sense to kill both bm and vm since bm was powertowning hard and vm had the bodyguard/lure ability. The kill that doesn't make much sense, at least imo, is rnp's because while he may have had a powerful badgepower, it seemed clear (at least to me) that he didn't have those badges yet. It could be because everyone was reading him as confirmed town, though. idk.

Also, even if the deaths were caused by that strange kill-everyone-who-visits-your-target role (which there's no evidence for and seems implausible for the balance reasons others have mentioned), we have no particular reason to think RNP didn't have enough badges for his other ability. Hydreigon's badge(s) would have arrived at the beginning of N2 (alongside Herbe's, as you claimed, right?), and as nobody has acknowledged receiving them, it's at least reasonably likely they went to one of tonight's casualties. Unless Hydrei accidentally gave them to the mafia, I suppose.

Um.. fwiw, badges are received during the day phase, actually. I received mine in the middle of the day phase and Stryke just claimed having received RNP's. And Hydre's unfortunate grudge on RNP would probably mean that they sent their badges to someone else instead.

Altogether, this post makes no sense whatsoever and frankly I'm kinda side-eyeing you for it.

I guess it made sense to me at the time, but maybe it was just me jumping to conclusions again. :/

Also, I want to say rari's claim actually does make a lot of sense and explains why she jumped on zori the way she did after her claim and also explains why she initially was as sus of Negrek as she was. And she did ask the question about anyone else having woke up weary and without being able to move a muscle (which no one seemed to really get at the time, but actually makes a lot of sense with their roleblockerish role).

rari, why did you shoot hydre though? Did you think they were 3p?

 

[qenya]

Um.. fwiw, badges are received during the day phase, actually. I received mine in the middle of the day phase and Stryke just claimed having received RNP's.

Oh. Huh. You're right, I'd forgotten Stryke had mentioned he'd already got RNP's badges... Hmm. My role seems to imply badges can only be sent/received at a phase change, though. Lemme go and check again.

 

[qenya]

Hmm. My role seems to imply badges can only be sent/received at a phase change, though. Lemme go and check again.

Okay, yes, it doesn't actually require that to be the case, it was just me making a poorly founded assumption. Ugh. Sorry. That also makes my badge power considerably more powerful than I thought, which is irritating because I would've been hinting at it much earlier on if I'd realised. Ah well.

 

[qenya]

Hmm, I wonder if it would be possible for dead players to reveal information by the time of day they distribute their badges...?

And she did ask the question about anyone else having woke up weary and without being able to move a muscle (which no one seemed to really get at the time, but actually makes a lot of sense with their roleblockerish role).

This is true, although it's not quite what Jack said he received:

I got my normal expected result, plus the "RNP is mafia" result that RNP told us about, plus this:

"and furthermore, hmmmadksfhjajkfakdfbasdkhjazzzzzzzzzzt"

And then it told me I cannot take actions until the night after next.

rari did immediately come up with the solution, though, and then jumped to a consistent conclusion about who killed Herbe, soooo I'm more inclined to just put it down to them reporting/interpreting the flavour slightly differently.

 

[Ys_]

My assumption was that you send during the day if you were killed at night and send during the night if you were lynched

 

[Ys_]

I think I messed up :( sorry town. I don't want to claim my role yet, but I feel less sure about Blu now. And sorry for jumping to conclusions about your role, Negrek..

 

[Bluwiikoon]

Thank you everyone for your patience with me!! ^^ These past two irl days have been a bit of a doozy!

@Bluwiikoon Just to echo what Isabel asked... Do you have any hunches about the people still in the game? You don't have to reveal your role.

Hi Negrek! ^^ Admittedly I'm still a bit wary of your JOAT claim, especially since your action last Night apparently didn't turn up anything useful? You did also side with Tofu yesterday I think, but I also got pocketed so I can't fault you too much on that one. koko and Jack also unnerve me with how hard they're pushing at me, but that's probably a natural response feeling to being scrutinised? I know I'm being side-eyed a bit for not doing much this game, but I also admittedly can't remember much that either of them have done. Nor myuma for that matter... (That... could also be my ADHD memory oops)

I feel really good about Ysabel and rari though! :D rari is always a strong player, and the tone from both of them is really good imo. Maybe I'm being pocketed again though, auuughhh-!

