Moral Relativism

[shy ♡]

Hm. I agree that moral relativism exists, in that morals are relative - to a point, really - but, I don't agree that they should be. Meaning, there are things that should never be relative, and I think the world we live in, meaning our society, curves around that.

For example, if we live according to moral relativism, we must accept that rape is not absolutely bad. Murder is not absolutely bad. Would it not be better to say, no, these things are absolutely bad? And I don't mean according to a religion. I mean from a societal standpoint, because these things are, you know, bad.

Basically, we sort of concluded, as humans, what badness is, what the ultimate bad things are, because these acts prove to be the worst for society. They impact us. And... I don't think there exists a society where rape and murder don't impact the society negatively. So even where morals are relative? These things still have negative impacts and are bad.

KEEP IN MIND that I used to be a moral relativist so I know quite well what it means! Okay.

 

[leo33wii]

1: Um, no, I don't, because not murdering people would make you a better human being.

2: And you would be looked upon favorably by your community more if you weren't a murderer, even if you won't die ultimately, being a murdered would probably drive your family and friends away from you, and the life of a loner is a sad one. So its more about personal relationships here than ultimate fate, because ultimate eternal fate is not a whip-cracking simplistic reward-punishment system that is common in the strawman.

Now, to show a defense of Christianity, in 2:, substitute 'murderer' with 'sinner' and see how much sense that makes.

Now, to show a critique of Christianity, in 2:, substitute 'murderer' with 'gay person' and prepare to be sad.

uhm... in christianity all sins a equal in the eye of god (who ever this guy may be). murder, rape, white lies, theft are all equal sins.

what would stop a man from murdering a woman after raping her when, according to the bible, both sins are equal?

Also after being "saved" what would prevent you from continuing to sin, your soul has already been "saved?" Being saved is what happens to your soul, not how one should act. So if your "soul" is "saved" why stop sinning?

the whole every sin is equal is suppose to protect those who are different/outsiders of christianity... except that we have "nationalist" who claim they are morally superior when they are obviously contradicting themselves with this belief that all sins are equal.

 

[Eloi]

uhm... in christianity all sins a equal in the eye of god (who ever this guy may be). murder, rape, white lies, theft are all equal sins.

No! They! Are! Not!

Everyone is equally sinners, but sins themselves are not equal! This is why different animals, of varying sizes, get sacrificed according to what sin is committed, and why there is not one universal punishment in the law, because sins have a clear hierarchy.

what would stop a man from murdering a woman after raping her when, according to the bible, both sins are equal?

Would a person in the situation give a shit whether the Bible said anything about what they were doing at that point?

Also after being "saved" what would prevent you from continuing to sin, your soul has already been "saved?" Being saved is what happens to your soul, not how one should act. So if your "soul" is "saved" why stop sinning?

Because God wants you to not sin, and your soul was saved by this being, ergo, you should try to respect their wishes.

the whole every sin is equal is suppose to protect those who are different/outsiders of christianity... except that we have "nationalist" who claim they are morally superior when they are obviously contradicting themselves with this belief that all sins are equal.

But not all sins are equal, and quit creating strawmen.

 

[leo33wii]

No! They! Are! Not!

^^^stating that sins are not equal.

however i do believe the bible/god states otherwise:


James 2:10
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
NIV

Romans 3:23-24
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
NIV

1 John 3:4-5
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
NIV

 

[Zero Moment]

^^^stating that sins are not equal.

however i do believe the bible/god states otherwise:


James 2:10
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
NIV

Romans 3:23-24
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
NIV

1 John 3:4-5
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
NIV

Where does it state that all sins are equal?
All I see is the Bible comparing sinning and breaking the law.

 

[Phantom]

Ok Leo,

According to my nice handy Catechism of the Catholic Church....

Brief definition of sin-

1871 Sin is an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law (St. Augustine, Faust 22:PL 42, 418). It is an offense against God. It rises up against God in a disobedience contrary to the obedience of Christ.

There are varying levels of sin. Mortal, venial, and original.


Definition of 'sin'

1854 Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. The distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture,129 became part of the tradition of the Church. It is corroborated by human experience.

There are two basic types of sin, mortal and venial.

Mortal:

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God's forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ's kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

For short a mortal sin must be deliberate and is must be forgiven via Reconciliation or you will not be able to get into heaven and will be sentenced to eternity in hell.

Mortal sins are basically the worst of the worst, ie murder.

Venial:

1863 Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul's progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin. However venial sin does not break the covenant with God. With God's grace it is humanly reparable. "Venial sin does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness."134

1875 Venial sin constitutes a moral disorder that is reparable by charity, which it allows to subsist in us.

I've also heard of it being called "petty sin". These are lower sins. They are forgivable and basically don't "tarnish" your soul as much as a deliberate sin would.

Now original sin is interesting, and is mentioned much earlier on.

416 By his sin Adam, as the first man, lost the original holiness and justice he had received from God, not only for himself but for all human beings.

417 Adam and Eve transmitted to their descendants human nature wounded by their own first sin and hence deprived of original holiness and justice; this deprivation is called "original sin".

Because of the "original sin" that happened during the events of the Fall of Man all mankind is guilty by birth and are born sinners.

1864 "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."136 There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit.137 Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.

Doesn't matter anyways cause you can just be forgiven if they repent for those mass murders last week.


And no, I'm not picking out select phrases, the Catechism doesn't work like that, it's literally a list, and I typed all these out as I read them. (I kept my copy from high school)

Conclusion, according to the RCC not all sin is equal, but all sin can be equally forgiven.

 

[Saith]

James 2:10
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
NIV

Well, it's kind of true. If you break the law, whatever law it is, you are still breaking the law. As in, committing murder and shoplifting are both against specific laws, and yet both break the law.
I'm sure you'll agree that, though they're both crimes, they're not equal in severity.
The same goes with sinning. Two sins may not be equal, but both break God's law. What the guy is saying is that, hey, God don't like it when you sin, y'all!

Romans 3:23-24
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
NIV

Well yeah. Catholics believe in Original Sin, so in their eyes, everybody has sinned.

1 John 3:4-5
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
NIV

He's saying that sins are tied to crimes. In fact, most Catholic scholars believe that the word 'sin' is interchangeable with 'chaos'. Something is sinful if it puts the individual above the collective, and in the end, that's what a crime is, too.