Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

[Vipera Magnifica]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

I'll just leave this video here for your consideration.

 

[Zero Moment]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

I'll just leave this video here for your consideration.

Butterfree confirmed notnotnotnotnot mafafia.

 

[Autumn]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

I'll just leave this video here for your consideration.

much thank

 

[JackPK]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

Vote totals: 8 for Altissimo

As it turns out, an explicit message from a victim is more than enough to rally a lynch mob, and the Pokemon descend upon Voltorb. "Yeah, sure, why not?" Voltorb says. "It's not like I care to keep bothering to hide it. Yeah, you guys suck and I'm trying to kill you. Whatever." The members of the lynch mob fire their most powerful attacks, and Voltorb is no more.

But, as night falls, the Pokemon remember that the fallen evildoer still has allies left alive...

Altissimo is dead.
She was scum.

48 hours for night actions.

Just a heads up in advance: I'll be on vacation this Tuesday through Thursday, so I'll start up the day phase Monday night and it will run extra-long until Friday when I come back and can close it.

 

[JackPK]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

The Pokemon find their numbers continuing to dwindle as they wake up the next morning with Pikachu missing. A bit of poking around, and its badly bruised body turns up, but without a convenient clue like the one that accompanied Keldeo's body the day before.

Faorzia is dead.
She was innocent.

Let's call it at least ~84 hours for day phase discussion. You have until Friday afternoon.

 

[Vipera Magnifica]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

So where is The Discourse?

 

[M&F]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

So where is The Discourse?

I have a big fat post in the making but I've been ridiculously busy. The extended Day duration here is probably going to be godsend at this rate.

 

[Superbird]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

Well, there are six of us left, and two of us now are Mafia. I'm gonna go ahead and roleclaim.

The bird icon is Dodrio, the jack of all trades. So far, I've used my one-shot inspection on Music Dragon (who came up Not Mafia), and my roleblock on VM as an attempt to make sure that he wasn't Mafia either (and since there was still a kill last night, he at least isn't don, if that's the structure we're dealing with - if it's a free-for-all mafia then roleblocking one of many wouldn't have done any good, anyhow).

Currently I have left healing and killing, both one-shot, so now would be a good time for the Inspector to come out with any results they might have, if we still have one remaining. In the meantime, I know that at least one of MF, ZM, and Butterfree are Mafia. I'm going to start with Metallica Fanboy but hopefully we can shed some light here so this isn't an entirely random lynch.

 

[Music Dragon]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

Well, there are six of us left, and two of us now are Mafia. I'm gonna go ahead and roleclaim.

The bird icon is Dodrio, the jack of all trades. So far, I've used my one-shot inspection on Music Dragon (who came up Not Mafia), and my roleblock on VM as an attempt to make sure that he wasn't Mafia either (and since there was still a kill last night, he at least isn't don, if that's the structure we're dealing with - if it's a free-for-all mafia then roleblocking one of many wouldn't have done any good, anyhow).

Currently I have left healing and killing, both one-shot, so now would be a good time for the Inspector to come out with any results they might have, if we still have one remaining. In the meantime, I know that at least one of MF, ZM, and Butterfree are Mafia. I'm going to start with Metallica Fanboy but hopefully we can shed some light here so this isn't an entirely random lynch.

Huh. That's a pretty convincing roleclaim. Okay, I'm sold.

I feel like the Inspector is probably dead, or else there's no reason they wouldn't have come forward already. So that might be a problem. I mean, if there's six of us left and two are mafia, and suppose we accidentally lynch an innocent today, and then the mafia kills an innocent... that leaves two innocents and two mafia. So we can't afford to get this wrong.

Since you've just revealed that you have a kill and a heal left, I'm almost certain the mafia is gonna target you next. So you're probably only gonna have the chance to use one of your powers before you die. Assuming that you can't heal yourself and that the mafia will try to kill you, your heal will go to waste if you use it tonight. Therefore you're better off using your kill. If for some reason the mafia doesn't target you immediately, you can probably leverage that heal for a victory afterwards, so.