I targeted Ultracool last night. It was going to be UC or Blu, and while I find Blu suspicious, I thought Blu’s suspiciousness could be attributed to bad luck or bad play much more easily. I don't like Ultracool's play for the reasons everyone else has given and I'm fairly sure he's going to get yeeted at some point or another. Sorry, UC.

I went through Blu's ISO and and a few things in there gave me pause for thought. Firstly there is the Tofu thing. That could be attributed to coincidence, but I also noticed that he was trying to discourage people from joining the Tofu wagon, which doesn't look well considering Tofu turned out to be mafia. Blu has also been defending Ultracool on the basis that UC is a watcher, even though whatever UC is doing as watcher hasn't been much of a benefit to town. Essentially, he's looking bad by association with other suspicious folks, as pure as Blu's tone usually is.

I'm still not completely convinced that we should lynch him, so I'd like to see how @Bluwiikoon reacts to these accusations (and the accusations of others) before doing anything. Otherwise I'll probably vote Ultracool today, if I'm not convinced by rari's upcoming post on kokorico. I also agree with Ysabel that we should think about why the players were killed last night, not how.

Finally, I might as well claim my second power. It's called Art Criticism and allows me to act as a coroner. I can see the role and alignment of any dead player who I've targeted with my free action (for those who don't remember, my free action allows player to write a message that will be displayed if they die). It needs 3 badges to activate, so I don't think I'll be using it any time soon.

Hi myuma! ^^ You're right in that Sir Ultracool's power could very feasibly be mafia-aligned, in which case I'm gonna feel really silly for giving him a pass on that. Essentially, I thought his powers could be really handy for town if he could catch suspicious activities happening, but the lack of any results yesterDay and toDay from him seems a bit off. :( All I can really say about the Tofu stuff is uhhhh my bad, I got a bit pocketed and doubted she was mafia up until she posted the Death Note thing. I really wanted to believe that she just misread her role PM...!

I'm feeling strange rn because I remember ms Tofu writing a really detailed post about UC theories, and I think she said something about him being outgroup? I think if someone went back and looked at that, we could get a better idea of how wolf!Tofu and sir Ultracool are aligned, if at all.

my free power, Fae Trick, is night-delayed vig. every Night i pick one target who will survive the following Day and then expire the following Night.
my badgepower, Misty Terrain (2 badges), cancels all deaths in a Night caused by an action submitted the Night before.

i killed hydrei. i sent in the action N0 and sure as hell they croaked the next Night. that’s why i highly suspected there was no mafia faction before bruh revealed that their role PM mentioned mafia-aligned players – as far as i know, either negrek is lying or there were no mafia kills N1.

Hmmmm. This is an extremely believable claim, and explains a lot of the unsolved mysteries re: night actions etc. It also provides a neat explanation for the differences in flavour, which I like. I guess there's no actual mech evidence to back it up, so rest assured I'll be going through your ISO with a fine-toothed comb for contradictions, but I was townreading you anyway so I'm happy to take this as read for now.

If you don't mind my asking - earlier, just up the page (#1326), you said you were unwilling to reveal this much information. What changed to make you more willing to discuss this now? Also, can you think of any reason why your role might have led Hydreigon's death flavour to be "finely charbroiled corpse"?

originally, due to the lack of deaths on the first Night, i suspected that all kills might be night-delayed. this is the theory i was talking about to keith yesterDay, may he rest in peace. now we know that, if negrek and i are telling the truth – and i sure am –, unless more than one person killed either hydrei or herbe, the first time mafia killed was last Night. three mafia kills, all with the same flavour. i could bet money that this is the work of a cannoneer.

Initially I was dubious about a cannoneer explanation, but with the benefit of your claim it makes a great deal more sense. One thing that makes me question it is their targets. I can see why they would have gone after skytini (strongest, most vocal player) and VM (bodyguard on steroids), but RNP makes less sense, especially considering his role. I also think it still doesn't jive with Blu being town; in my previous post I said it didn't make much sense for the mafia to have two nightkills, believe town!Blu had a strong role and yet do nothing to off him, and that just gets even less plausible if they actually had three. (Mr Ultracool looks a little worse, for the same reason.)

Bro... what if the mafia kills are also delayed, like rari's vig action? Some kind of delayed cannoneer thing?

