Suggestion Box

[Zhorken]

Can we raise not-very-effective damage to 0.7×? I'm adding type matchups to species pages and it would make all the multipliers line up nicely:

And it only makes a difference for moves with exactly 100 or 130 power, or STAB moves with 100-150 power, which would only do 1% more not-very-effective damage this way.

 

[1. Luftballon]

while mechanically it's not very substantial, it ruins a nice bit of symmetry where SE and NVE invert each other, so that it makes sense that one type weak and one type strong is neutral. then again, the double-resistance is kind of off anyway, and multiple types don't multiply together ... but if they neither multiply together to 1 nor add together to 1, that's kind of odd, you know?

personally I'd rather have pretty math, leave resist at 2/3, bump double-resist to either 1/3 or 1/2 (1/2 sounds better).

 

[nastypass]

I like the Moon Stone being 1% fairy damage and 1% normal energy proposal, particularly given that Skitty is the only (pure) normal line to evolve with it now. (Jigglypuff, but it benefits from any adjustments.) Who said the stones need to have consistent effects anyway? It's not like this makes it outright better or worse than the others.

re: nve damage: making those numbers line up pleases my ocpd feels, so I'm all in favour of adjusting it.
edit: also needlessly playin who's that pokemon: larvesta or volcarona have those matchups

 

[allitersonance]

Moon stone is really a lot more like dawn/dusk/shiny stones than fire/water/thunder/leaf in not being associated with any one type (even prior to the pixilation of jigglypuff and clefairy, we had two poison, three normal, and one psychic evolving with it). If it's causing this much of an issue, it might be better to find some other special effect to assign to it rather than making it normal-aligned.

Otherwise I'd say keep it for normal-types and add possibly add moonlight/moonblast as an exception; if you're going to add the polkadot bow then that removes the mechanical need for a fairy-alignment on the moonstone.

 

[1. Luftballon]

it does make it worse, choice between two effects which don't interact with each other is generally worse than both effects at once.

it shouldn't be typed in the first place though.

 

[Zhorken]

We could make the Moon Stone parallel the Sun Stone, which heals 2% health and energy at the end of each round during Sunny Day. I'm not sure what conditions the Moon Stone would activate under, though.

If we do keep the Moon Stone to one type, I think it should at least be Fairy rather than Normal. I like the Fairy/Normal suggestion the most, though.

 

[MF the ISOable]

Please tell me I'm not the only one who sat there attempting to figure out what the type combination on that screenshot is. it's Bug/Fire, isn't it. Anyways, 2/3 damage is in fact a much more intelligible calculation, and in fact one that can often be easily done in your head in like one-two steps. I'd consider that a quite pretty thing.

Also, @Moon Stone business: if we're bringing up how it compares to other stones, now is as good as time as any to point out Sun Stone. ETA: You know what happens under the moonlight? Ninjas, that's what.

 

[Zhorken]

Oh god I can't multiply by 2/3 or 7/10 in my head, and 0.7 is easier to plug into a calculator. And yes, it's Volcarona.

 

[Mai]

We could make the Moon Stone parallel the Sun Stone, which heals 2% health and energy at the end of each round during Sunny Day. I'm not sure what conditions the Moon Stone would activate under, though.

If we do keep the Moon Stone to one type, I think it should at least be Fairy rather than Normal. I like the Fairy/Normal suggestion the most, though.

Normal for normalize skitty ;_;

I like normal-type with a moonlight/moonblast exception the best.

Also, @Moon Stone business: if we're bringing up how it compares to other stones, now is as good as time as any to point out Sun Stone. ETA: You know what happens under the moonlight? Ninjas, that's what.

... What would that do, then?

 

[surskitty]

What if the Moon Stone worked for Fairy moves and anything under Normalise? Specifically Normalise, so then you have a Fairy item and you're not making it hard on poor Skitty.

 

[Mai]

What if the Moon Stone worked for Fairy moves and anything under Normalise? Specifically Normalise, so then you have a Fairy item and you're not making it hard on poor Skitty.

That works for me.

 

[1. Luftballon]

that seems weirdly inconsistent.

given precedent that sunny day enhances moonlight, why don't we just have sun stone restore energy in the sun and moon stone restore hp, 2% each, in the sun or something?