Now, statistically speaking, if we lynch one person and kill one person, there's a pretty good chance we'll be able to pick off at least one mafia member - especially if we can get some more input from the others. So I'd say that's our best bet right now. But let's wait and see what everybody else says, I guess.

 

[Superbird]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

If between a lynch today and a kill tonight, we kill at least one mafia member, then town can figure it out next day phase.

 

[M&F]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

Boooy howdy, let me tell you, university teachers need to stop doing that thing where they see a break coming up and decide that you need to get every goddamn thing done before then. At least the upshot is that now I'll have pleeeenty of time for this bullshit discourse.

Anyways, first of all, I'm Dreamer. Not Dreaming God -- Dreamer. The one who spontaneously gets info like "here's three people, at least one of them is scum" or "here's one person, that one's inno", as long as they're not being targeted in a given night. Unfortunately I've been popular enough to miss out on a couple nights, but here's what I scraped togehter:
-One of Zapi, Altissimo or Faorzia is mafia. Not useful now, I know. I was trying to piece something out of it, but eh, Keldeo did the honors and it's water under the bridge now. Not uncommon for this to happen to the earliest info you get.
-One of Keldeo, Butterfree or Superbird is mafia. This one's a little more interesting, but we'll talk more about that in a jiffy.
-Vipera Magnifica is clear. That was godsend, because his improptu roleclaim was kinda really bothering me.

That second one's been bugging me but so much, Superbird's been acting fairly suspect but Butterfree is all too noticeably less present than she usually is. I've seriously been entertaining the possibility that they're both scum and the RNG has tried to bamboozle me the Elite Four Choice Pokémafia way.

Superbird claiming now does rather little to assuage my concerns here. It's rather strange that Superbird would have blown his one-shot inspection on a perfectly innocuous target, and it's just the cherry on top of the suspect cake that said perfectly innocuous target popped up to back him up almost immediately. It's also rather awfully convenient that the two powers he supposedly has under his hat are one that we'd want to keep him alive for and the one that he would also happen to have if he were simply just a good old goon.

Oh, and let's not forget that his pretend randylynch on me just now was after I said I had information to share with the peanut gallery. It's like he wasn't looking forward to hearing it and was banking on me not making it, hmmm?

But hey, let's entertain the possibility that, despite so much play on the borders of suspect and lousy, Supes here is actually innocent. You know what? I actually want to find out if he is. We can still afford a mislynch right now, plus him flipping innocent would probably confirm Music Dragon and give us a confirmed scum to go after (ie, Butterfree).

So help me, all in all, I think my next dream is going to be the one where Superbird is dead.

 

[Vipera Magnifica]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

I don't get why you wouldn't want to lynch Butterfree first though. Out of Superbird and Butterfree, Butterfree seems a lot more likely to be mafia.

I have a pretty good feeling that Butterfree and Zero Moment are the mafia here, but let's hear what they have to say before starting the lynch train.

 

[M&F]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

I don't get why you wouldn't want to lynch Butterfree first though. Out of Superbird and Butterfree, Butterfree seems a lot more likely to be mafia.

I have a pretty good feeling that Butterfree and Zero Moment are the mafia here, but let's hear what they have to say before starting the lynch train.

Hm? How so? This might be sufficiently reasonable, but I'd like to hear a clear rationale.

And as for ZM... Well, I guess that, as ever, he's exactly as suspect as not, since regardless of alignment his Day game always consists primarily of hardcore radio silence.

 

[Superbird]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

Well I'm good for switching my vote to Butterfree, at least. I gave a vote mainly to make sure at least something happened today, and hey, we have a lot of information to go with now. Butterfree is certainly a better choice at this point.

 

[Zero Moment]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

I'm up, I'm up. Lots of claiming today, guess I might as well be next. I'm the Bodyguard. I protect a player, and either take the hit myself or rebuff it onto the attacker. I've been fairly active, but haven't been lucky enough to catch a predator.