In which case, uh... I'm sure worried about the upcoming nights, I'll tell ya that much!

 

[Bluwiikoon]

The only other theory I have to my survival is that mafia have a rolecop and saw my spicy badge-powered action, which does a thing if I get killed. I certainly don't think they want me to activate that one! (they totally should though, it'll be hilarious!! Trust me!)

 

[JackPK]

the only thing Blu has done with any substance to it is come up with a role for {mafia}Tofu as she floundered in trying to cover her self-contradictions

why do you think he’d do that in the thread instead of scumchat

Tofu was clearly not playing optimally, why do you assume Blu would play optimally

i killed hydrei. i sent in the action N0

if you are town-aligned why the fuck would you vig someone n0

Um.. fwiw, badges are received during the day phase, actually. I received mine in the middle of the day phase and Stryke just claimed having received RNP's.

hm, my initial understanding of the signup thread was an assumption that badges are distributed at the end of the phase that the dead person tells MF who they want to give them to, but looking back at it, I guess the precise text is ambiguous and it could go either way

-----

I'm thinking about how to use my badge-swapping power tonight and I know I definitely don't want to put anyone in a position to where they'd need to claim that they have a useful action. But I do really want to figure out a reasonable way to try to funnel badges from non-useful people to useful people. How about this: everyone, please let me know if you do NOT want me to consider you for a badge swap. (that can be if you're non-useful + have no badges, useful + have enough badges, or just don't trust me or my claim. please don't elaborate so as not to give info to mafia about which of these buckets you fall into.) stay silent about it if you are OK with me badge-swapping you with someone else. ToNight, I'll swap two people out of those who were silent.

 

[Bluwiikoon]

Jack I get the feeling that you don't trust me, and that you'd probably disregard my swapping preferences (which for now, I'd rather not be swapped!) Would it help if I fully claimed my badge-powered action?

 

[Ys_]

I'm thinking about how to use my badge-swapping power tonight and I know I definitely don't want to put anyone in a position to where they'd need to claim that they have a useful action. But I do really want to figure out a reasonable way to try to funnel badges from non-useful people to useful people. How about this: everyone, please let me know if you do NOT want me to consider you for a badge swap. (that can be if you're non-useful + have no badges, useful + have enough badges, or just don't trust me or my claim. please don't elaborate so as not to give info to mafia about which of these buckets you fall into.) stay silent about it if you are OK with me badge-swapping you with someone else. ToNight, I'll swap two people out of those who were silent.

..this seems a bit convoluted but just to be sure: do you swap number of badges between your two targets or give one person's badges to the other person?

 

[JackPK]

I'm thinking about how to use my badge-swapping power tonight and I know I definitely don't want to put anyone in a position to where they'd need to claim that they have a useful action. But I do really want to figure out a reasonable way to try to funnel badges from non-useful people to useful people. How about this: everyone, please let me know if you do NOT want me to consider you for a badge swap. (that can be if you're non-useful + have no badges, useful + have enough badges, or just don't trust me or my claim. please don't elaborate so as not to give info to mafia about which of these buckets you fall into.) stay silent about it if you are OK with me badge-swapping you with someone else. ToNight, I'll swap two people out of those who were silent.

..this seems a bit convoluted but just to be sure: do you swap number of badges between your two targets or give one person's badges to the other person?

I swap them between the two people. So person A gets person B's badges and person B gets person A's badges. The best strategy I can think of to use this power is to try to move badges from people without useful actions to those with them, so this is my attempt at trying to find a way to do that while giving the mafia as little knowledge as possible to work with.

 

[JackPK]

Jack I get the feeling that you don't trust me, and that you'd probably disregard my swapping preferences (which for now, I'd rather not be swapped!) Would it help if I fully claimed my badge-powered action?

As I've said before, l'm not confident in my negative read of you. Don't claim something valuable just because you want to shift my opinion, but do claim if you think it's more valuable for town to know than it is risky for mafia to know.

 

[Bluwiikoon]

It could be good for my badge action to be out in the open at least, so everyone knows what I'm dealing with here :D

Using badges, my Gothorita combines its trapping abilities and psychic abilities to broadcast the name of a single mafia member who kills me to the entire thread. If they do indeed have a rolecop like I think, they'll also know that this can't be blocked. >:) Whether they feel like gambling between me using my cantrip and my badge power is up to them! And I do have enough badges, so come at me wolves. It'll be really funny and epic!! I promise!

