On Recent Actions Involving the Spriting Board(s)

[Eevee]

fishin for some trollans


You know.

I can srspost all day. I can go into exquisite detail about why X tool is better, or why Y ethical stance is better, or why Z way of acting is better. I think about all my decisions and I can write half-decently enough to express why I make them and when others should make the same.

The problem that arises is that most people do not care. Many people don't even recognize the voice of experience, let alone consider listening to it. So post after well-thought-out post falls on deaf ears, and a lot of time is wasted. Why bother, then? I gain more respect and attention by just yelling at people. Maybe they don't listen to me, but negative attention is still better than being dismissed as irrelevant. It's not just here, either; I've come to regret taking the time to write very good replies all over the blogotubes.

I'm not trying to defend being an arrogant dick. I enjoy verbal combat, I enjoy others celebrating that I am okay at being an ass, I enjoy being right. But there's no inclination to do otherwise. Nobody would listen to me besides the half-dozen or so who already trust that I don't say things I'm not sure about. I'm good enough at skirting being banned, and if I were, oh well; fewer things to get annoyed about.

Above all, though, there is zero social reason to try to help new members because the population as a whole does not think new members need helping. The owner isn't around so much any more, either, to give any sort of cultural guidance. There are more clueless pre-teens than not and they all encourage each other in some terrible prepubescent circlejerk. They don't want to make quality threads; they just want to be entertained and don't understand why old memes are a bad thing. They don't want to learn to use real tools; they want to pat each other on the back for their mediocre cookie-cutter results and don't understand why they should strive to do far better. They don't want a deep and interesting debate; they want any answer for the unexplained, just to soothe the mental itch, and don't understand why that shouldn't be good enough. Hell, a lot of the forums themselves don't lend themselves to many threads besides surveys.

And there's not really any group inclination to push them.

So, yes, I give up and just snark at people. It's much faster and entertains a few other dicks. In that sense, it often accomplishes much more than a srspost would.

You want to fix the forums? Fix the culture. I would cheerfully srspost all the time if I didn't think it would get pissed all over by preteens who are more obnoxious than I but far less deserving of being so. I intended to do so if I ever got veekun's forums working worth a damn, with the assumption being that I could simply compensate for culture with moderation when necessary.

Also, putting up with it doesn't help. I'm a dick when I think I have a decent excuse, but I'm not a dick just to be a dick. I don't snark at anyone unless I genuinely think they have it coming. I'm not going to sic the veelluminati on you for calling me out when I cross the line.

 

[Retsu]

Above all, though, there is zero social reason to try to help new members because the population as a whole does not think new members need helping. The owner isn't around so much any more, either, to give any sort of cultural guidance. There are more clueless pre-teens than not and they all encourage each other in some terrible prepubescent circlejerk. They don't want to make quality threads; they just want to be entertained and don't understand why old memes are a bad thing.

Would your outlook change if all of this was remedied?

 

[Eevee]

I would cheerfully srspost all the time if...

 

[Retsu]

I suppose that makes sense. Sorry I don't have more to say; I'm quite torn between Negrek's point about the lack of civility and yours about its uselessness.

 

[Eevee]

Practical problems.

There is of course the obvious argument that I should just be civil anyway, but then why read threads at all when half of them are frustrating and giving real answers will just lead to more frustration?

 

[Retsu]

You mentioned in your post that fixing the culture itself would solve a lot of problems. Is there any practical way to go about doing this?

 

[Eevee]

I don't know. You'd need enough people who care enough to try to gain influence and spread a focus on quality. That's hard to do, and there are a whoooole lot of people we've perhaps never even seen who post plenty but keep it to some specific forum.

 

[Zeph]

Re: Not to be rude, but...

I took the JPEGness away from them- ah, just forget it.

And I think ZC abandoned his adoptables. Pikachu hasn't gained anymore cracks, and my Oddidh egg still wont crack!

No I didn't. I just haven't sprited for a while. When I feel like it, I'll update the adoptables.

And I agree 100% with Negrek.

Oh, and congratulations Furret/Retsu.

 

[Arylett Charnoa]

Negrek said it all. So marvelously, so greatly, so perfectly summed up. In a way that I never could.

I'm going to be truthful. This is a forum with many snarky mean people who encourage others to do the same. I do not like this. I'm even afraid to post this, for fear that I get mocked or worse - snarked at so bad that I'll sigh and wonder why the hell I posted this, wonder why the hell I even bothered and feel basically rendered to a useless pile of jelly who can't do anything coherantly. But I feel I need to say this. Even if my opinion is stupid or unimportant because I'm just some stupid little teeny member who doesn't mean anything. Even if I don't fit in anywhere with the cool people.

