Meowfia

[Butterfree]

I can't figure out what Flora was trying to say in #128 and how there being no n0 actions relates. If they actually meant n0 there, then I am very confused because it would make perfect sense for DarkAura to be voting RNP on d1 if she had investigated RNP as guilty n0, and Flora didn't remember who else DarkAura had voted so there doesn't seem to be any reason for them not to think that makes sense. It seems like they meant that DarkAura wouldn't have checked RNP n1 because the best move is to check someone you're really unsure about.

As far as I can tell, Flora's logic there was: DarkAura voted for RNP on D1, but also for other people. If DarkAura knew that RNP was town - well, why would she vote for him at any stage? Conversely, if she knew he was mafia - why would she have voted for other people first?

 

[Eifie]

Hm. HM. I think...I might also go for ILS? it’s a really hard pick b/w him and RNP but...I honestly can’t really see anyone teamed with RNP, at least not atm

alarm bells sounding at this

 

[Eifie]

Hm. HM. I think...I might also go for ILS? it’s a really hard pick b/w him and RNP but...I honestly can’t really see anyone teamed with RNP, at least not atm

Can you go into more detail for me about each person and why you think they're not teamed with RNP?

 

[Butterfree]

Like, I guess it doesn't 100% rule out Flora being a goon in a very poorly communicating mafia. But literally no communication since the start of the game? Surely if Flora thought there were supposed to be night actions on N0 they'd have made some sort of attempt to decide on what that night action should be? It can't be that Flora missed the beginning of the game entirely, because D1 didn't start until everyone'd confirmed they received their role PM, and if you receive a role PM saying you're mafia, surely you don't just shrug and make no attempt to communicate and then still not notice anything off when you do return to the game? Like, if you think D1 started without any discussion of your nightkill happening, surely you'd be confused and ask your partner if they submitted one, or Keldeo if they didn't answer? I just. Have a really hard time seeing how Flora could possibly manage to genuinely remain unaware of no N0 actions well into D1 if they were mafia. Maybe they faked their confusion, but it really didn't read that way, especially when they didn't get why we were confused until several posts later.

 

[M&F]

nopenopenope no quickhammering RedneckPhoenix

 

[Flora]

As far as I can tell, Flora's logic there was: DarkAura voted for RNP on D1, but also for other people. If DarkAura knew that RNP was town - well, why would she vote for him at any stage? Conversely, if she knew he was mafia - why would she have voted for other people first?

Yep, that’s it! The entire point became moot as soon as I remembered that we didn’t have actions n1, so. RIP me I guess.

Apologies in general for the rather scattered commentary, my brain’s been fairly uncooperative this week and forum mafia is hell on mobile.

 

[Eifie]

Like, I guess it doesn't 100% rule out Flora being a goon in a very poorly communicating mafia. But literally no communication since the start of the game? Surely if Flora thought there were supposed to be night actions on N0 they'd have made some sort of attempt to decide on what that night action should be? It can't be that Flora missed the beginning of the game entirely, because D1 didn't start until everyone'd confirmed they received their role PM, and if you receive a role PM saying you're mafia, surely you don't just shrug and make no attempt to communicate and then still not notice anything off when you do return to the game? Like, if you think D1 started without any discussion of your nightkill happening, surely you'd be confused and ask your partner if they submitted one, or Keldeo if they didn't answer? I just. Have a really hard time seeing how Flora could possibly manage to genuinely remain unaware of no N0 actions well into D1 if they were mafia. Maybe they faked their confusion, but it really didn't read that way, especially when they didn't get why we were confused until several posts later.

It's bizarre to me too but if I go with every conclusion I made in #132 along with the RNP vote by ILS on d1 then that leaves, well, literally no mafia. So I was wrong about something and need to decide which thing I am most likely to be wrong about. In my view the weakest points I've considered are the Flora derpclear and the RNP vote by ILS. That opens up the possibilities of RNP/Flora and RNP/ILS. (I am possibly confbiasing because I really think RNP is scum.)

One reason why I think the Flora derpclear is one of the weakest points is that I've been mafia with Flora before (several years ago, and I no longer have the PMs so my memory is really fuzzy), and they basically did not talk to the rest of us until like d2.

 

[Flora]

Can you go into more detail for me about each person and why you think they're not teamed with RNP?