I'll throw down my vote for Butterfree if she doesn't show up to defend herself. While we're waiting, though, it might be best for MD to claim, too. Even though he seems to be proven, we can organize our plan of action later on.

 

[Music Dragon]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

Not convinced by this at all.

Anyways, first of all, I'm Dreamer. Not Dreaming God -- Dreamer. The one who spontaneously gets info like "here's three people, at least one of them is scum" or "here's one person, that one's inno", as long as they're not being targeted in a given night. Unfortunately I've been popular enough to miss out on a couple nights, but here's what I scraped togehter:
-One of Zapi, Altissimo or Faorzia is mafia. Not useful now, I know. I was trying to piece something out of it, but eh, Keldeo did the honors and it's water under the bridge now. Not uncommon for this to happen to the earliest info you get.
-One of Keldeo, Butterfree or Superbird is mafia. This one's a little more interesting, but we'll talk more about that in a jiffy.
-Vipera Magnifica is clear. That was godsend, because his improptu roleclaim was kinda really bothering me.

That second one's been bugging me but so much, Superbird's been acting fairly suspect but Butterfree is all too noticeably less present than she usually is. I've seriously been entertaining the possibility that they're both scum and the RNG has tried to bamboozle me the Elite Four Choice Pokémafia way.

So what you're saying is that either Superbird or Butterfree are mafia. But I know with certainty that Butterfree is innocent, and I'm very inclined to believe Superbird, so that means you're making this stuff up. (See below.)

Superbird claiming now does rather little to assuage my concerns here. It's rather strange that Superbird would have blown his one-shot inspection on a perfectly innocuous target, and it's just the cherry on top of the suspect cake that said perfectly innocuous target popped up to back him up almost immediately. It's also rather awfully convenient that the two powers he supposedly has under his hat are one that we'd want to keep him alive for and the one that he would also happen to have if he were simply just a good old goon.

Oh, and let's not forget that his pretend randylynch on me just now was after I said I had information to share with the peanut gallery. It's like he wasn't looking forward to hearing it and was banking on me not making it, hmmm?

But hey, let's entertain the possibility that, despite so much play on the borders of suspect and lousy, Supes here is actually innocent. You know what? I actually want to find out if he is. We can still afford a mislynch right now, plus him flipping innocent would probably confirm Music Dragon and give us a confirmed scum to go after (ie, Butterfree).

So help me, all in all, I think my next dream is going to be the one where Superbird is dead.

I really feel like you're grasping at straws here trying to make Superbird look suspicious. There was nothing weird about his roleclaim; in fact, I found it more believable than yours, mainly because he actually specified what species he is and it makes flavor sense. I don't get the feeling he'd just make that up. There's also nothing strange about him using his inspection on an innocuous target, because there hasn't really been much discussion at all, so there haven't been any conspicuous targets until now.

And lastly, you suggest we lynch Superbird just to find out if he's telling the truth. But I think it would make a lot more sense to lynch you in that case. If you're telling the truth, your power is spectacularly useless in the endgame, or at the very least unreliable; but if Superbird is telling the truth, he's got two valuable one-shots available. And confirming your information (VM is innocent, Superbird or Butterfree are mafia) would be a lot more helpful than confirming Superbird's information (Music Dragon is innocent).

I'm up, I'm up. Lots of claiming today, guess I might as well be next. I'm the Bodyguard. I protect a player, and either take the hit myself or rebuff it onto the attacker. I've been fairly active, but haven't been lucky enough to catch a predator.

I'll throw down my vote for Butterfree if she doesn't show up to defend herself. While we're waiting, though, it might be best for MD to claim, too. Even though he seems to be proven, we can organize our plan of action later on.

Ugh... Okay, fine. I really didn't want to do this, but since everyone's jumped on the "lynch Butterfree" bandwagon, I guess I don't have much choice.