Don't you think that quality would increase if you were just /nicer/ to people? Nobody likes to be insulted. And as Negrek said, they are least receptive to insults. When I'm insulted, do I want to listen to anything the person says? No. They just seem like a stupid jerk and I block out all of their jerky words. Because they attacked my person, my intelligence, meaning that their entire opinion is rendered a load of crap in my eyes, because me being stupid is a load of crap. Nobody wants to believe that they're stupid and they don't believe much of what you say either when you are condescending towards them, most likely. And that's really what's happening. When people feel attacked, they go into the "This person is bad and I'm the victim here." mode. And when they feel like that, they don't want to listen to the bad villanous person, because they are evil because they insulted them and evil people can only say lies.

You can attract more flies with honey than vinegar. Being nicer would probably make people more receptive to what you have to say. They'll be like: "Ooooh, this person is nice. Perhaps they have something worth saying." And of course, there will always be the person who never learns. But a lot of people do learn, if explained to carefully and properly. And most of all, nicely. I listen to nice people. And I block out mean ones. Most people probably do the same.

This forum is so uptight. Sometimes I feel as if I can't even breathe, I can't post somewhere and rest without the fear of one of the cool people ripping apart my post bit by bit and explaining just exactly how stupid I am for even bothering to try to contribute something to the discussion. I thought we were here to have fun. Here for amusement. Isn't that what forums are for? For people to enjoy themselves? And yet my enjoyment declines.

Nobody's going to listen to me. To my post probably. I'll probably just be ignored. Either that or I'll just get snarked at and told that I'm stupid for even bothering to put out my opinion, with my post being torn to absolute shreds, it being explained carefully how stupid I really am, carefully so I can understand, because my stupid mind needs to be insulted in order for me to understand how utterly wrong I am. I'm not cool enough to have this opinion. Because that's what always happens when Insignificant Member 117 posts. And that's okay, because I've really become sick of all this. And I'm tired of keeping my mouth shut. I needed to say this.

 

[Seritinajii]

I love Negrek's and Arylett's posts, which make a lot of sense. I agree a lot.

But this isn't about the spriting board anymore, so why don't we just close it?

 

[ultraviolet]

No, I don't think we should close this thread. More people need to read Arylett's and Negrek's posts, which raise too many good points about the forum.

not really. dragon cave wasn't the first to make adoptables, so they weren't original, just of good quality. there have been adoptables for a long time.

I know. The point is that the Cave's sprites did well because they were original and they looked cool. The ones on these boards aren't, and most of the time they don't get updated/hatched anyway. No one is putting effort into these things; they're doing it so people flock to their threads and they gain popularity.

... you have the right to your opinion. that's not the same as stupid insults.

Uh, what? I said adoptables are stupid. I guess you could go as far to say that I insulted the adoptables, but I hardly think the static pixels are really going to mind.

 

[Retsu]

But this isn't about the spriting board anymore, so why don't we just close it?

As long as people are doing it constructively, I see no reason to block further discussion.

 

[Music Dragon]

Well, guys. The stuff that Negrek and Arylett have pointed out - isn't that totally old news?

I mean, come on. Who here has not noticed what utter jerks people have become? I won't bother to provide you with an example, because seriously, you've seen it yourself.

Okay, so I do it myself a lot. I guess it rubs off. Sometimes I think about it and hate myself for it, because I detest hypocrisy - which is hypocritical of me, since I am a hypocrite myself (and the reason that I am a hypocrite is that I detest hypocrisy, which is hypocritical because I am a hypocrite, which I am because I detest hypocrisy, which...).

It's a pity, when you think about it... I mean, all of these "snarky, mean people" are actually wonderful, kind-at-heart individuals. And of course I can understand why they act the way they do, why they get fed up with all the idiots we have around here. It is a right shame though...! All of the forum bigshots possess intelligence in abundance, but unfortunately some of them lack the wisdom to use it properly.

Still. What can I say? It's... Well, I don't know. I'm not as eloquent as Negrek, Eevee and Arylett, and I don't even have a point to get across...

I don't usually find myself being the butt of any spiteful comments, but that day will come soon enough...! I may be a forum regular, but as it happens, I am not part of any cliques; there are no real relations between me and the big, important members. I am not insured, so to speak.

I guess I wish people would change their ways, but it's not really something I think about very much. I'm not requesting that anyone change their behaviour to suit my ideals. But it would be great if you - yes, you - took the time to think about what you're saying before you post - not only on an intellectual level, but an emotional...

 

[spaekle]

Both Negrek and Arylett bring up some awesome points. I agree wholeheartedly with both of them. :]

I feel like I have something to say on this subject, but I'm not sure how well I can get it out. So, I apologize if this post turns out to be one huge ramble with no real point. I'm sorry if all of this is old news, or if I'm just stating the obvious. I am kind of in a hurry. :[

This place is semi-known, I guess, for being a place full of dicks and teenage angst drama. Yeah, I've heard people talking about it on other forums. Most of the time this 'drama' comes from either people whining about how many stupid members there are, or people whining about how mean everyone else is. First of all, if you're wanting 'quality members' and not 'stupid preteens', the Pokemon fandom is not the place to be looking. I'm sorry, but it's true. This place really is the best sizeable Pokemon forum I've ever seen member-wise. Go spend a week or two at Pokecommunity or Serebii and then try and tell me that this place is full of idiots.