 

[allitersonance]

wow how did I forget sun stone

Sun/moon stones do have a different association than the typed stones and the time-of-day stones (shiny stone isn't associated with anything else) so it'd be nice to make them have related effects in the same way.

It would be nice if it paralleled whatever you're doing to differentiate the moves moonlight and morning sun if possible. If you're making moonlight actually dependent on it being night then the moon stone can also benefit from the same conditions, to parallel the moonlight/morning sun thing. Night battles aren't common but that's something fully under the control of whoever is making the arena.

If they're both going to activate under sunny day, you can split the health/energy boost between stones, but also increase it so it's 3%/action or so?


also my feels are happier at the matchup calculations being mathematically pretty than merely lining up ;; can you, idk, put in fractions if they must be visually pretty

 

[Eifie]

Please tell me I'm not the only one who sat there attempting to figure out what the type combination on that screenshot is. it's Bug/Fire, isn't it.

KINDRED SPIRIT, YEAH, I GUESSED THE POKEMON RIGHT TOO, YEEEAH

(also, I think it would be prettier to write the things as fractions instead of incorrectly-rounded-off things. Also I demand symmetry in my arithmetic like res said. >:( )

 

[Mai]

It would be nice if it paralleled whatever you're doing to differentiate the moves moonlight and morning sun if possible. If you're making moonlight actually dependent on it being night then the moon stone can also benefit from the same conditions, to parallel the moonlight/morning sun thing. Night battles aren't common but that's something fully under the control of whoever is making the arena.

That sounds kind of strange. Having people tailor the arena to be specifically night/morning to use the sun stone or moon stone doesn't sound like a good idea; sure, the effect of it being actually day/night would be mild otherwise, but it's basically "write the arena so you can use your item," and items should be more general than that, I think. Plus, then it's harder to fit in when you're accepting a challenge/in a tournament battle or whatever.

EDIT: Also, since everyone's commenting on the math; I prefer decimals, but symmetry is most important part of it to me.

 

[MF the ISOable]

The ninjas? Oh, well, this would affect Greninja, Ninjask, Accelgor...

I was mostly pointing out that the Sun Stone's effects currently match the effects of no other stones, although I was also going to casually mention that it wouldn't be off the mark to give both stones a Sunny Day based effect. You know, all of that, before more ninjas showed up. (It's also as good a time as any to point out that in the original jp "Sunny Day" is something along the lines of "Clear Day", which doesn't preclude the possibility of it being night, thus explaining why Moonlight gets a boost from Sunny Day. Although it's never made that much sense that a clear night would power up Fire-type moves and trigger Chlorophyll and everything...)

Also, doing x2/3 or x7/10 is just as easy to do in your head as multiplying by the first one and then dividing by the second one. It's like, two basic operations?

 

[1. Luftballon]

Also, doing x2/3 or x7/10 is just as easy to do in your head as multiplying by the first one and then dividing by the second one. It's like, two basic operations?

personally, multiplying by 2 and dividing by 3 (and dividing by 10, actually) are a lot more optimized than for multiplying by 7.

symmetry though, mathematical symmetry is way prettier than things being aligned

 

[Zhorken]

9_6 Okay, well, if we all have such strong opinions on mathematical prettiness, here is why I think symmetry would actually be ugly here:

• You all apparently want those to multiply together, and all the other type matchup numbers not to, which is just grossly inconsistent. I mean, I don't see anyone arguing that double-SE should be 2.25×, or that double-NVE should be 4/9×.
• NVE isn't actually specified as 2/3; it's 0.67. If it's that important that NVE and SE be inverse, then I guess we have to stop rounding it, and either write 2/3 and 3/2, or 0.6̅ and 1.5 (and hope that everyone's browsers can render the combining overline correctly.)

 

[Eifie]

I want the other numbers to multiply together, too! idek what they are but make it so

 

[allitersonance]

The NVEs are both obviously meant to invoke 2/3 and 1/3 and were merely written 0.67 and 0.33 for convenience - when you look those decimals aren't thirds what you automatically think of? would it ever make a difference even in edge cases? - but 0.7 doesn't invoke that at all! And also I'd be 100% okay with double-resistance being 0.5x to match up double-effectiveness better.