Butterfree and I are Lovers. That means if one of us dies, so too does the other. (We also have another role between the two of us, but I'm not gonna reveal that; we'll need some tricks up our sleeve to win this.) I wanted to avoid revealing this because it paints a huge red target on our backs; now the mafia can get two kills in one! So, that's pretty bad. But on the flip side, it also means I can say with certainty that Butterfree is innocent. What does that mean for us? Well...

If Superbird is telling the truth, then both he and Butterfree are innocent, in which case MF was lying earlier. So there are two possibilities: either Superbird is mafia, but for some reason still identified me as innocent; or MF is mafia. I'm gonna go with the latter.

I vote to lynch Metallica Fanboy. My guess is that he and VM are the remaining mafia members, since VM is the only person he's trying to protect (and VM's roleclaim was really weird). If we lynch MF and Superbird kills VM, that could very well be a win right there! However, on the off chance that I'm wrong, the mafia could win if they get the double kill. ZM, if you really are the Bodyguard, you should use your protection power on either me or Butterfree (but don't say which one of us you're targeting!) so that there's at least a 50% chance the mafia will fail to kill us.

 

[M&F]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

I really feel like you're grasping at straws here trying to make Superbird look suspicious. There was nothing weird about his roleclaim; in fact, I found it more believable than yours, mainly because he actually specified what species he is and it makes flavor sense.

If it's flavor you want, I'm Clefairy (being that I picked the icon that unambiguously looks like one) and my flavor involves using my moon powers, but I can't when someone targets me because Clefairy are shy and hide away from sight and all. It's hardly the coziest fit ever, but remember, the roles are assigned randomly and aren't beholden to making perfect beautiful sense. If anything, I'd be more suspicious of Superbird's claim fitting so much, when considering that his role might be the only one here that was chosen to fit the flavor, and not the reverse. (Plus, Jack seems to be consistently picking Pokémon who just really look like the icons, and Dodrio doesn't actually look that much like the bird icon, so that also kind of jumps out to me. I'll freely admit that this is all sort of baseless speculation that doesn't actually add to my suspicions meaningfully, but really, if you want to guess from flavor, there be more fertile pastures that a way.)

I don't get the feeling he'd just make that up. There's also nothing strange about him using his inspection on an innocuous target, because there hasn't really been much discussion at all, so there haven't been any conspicuous targets until now.

I dunno, he's kind of implied that he used the inspection first, and N1 at the latest. Too early to tell if discussion wasn't going to pick up any, and with too many people still alive for the odds to be any good.
(I got my info N0, N1 and N3, also. Forgot to point this out earlier).

And lastly, you suggest we lynch Superbird just to find out if he's telling the truth. But I think it would make a lot more sense to lynch you in that case. If you're telling the truth, your power is spectacularly useless in the endgame, or at the very least unreliable; but if Superbird is telling the truth, he's got two valuable one-shots available. And confirming your information (VM is innocent, Superbird or Butterfree are mafia) would be a lot more helpful than confirming Superbird's information (Music Dragon is innocent).

Normally, I'd actually agree with that, but for this particular instance, I begdiffer. See below.

Ugh... Okay, fine. I really didn't want to do this, but since everyone's jumped on the "lynch Butterfree" bandwagon, I guess I don't have much choice.

Butterfree and I are Lovers. That means if one of us dies, so too does the other. (We also have another role between the two of us, but I'm not gonna reveal that; we'll need some tricks up our sleeve to win this.) I wanted to avoid revealing this because it paints a huge red target on our backs; now the mafia can get two kills in one! So, that's pretty bad. But on the flip side, it also means I can say with certainty that Butterfree is innocent. What does that mean for us? Well...

If Superbird is telling the truth, then both he and Butterfree are innocent, in which case MF was lying earlier. So there are two possibilities: either Superbird is mafia, but for some reason still identified me as innocent; or MF is mafia. I'm gonna go with the latter.

