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Gym Leader Choice Pokémafia 2 - Game Thread


sorry I've not dropped the usual routine time checks, folks, my sleep schedule is crying in the club as we speak

three hours left to EoD! although, if the time's been kicking everyone's asses as much as mine, I suppose that might call for a time extension

current votes:
kokorico(1) - rari_teh (#1321)
Mawile (1) - Ysabel(#1355)


hello it is 107 degrees fahrenheit here (41 celsius) and i am Suffering
i don't have any thoughts because of said heat and i fully understand if people are suspicious of me because of Lack Of Thoughts

my role doesn't explain any weirdness or anything and also doesn't give me any insight into the actual setup, so claiming it probably wouldn't be super useful


回り続ける 歯車には成り下がらない
she, they
Ok, I'm lost as to who to vote for. I don't think there are any good candidates at the moment. Maybe I'll look at UC's ISO if I can be bothered, but it's getting to the end of the Day. I don't have anything new to add to the discussion either.

Myuma, I'm not quite sure I understand your rationale here, can you explain this to me? If your role is just to allow your target to publish a message after their death, I would have thought you would be trying to target townies with it above all else. If you thought Mr UC was more suspicious than Blu, why would you use your power on him, rather than Blu?
Because of my badge power. I think targeting suspicious players (tl;dr) those who are likely to get yeeted should be more of a priority for me, seeing as once I let someone write a message, my badge power allows me to do a postmortem of them once they die. I agree that the messages themselves would be more helpful in letting town members tell us what they want, and so I don't see it as a big deal who I target.

Tbh it would make more sense for me to target as many players as possible, regardless of what I think their alignment is, but my brain wasn't big enough to realise that right away. On a related note, if you'd like me to use my power on you because you've got something to say, give me a poke and I'll happily do that.

Anyway, time to catch some Zs...


formerly kokorico
hello it is 107 degrees fahrenheit here (41 celsius) and i am Suffering
i don't have any thoughts because of said heat
understandable tbh, stay cool

Feels like there's a ton of new info out there and not enough time to properly analyze any of it, ugh.
big mood. not really sure where to start, but uh, guess i should say something in case we don't get that extension. diving in at random, then-

@JackPK , following on from my post #1344, can you confirm whether or not your block message mentioned you being "weary" or "unable to move" in addition to the keysmash?

@Ysabel , earlier you mentioned you were planning to read some ISOs, did you manage to find anything? Or did you not have time to look in the end?

I've not turned up anything in rari's ISO so far that contradicts her claim, although I wasn't really expecting to. It has occurred to me that her role is not at all AI - she could well be telling the complete truth about it yet still be mafia - but eh.


blame telegram
@JackPK Do your targets have to be living players, or could you swap badges between a dead player and a living player?
Oh, good idea that I hadn't thought of! My role PM just says "two targets" and doesn't specify. I'm asking MF now.

three hours left to EoD! although, if the time's been kicking everyone's asses as much as mine, I suppose that might call for a time extension
holy fuck I thought EOD was still 24+ hours away. extension please yes

@JackPK , following on from my post #1344, can you confirm whether or not your block message mentioned you being "weary" or "unable to move" in addition to the keysmash?
In addition to the keysmash, it gave some flavor text that described how my scanner "caught a bad case of the short circuits" etc., but it did not include the exact phrases "weary" or "unable to move". I'm assuming the flavor text is tailored specifically to the flavor of the person affected by it, so since my night action is tech-themed, I got tech-themed flavor text.


I didn't, Koko. Or I started to but then had to do something irl. Basically, was looking at some of Tofu's interactions (hindsight is nice) and saw Mr UC more or less following Tofu's lead when claiming but then got a bit derailed. Basically:

Tofu: I want to claim bc my role isn't very useful but won't yet bc no one else has
UC: oh yeah mine isn't useful either but claiming may expose powerful roles to maf
Tofu: aight I'll claim anyway bc wynaut *proceeds to claim*
UC:ok, sure, I'll claim too *proceeds to claim as well*
RNP: where's Stryke?
UC: oh yeah, might be a good idea to vote inactives
VM: my my, UC is very eager to vote *proceeds to be sus of UC*

And then I had to go and as you can see my mind wandered from Tofu interactions to UC interactions and I'm unsure if any of it is AI bc UC may just be a bit oblivious/trusting or outgroup trying to signal to the ingroup *shrug*

Agree with the time extension btw


knives dealer
I was going to chew people out for revealing stuff this early in the game, but actually I'm starting to wonder whether the traditional received wisdom of "avoid hinting at your role, even vaguely talking about how powerful it is, to stop the mafia figuring out the best targets" is still valid? it seems like many actions have a cost in badges to use, which means they're useless unless you can successfully indicate to your townie allies how useful it would be for them to distribute theirs to you. I don't think I'm quite at the point of wanting to actually claim anything, but... hmm. anyone want to try to talk me into it or out of it?
this may or may not be koko trying to change metas. judging by how paranoid e tends to be i’m more willing to believe this is mafia trying to nudge town into giving valuable info.