Honestly? It’s more about RNP’s overall behavior and less about the others, if that makes sense? The over-the-top defensiveness makes a bit more sense for someone who’s town rather than a maf member. (Plus the commentary about M&F’s we-are-done-poking-inactives before ILS posted kinda helped in that regard.)

 

[Eifie]

Honestly? It’s more about RNP’s overall behavior and less about the others, if that makes sense? The over-the-top defensiveness makes a bit more sense for someone who’s town rather than a maf member. (Plus the commentary about M&F’s we-are-done-poking-inactives before ILS posted kinda helped in that regard.)

The part I'm asking about is that you said "I honestly can’t really see anyone teamed with RNP, at least not atm". Could you expand on that?

 

[Butterfree]

I just... don't agree with your assessment of #29. I think wolves tend to be hyper-aware of their partners existing and what their partners have done to possibly make themselves look bad, so I cannot imagine MF forgetting about ILS if they were partners, regardless of whether the remark was off-hand or not. I also do not consider that post at all emotionally-charged. It just seems like a typical transitioning-out-of-RVS post to me.

Thing is, I don't think that post necessarily indicates MF forgot about ILS at all. Again, it says now that we're largely done with poking inactives, not now that there are no more inactives. #42 sort of plays it as if it were the latter, but it wasn't really. Do you see what I mean?

What do you think about what I'm seeing as synergy between the two of them?

 

[Butterfree]

Honestly? It’s more about RNP’s overall behavior and less about the others, if that makes sense? The over-the-top defensiveness makes a bit more sense for someone who’s town rather than a maf member. (Plus the commentary about M&F’s we-are-done-poking-inactives before ILS posted kinda helped in that regard.)

Why the weird flip-flop? You specifically argued earlier that you couldn't see anyone being paired with RNP.

 

[I liek Squirtles]

What do you think about Flora right now?

At first, I really didn't think much about them. Then, they posted their vote for me and that really made me much, much more suspicious of them. It's very similar to RNP's unprompted vote against me.

I'm a bit confused regarding their reasoning regarding voting for me. Simply because it's hard to figure out who is teamed with RNP at the moment doesn't mean he's not mafia. All in all, I'm a bit lost as to why it's important to figure out who RNP was teamed with if he's coming off so scummy.

I'm frankly alarmed no one else hasn't taken Eifie's points against FNP more seriously, given that he's kind of just shooting at random and seeing what sticks.

And finally, this is a bit tenuous, but it could help support the theory of a Flora/RNP, but in #138 RNP kind of distances away from Flora by mentioning he is vaguely suspicious of them. The sudden bandwagon for me is also an indicator of a possible team-up.

 

[Eifie]

Thing is, I don't think that post necessarily indicates MF forgot about ILS at all. Again, it says now that we're largely done with poking inactives, not now that there are no more inactives. #42 sort of plays it as if it were the latter, but it wasn't really. Do you see what I mean?

What do you think about what I'm seeing as synergy between the two of them?

... Fuck. You might have a point. Let me think about this for a bit.

 

[Eifie]

ILS and DarkAura have not yet acknowledged receiving their daily cat fact. Booo.

Vote: DarkAura

Come play!

Rereading the thread, found this post I made where I called out the two 0-posters. This was #20.

MF posts in #29 that we're "largely" done poking inactives. The first time I read this I was like "uh, ILS tho? guess she forgot?" and that impression has stuck with me ever since. In hindsight I don't know what the "largely" part meant to me.

RNP mentions ILS again in #39.

MF replies in #42 implying that she'd forgotten about ILS. Given that she said "largely" before, does this make sense? Possibly not?

It does seem very possible that this was meant to make us think not w/w after all, and I fell for it...

[x-files theme plays]

 

[Butterfree]

One reason why I think the Flora derpclear is one of the weakest points is that I've been mafia with Flora before (several years ago, and I no longer have the PMs so my memory is really fuzzy), and they basically did not talk to the rest of us until like d2.

Huh. Okay, given this I get better why you're wary of clearing Flora entirely.

That being said, I'm assuming the rest of you were, in fact, communicating and submitting actions, and that Flora got those PMs too? Which makes more sense to me - Flora might read the PMs, not feel like they've got anything to contribute, and just let you go with whatever you decide - or maybe even disappear for the night and have to catch up on the PMs later. But Flora'd presumably still be aware of the night actions that you took by the time they returned to post in the thread. So I don't think it's quite the same thing.