... You'll have to clarify me on something: are you Lovers by design, or are you the sort where one starts out as Lover and makes someone else their Lover? I rather doubt it's the former, though, since you've just mentioned you have a power between the two of you. But the latter doesn't actually clear either of you. Remember, this modelet of Lover can easily end up in love with a mafioso. And since Jack didn't mention any third parties, this must mean this is also the modelet that is Town and can end up with a mafioso without changing their alignment.

So, we have three possible scenarios, here. If either of you is mafia, then that directly implicates one of Superbird or Butterfree, which is, oh, exactly what my power has already gathered. If you're both innocent, either I'm lying or Superbird is playing a deeper game than any of us thought, but from where I'm standing neither of those possibilities is very likely.

The thing is? All considering, lynching me to confirm my information is too risky. It won't directly implicate anyone, so the remaining mafiosi could very easily gambit their way to a fatal mislynch. Meanwhile, lynching Superbird will directly lead us to victory when we put all of this together. If he's mafia, besides all the potential implications, we'll have staved off the numerical litmus and we'll be able to use our collective powers to easily fish out the mafioso among us. If he's innocent, though, that'll straightforwardly spell out which of the remaining players are mafia, so we'll be able to pick them off readily. I realize that this plan banks on whether I'm telling the truth, but really, in mafia, what isn't potentially a big fat lie? Almost nothing can be proven. It checks out perfect from where I'm standing, so I'm sticking with it.

 

[Superbird]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

If anything, I'd be more suspicious of Superbird's claim fitting so much, when considering that his role might be the only one here that was chosen to fit the flavor, and not the reverse. (Plus, Jack seems to be consistently picking Pokémon who just really look like the icons, and Dodrio doesn't actually look that much like the bird icon, so that also kind of jumps out to me. I'll freely admit that this is all sort of baseless speculation that doesn't actually add to my suspicions meaningfully, but really, if you want to guess from flavor, there be more fertile pastures that a way.)

See, that's the thing. That oddness didn't escape me at the beginning of the game, so I asked about it and no one really followed up on it with anything useful so I just dropped the subject.

I haven't posted yet, so I should.

Does our specific pokémon identity affect our role? I know mine does, and the rest of you probably too. Which means Altissimo is voltorb/electrode? idk where that gets us though.

I dunno, he's kind of implied that he used the inspection first, and N1 at the latest. Too early to tell if discussion wasn't going to pick up any, and with too many people still alive for the odds to be any good.

I did inspection on night 1 and roleblocking on night 3 - I figured wasting inspection on night 0 without even a clue would be a bad idea, so on Night 1 I targeted the person who shook up discussion with ridiculous accusations on Day 1, who happened to be Music Dragon. And for what it's worth, MD is kind of a wildcard anyway (at least within my perception), so I had no problem with removing any uncertainty from that.

... You'll have to clarify me on something: are you Lovers by design, or are you the sort where one starts out as Lover and makes someone else their Lover? I rather doubt it's the former, though, since you've just mentioned you have a power between the two of you. But the latter doesn't actually clear either of you. Remember, this modelet of Lover can easily end up in love with a mafioso. And since Jack didn't mention any third parties, this must mean this is also the modelet that is Town and can end up with a mafioso without changing their alignment.

I'm interested in knowing this too.

Also going to retract my vote for the meantime just to make sure I don't mess anything up before everyone's spoken. With the plan being to submit a vote again towards the end of the day when I'm more sure of what's what.

 

[Music Dragon]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

If it's flavor you want, I'm Clefairy (being that I picked the icon that unambiguously looks like one) and my flavor involves using my moon powers, but I can't when someone targets me because Clefairy are shy and hide away from sight and all.

So you admit to being a member of the Moon Mafia, otherwise known as the Illuminati!?

... You'll have to clarify me on something: are you Lovers by design, or are you the sort where one starts out as Lover and makes someone else their Lover? I rather doubt it's the former, though, since you've just mentioned you have a power between the two of you. But the latter doesn't actually clear either of you. Remember, this modelet of Lover can easily end up in love with a mafioso. And since Jack didn't mention any third parties, this must mean this is also the modelet that is Town and can end up with a mafioso without changing their alignment.