I feel it's good for town to know at least, because if I get vigged then I guess it does nothing? And if they do keep trying to block me, well... at least that means other folks aren't getting blocked! ^^

 

[Ys_]

Oki. Pls don't count me in then

Tier list (quick bc I'm kinda busy)
rari
blu
jack
Negrek
Myuma
Koko
ZM~Mawile~Mr UC~stryke
Mawile
He kind of disappeared? Applying pressure here

 

[Bluwiikoon]

@Mawile Would love to hear from you sir Mawile! ^^ I've also noticed you've been quiet toDay

 

[rari_teh]

ok
didn’t manage to finish my kokopost before falling asleep
first of all sorry for dropping in productivity toDay. will do my best to compensate until EoD.

If you don't mind my asking - earlier, just up the page (#1326), you said you were unwilling to reveal this much information. What changed to make you more willing to discuss this now? Also, can you think of any reason why your role might have led Hydreigon's death flavour to be "finely charbroiled corpse"?

what changed is that i realized my current target, who will die toNight, might become a wagon. i reckoned it’d be better to claim beforehand so that, if i ever have to disclose my target, most doubts surrounding my claim will probably already have dissipated.

wrt hydrei’s flavour, i have no idea why he was “finely charbroiled”

RNP makes less sense, especially considering his role.

iirc he mentioned having mech info that suggested negrek was mafia. if she is mafia, they might have killed him thinking he’s cop or something similar. if she is town, they might have killed him in the hopes of using this eventually to cast shade on negrek.

rari, why did you shoot hydre though? Did you think they were 3p?

if you are town-aligned why the fuck would you vig someone n0

i targetted hydrei n0, so i had no material to guess their alignment. i chose to vig them because, regardless of alignment, they tend to cause the thread to derail easily and they are very hard to sort.

without fail, they did cause major thread disruption in the Day they were alive, even becoming a counterwagon at one point. i do not regret shooting them.

it is odd that you’re so surprised that a vig would shoot n0, jack. you were around to witness vm’s vanilla mafia.

Tofu was clearly not playing optimally, why do you assume Blu would play optimally

there’s a difference between not playing optimally and playing terribly
tofu fucked up her claim. it happens. this is not playing optimally.
w!blu wrote a fakeclaim for his scumbuddy on the public thread and she 100% went with it. this is playing terribly. (sorry if you’re wolf, blu)
this makes so little sense i can’t help but go at the people shading blu

everyone, please let me know if you do NOT want me to consider you for a badge swap. (that can be if you're non-useful + have no badges, useful + have enough badges, or just don't trust me or my claim. please don't elaborate so as not to give info to mafia about which of these buckets you fall into.)

i do not want a badge swap tyvm

now to write half-life 3 the longpost

 

[Negrek]

Well, a lot certainly happened while I was at work.

Feels like there's a ton of new info out there and not enough time to properly analyze any of it, ugh. Will go back and dig in, but some quick things up front:

@JackPK Do your targets have to be living players, or could you swap badges between a dead player and a living player?

@Bluwiikoon Do you mind saying who you've used your cantrip on?

@Mr. Ultracool PLEASE watch someone tonight. It seems like you're not really feeling the game anymore, which is fine, but even if all you did was send your night action and said what happened the next day it would be a huge help.

 

[rari_teh]

now to write half-life 3 the longpost

but before that.

@Mr. Ultracool since i’m a claimed vig i think it’s very likely that mafia will try to kill me toNight. if the rest of town agrees, i think it’d be a good idea if you watched me toNight. if i die, you’ll essentially have a redcheck in your hands; if i survive, you’ll either have the name of a doctor or a mafia roleblocker. or both.

 

[Bluwiikoon]

@Bluwiikoon Do you mind saying who you've used your cantrip on?

@Mr. Ultracool PLEASE watch someone tonight. It seems like you're not really feeling the game anymore, which is fine, but even if all you did was send your night action and said what happened the next day it would be a huge help.

Last Night I tried to use my cantrip on VM, but I think I got blocked.

Seconding what you've said to Ultracool!!! ;O; If he is town, we need his skills!