hmm... i also noticed the problems rari/skytini/ysabel are pointing out with zori, but it seems to me a little too good to be true. zori is an excellent mafia player and I just can't see her involuntarily giving up this much evidence against herself. i know i tend to jump to this conclusion an awful lot, but i'm wondering if it may be worth considering the possibility that she's currently an activated alien?
i don't have a great sense of where i stand on anyone else yet, sorry. except possibly blu, who seemed extremely pure of heart, but then again he always does. i also haven't set up my usual spreadsheet yet so that's definitely hindering Thought Formation. gonna go back and reread vm, at least, tomorrow
With fresh eyes, I think Zori's behaviour yesterday was less blatant than it seemed at the time. I think possibly I was misled by the fact that everyone started talking about it immediately, but in context it wasn't really as much of an obvious I Am Scum as i was thinking. so I reckon I'm comfortable voting Zori, especially since there don't seem to be any viable counterwagons forming to Mr Ultracool, who I still think is pinging more town than scum.
one interesting pattern is that koko seems to directly defend town on d1 when e wolves. zori was 3p, but in the eyes of the ingroup it’s pretty much the same thing in this situation

I gotta say, I was astonished by both Seshas' and Herbe's flips. I was assuming that if Seshas was 3p at all she was an activated alien, and when I reread overnight I came round to the view of scumleaning Herbe (because his ISO mostly consisted of joke-FoSes, on me and others). So that was a surprise. I'm almost at the point of wondering if there's an ingroup at all, though maybe it's a bit premature to be thinking about that.
Sorry, "ingroup" was not quite the right word. What I meant is "coherent mafia faction", i.e., basically the the same thing as myuma just suggested, that there's just the town and a whole load of third parties. Like I said, though, I don't think I'm necessarily at the point of really believing this, it's just speculation for now.
since i killed hydrei, i had good reason to suspect that there was no mafia. the same cannot be said of koko. in hindsight this reads like mafia trying to steer conversation into pointless setup spec.

I guess the question we'd need to ask to differentiate the two possibilities is... in the world where Negrek is mafia, Hydrei was probably vigged, so is there a reason why the vig would have gone after him? It would have to be because of his tone, right? That would also imply the hypothetical vig didn't pay attention to the posts I quoted above, or didn't interpret them as possible cop softs. So I'd be interested in getting a quick straw poll of who did or didn't interpret them that way, to see whether it's something that a vig really ought to have noticed, or just my overactive pareidolia.
is it just me or is e openly fishing for a vig here? whoever didn’t reply that they saw hydrei’s posts as a PR soft would be the vig! this didn’t work out because my kill was submitted before d1, but mafia didn’t know that. all what they knew is that they were not responsible for hydrei’s death

Now... Having re-read most of Tofu's ISO, there are actually a couple more things that stand out to me as evidence for the Tofu/Blu w/w theory that I haven't seen anyone else mention yet. First off, her very first post contained this, which he immediately responded to:
Hey uh... Does anyone know when the times of the day and night phases end? Sorry if I missed it somewhere.
The phases end at 2am UTC! ^^
In isolation I wouldn't give that a second thought: she asked a simple question and he answered it. But it starts to become a bit more odd when they establish a pattern of call-and-response.
this really does not make any sense? blu immediately answered a meta question from tofu, ergo w/w? the only way i can interpret this is as an incredibly flimsy way of grounding an artificial SR on a townie through prolonged association, but even under that scenario this casing is especially weak

Of the two of them, I think I'd prefer to vote for Bluwiikoon. Why Blu, and not Tofu? We know, thanks to Mr. Ultracool, that Blu definitely performed an action on N0. Either, as VM says, Blu attempted to target me and was redirected to VM, or less likely, VM is lying/also mafia and Blu targeted him directly. There's any number of things that action could have been, but it happened before any deaths occurred, so it can't possibly have a badge cost. Speaking as the person he (maybe) tried to target with it, I'm not sure I want him to get off another shot.
once again, this is an especially flimsy grounding for a fake SR. koko seems to think that the very fact that blu has a night action and tried to target em at a previous Night should imply that he is mafia and/or worse than tofu if w/w.

The suspicious part is that she only "discovered" the second action after Blu inexplicably figured out exactly what it was, and then she appeared almost immediately after his post to acknowledge and confirm it, in a way that he'd previously done to several of her posts. I don't really see how that happens without some sort of coordination between them.
currently roughly reading rari & skytini as either v/v or w/w, and more likely v than w.
I suppose it's valid to wonder why, if he thought he had a cool fakeclaim idea, he didn't feed it to her privately rather than presenting it himself, but I don't think that's necessarily unusual; the two times I've been ingroup mafia here, I've been taken aback by how quiet scumchat is and how little coordination there is about what gets posted in-thread.
it’s interesting how all of your reads in this game were grounded around mafia having high coördination among them, but you seemed to change your mind as soon as i mentioned that w!blu providing tofu with a plausible fakeclaim didn’t make any sense

oh, this'll be good. always interesting to hear what people think my "meta" is.
if i’m not mistaken, your scumtell is being confident. it’s not like you’re not paranoid as wolf – you sure are –, but as town you tend to flail a lot and be very self-assured when it comes to your alignment. as soon as people put you low on their tierlists, i bet that you as town would at the very least question them. but you didn’t. then toDay, when i cast my vote on you without longposting, if you were town, i’d be damned if you wouldn’t go after me. but you all but pretended you weren’t being a candidate for lynching

in related news, i vibe with the standing counterwagon