I'm interested in knowing this too.

It's the kind where the Lover picks a partner. I have to admit the possibility of an innocent-mafia couple hadn't actually occurred to me (what with this being my first game and everything), so I suppose that makes my argument a bit less convincing. Still, the fact of the matter is that we're both innocent, even if I can't really prove it.

So, we have three possible scenarios, here. If either of you is mafia, then that directly implicates one of Superbird or Butterfree, which is, oh, exactly what my power has already gathered. If you're both innocent, either I'm lying or Superbird is playing a deeper game than any of us thought, but from where I'm standing neither of those possibilities is very likely.

The thing is? All considering, lynching me to confirm my information is too risky. It won't directly implicate anyone, so the remaining mafiosi could very easily gambit their way to a fatal mislynch. Meanwhile, lynching Superbird will directly lead us to victory when we put all of this together. If he's mafia, besides all the potential implications, we'll have staved off the numerical litmus and we'll be able to use our collective powers to easily fish out the mafioso among us. If he's innocent, though, that'll straightforwardly spell out which of the remaining players are mafia, so we'll be able to pick them off readily. I realize that this plan banks on whether I'm telling the truth, but really, in mafia, what isn't potentially a big fat lie? Almost nothing can be proven. It checks out perfect from where I'm standing, so I'm sticking with it.

How would lynching an innocent Superbird straightforwardly spell out anything? If he's innocent, killing him only confirms that I'm innocent. That's all the information we'd get from that. Lynching you, on the other hand, would give us useful information regardless of your alignment. If you're mafia, we could probably safely conclude that VM is also mafia. If you're innocent, then at least we know for sure that Superbird or Butterfree is mafia.

Also consider what's at stake if we mislynch. If Superbird is telling the truth, lynching him would cost us a kill and a heal, and if I'm telling the truth, killing either me or Butterfree would cost us two innocents rather than one. But if you're telling the truth, lynching you doesn't actually cost us any important powers.

So, in conclusion: lynching MF gives us the best risk/reward ratio.

 

[M&F]

Re: Retro Choice Pokémafia [Game Thread]

So you admit to being a member of the Moon Mafia, otherwise known as the Illuminati!?

No, I only serve the Mooners of the Moon Association, that regularly meets with the purpose of mooning the planet Earth. But thanks for lumping me in with that bunch just because I'm from the moon, you moonist.

It's the kind where the Lover picks a partner. I have to admit the possibility of an innocent-mafia couple hadn't actually occurred to me (what with this being my first game and everything), so I suppose that makes my argument a bit less convincing. Still, the fact of the matter is that we're both innocent, even if I can't really prove it.

If you can't really prove it, then it's no more useful to the choir than my own assertion of innocence is. Sounds like we're just going to be driving each other to a standstill unless the others have their own thoughts on the matter.

How would lynching an innocent Superbird straightforwardly spell out anything?

To put it simply: process of elimination.

Also consider what's at stake if we mislynch. If Superbird is telling the truth, lynching him would cost us a kill and a heal, and if I'm telling the truth, killing either me or Butterfree would cost us two innocents rather than one. But if you're telling the truth, lynching you doesn't actually cost us any important powers.

You and Butterfree are, indeed, to risky to lynch, which is why I'm not doing it. But Superbird? A kill and a heal are not going to be that useful to us at this juncture. VM can kill just fine if we need someone to, and the heal would be difficult to target properly while also potentially being the only thing standing between the mafia and an extremely favorable Day situation. Lynching Superbird will help us narrow down suspects so that our odds of not lynching mafia in the subsequent are, mathematically, 33% at the absolute worst case scenario (and the absolute worst case scenario wouldn't even be particularly likely, in itself). I'd take those odds over a complete crapshoot heal.