I do admit Flora's acting kind of weird and shifty right now, though, and RNP absolutely has been acting super scummy. Maybe it could be them? I just have a really hard time getting over the Flora thing, and every other combination with RNP doesn't quite seem to make sense to me given previous interactions. Meanwhile MF and ILS have been really in sync, and continue to be so today.

 

[Eifie]

MF votes me in #29. I vote her back in #45. Votes are 2-1 MF-me at this point because DarkAura voted MF earlier.

Butterfree posts in #46 saying she's leaning towards me, but doesn't vote yet.

RNP votes MF in #51. It's now 3-1. ILS votes MF in #55, making it 4-1. It is possible that ILS could have thought he needed to bus here because the thread was largely (lol) against MF.

MF switches to RNP in #57 — before Butterfree gets around to voting me in #62 and before DarkAura unvotes her in #65.

I vote myself in #76 to force a tie. The votes are 2-2-1 MF-me-RNP.

ILS switches to RNP in #80, making it 1-2-2 MF-me-RNP.

I can see the possibility for sure.

 

[Eifie]

Huh. Okay, given this I get better why you're wary of clearing Flora entirely.

That being said, I'm assuming the rest of you were, in fact, communicating and submitting actions, and that Flora got those PMs too? Which makes more sense to me - Flora might read the PMs, not feel like they've got anything to contribute, and just let you go with whatever you decide - or maybe even disappear for the night and have to catch up on the PMs later. But Flora'd presumably still be aware of the night actions that you took by the time they returned to post in the thread. So I don't think it's quite the same thing.

I do admit Flora's acting kind of weird and shifty right now, though, and RNP absolutely has been acting super scummy. Maybe it could be them? I just have a really hard time getting over the Flora thing, and every other combination with RNP doesn't quite seem to make sense to me given previous interactions. Meanwhile MF and ILS have been really in sync, and continue to be so today.

Yes. I'm pretty sure I asked Flora for their opinion in the early PMs (but I can't remember for sure), though. But you're right, it's not the same thing. So I don't know what to think right now...

 

[Eifie]

It's- what? You just pointed out the reason that would be stupid for me to do. The mafia, expecting me to be a bad player (because I sort of am) would kill my main accuser and a very proactive player, to kill two birds with one scone, making me suspicious and taking the heat off themselves.

I don't like how you're voting right off the bat before discussion can even start. You're falling right into the mafia's trap like that.

I don't want to read a huge amount into the nightkill because it's just a crapshoot what level of WIFOM the mafia were operating on, but it did make me look at your exchange with DarkAura again.

Me voting doesn't mean that this is my final decision for the day and I just plan to do nothing for the rest of it. It's just where I would like to put pressure right now.

What pings me a lot about your response here is that you said you don't like something I'm doing, in a way that you would do if you were going to express suspicion of me (which would be quite reasonable here)... but then you say I'm "falling right into the mafia's trap", i.e., apparently I'm not one of them in your mind. Kind of seems like TMI? Someone else chime in on this, please.

Butterfree, what do you think of this?

We're (basically) in MyLo right now. If RNP is town, he's the easiest mislynch for the mafia to push based on d1 events and he should know this. I go gunning for RNP right out of the gate. Does it make sense for town!RNP to not even consider the possibility that I could be scum here?

 

[M&F]

Well, if the two of you have two scumteams that you heavily suspect, might I convince you all to get on the abstain train, albeit maybe after we get a time extension so as to avoid an accidental quickhammer?

There's only 2 possible deaths that wouldn't be any help narrowing things down -- and the doctor would be covering at least one of them (even if the doctor happens to be the other), which puts the mafia in a pretty awkward position: out themselves for a safe kill, or take 50-50 that they'll get doc blocked.

 

[M&F]

Butterfree, what do you think of this?

We're (basically) in MyLo right now. If RNP is town, he's the easiest mislynch for the mafia to push based on d1 events and he should know this. I go gunning for RNP right out of the gate. Does it make sense for town!RNP to not even consider the possibility that I could be scum here?

As hardcore scummy as RedneckPhoenix has been so far, it probably actually does; we did end the last day's discussion on a note that most players would take as making it extremely unlikely that you're scum. (I wouldn't go that far, fwiw, I'd just consider it regular unlikely.)