The seeming inability of some people to express an opinion that conflicts with someone else's without being an ass about it annoys me, too. You don't have to type an essay about why you disagree, but you don't have to make a post with little purpose other than berating the member, either. I understand that some people are stubborn, and a lot of those people are going to be stubborn whether you're nice or mean to them - but is it better to make a huge scene just to prove that YOU ARE RIGHT and THEY ARE WRONG?

Do I think this place is really going to improve just because of this thread? No, not really. I guess it can be argued that I'm just wasting my time, but I really do agree with Negrek and Arylett. And, I mean, I've said/done some things that were probably rude just because I felt like I could get away with saying/doing them, since, after all, "everyone else is doing it." Maybe I was in a bad mood or it seemed funny at the time. Maybe that's what it is a lot of the time, with a lot of people. But I'm not really proud of it.

I really do like this forum - I respect people here for being intelligent, and there are a hell of a lot of nice people. I'm sure that the people who act this way are nice people too, like MD said. But I do wish things like this would stop happening. I mean, come on. :\

 

[Altmer]

I agree with Eevee on this one.

 

[opaltiger]

You can attract more flies with honey than vinegar.

while I agree with your post, and Negrek's, and vee's this was way way way too good to pass up

I think a large part of the problem is that some members are afraid to post beyond certain basic things because they think they will be torn into. Not quite the image you want to get across, obviously, but the only way to fix that is to not tear into those people who do post 'out of line'.

Furret, to answer your question: in my opinion the first step is to give everyone a chance. If someone says or does something stupid, correct them politely; if they continue doing the same thing, well, then you are perfectly justified in your annoyance. Snapping right off the bat, though, just makes it seem like you're being mean for the sake of it.

There definitely is a hierarchy, sure. Some people have been here longer, are more 'seen', logically there opinions would be valued more highly, and yes, logically they would get away with certain things. This is because, even if they do toe the line upon occasion, over all they have proven themselves to be intelligent. Leading back into my first point, the problem is that newer members aren't been given a chance.

So, in short, what I'm trying to say here is, be nice! For a while. If being nice doesn't seem to be getting you anywhere, you are very much justified to get pissed off.

 

[Ruby]

About Negrek's ideas' becoming actions, in the first place why not create a rule against minimodding, and then lengthen and enforce Rule #14.

 

[Capitain Jay]

I'm gonna be a fencesitter in this post. This forum. Certain members are being dicks to newbies. That happens elsewhere, of course. But that doesn't mean that we have to join in. We can be supportive. We have shown that ability. We don't use it that much. Hell, I don't use it that much. That's how much of an unforgiving place the internet has become. Being nice has become rare. However, if everyone on this forum was nice to each other for one day, good would come from it. It'd show those who are usually the whipping boys of our assholiness that we can make them feel welcome.

On the other side of the coin, as it were, I'm surprised the aforementioned whipping boys are still here. We're dicks, guys. If you don't like it, get out. That's the message we're delivering. And why not keep on transmitting it? The world would be better without idiots. Let's discourage them; stop them from getting anywhere in life. And for the rest of the members; let's impose our tastes upon them. Palin is retarded. Obama rocks. The metal genre is the best. Linkin Park and Sum 41 suck balls. Our opinion is right, yours is wrong.

I have to admit, I am guilty of doing the first half of that paragraph. I thought that being a dick would help someone. It didn't. Being nice influences people just as much as being dicks, if not more. In fact, I have an idea. A full day. Being nice non-stop. From midnight UTC+14 one day to midnight UTC-12 the next.

Ok, I lied. This wasn't a fencesitter post. It was leaning over to niceness. But it got my opinion across. That's all that matters. That you get your opinion across, and it isn't smashed down by everyone else with already-bloodied chainsaws and pitchforks.

Whatever.

From midnight UTC+14 30th September to midnight UTC-12 1st October, be nice.

 

[Tailsy]

I knew there was a reason I regularly put Forum Discussion on hide!

You're all typing too much. tl;dr makes me sleep, so.

IN A NUTSHELL:
we don't like that people are mean but instead of just ignoring stupid wankers who have nothing better to do than insult people over the internet we're going to complain about it and reiterate what someone else has already said!

People are going to be dicks. There's no way around the fact that people can be awful. But if you're just going to sit and be afraid to challenge them for being cockheads then what's the point? Stand up for yourself, bitches!

I CALL RIOT

I'M AT THE FRONT

HEY I'M THE ONE WITH THE FOGHORN PISS OFF

NOW YOU, PUT YOUR LAME DOWN AND YOUR HANDS UP

I'M GOING TO MOLEST YOU NOW

AND EAT YOUR ROLL ON PIE
NOM NOM NOM

 

[Altmer]

I think this forum just contains too many cases of pebkac.