Abortion

[surskitty]

Again, technically yes, regardless of the ethics involved. The clump of cells handles the fetus's life processes, ergo it is a body.

Was I necessarily speaking of fetuses? No. Brain activity doesn't start until the second trimester iirc; some other organ activity starts around that time as well. I don't even begin to consider it as a life until it can start doing something on its own besides have its cells divide.

 

[Crazy Weavile]

Why? Bacteria are alive, no?

 

[surskitty]

Yes, but you don't see anyone fighting for the rights of bacteria and trying to ban antibacterial soap.

 

[Dewgong]

because it's really not your body.

tell me what the baby's body is in

and does the baby have a mind to think for itself? no, so the mother should be able to decide, because the baby is in the mothers body, and mother is... i don't know the right word, but 'housing' the baby until the baby is born, so i think the mother should have say in whether it is born or not

if a child wants to go to a fair/carnival/something like that, who decides? the mother decides if the child goes or not because the child is not old enough to make decisions like that by himself/herself. same with the baby being born. the baby is definately not old enough to decide, so of course the mother would get the say

abortion is no easy matter on the mother's mind either. it would make me sad to have to do that, but sometimes it has/should be done

Clumps of cells count as bodies now?

I wouldn't say so.

 

[Crazy Weavile]

tell me what the baby's body is in

and does the baby have a mind to think for itself? no, so the mother should be able to decide, because the baby is in the mothers body, and mother is... i don't know the right word, but 'housing' the baby until the baby is born, so i think the mother should have say in whether it is born or not

if a child wants to go to a fair/carnival/something like that, who decides? the mother decides if the child goes or not because the child is not old enough to make decisions like that by himself/herself. same with the baby being born. the baby is definately not old enough to decide, so of course the mother would get the say

That's a rather poor analogy; by that logic, a mother should be allowed to shoot her child in the face, as it's not old enough to decide it doesn't want to be shot in the face. Obviously, that's certainly untrue, so clearly there's a fault in the analogy.

 

[Dewgong]

That's a rather poor analogy; by that logic, a mother should be allowed to shoot her child in the face, as it's not old enough to decide it doesn't want to be shot in the face. Obviously, that's certainly untrue, so clearly there's a fault in the analogy.

there's a fault in everything i do

well the mother really isn't allowed to shoot her child in face, that's what we have laws for

i was using an example of 'a child wants to go to the fair/carnival' not 'a child doesn't want to be shot in the face'

 

[Buizel]

Ok, in response to your adoption thing, the baby would probably rather take a second chance at life in the adoption center than not have a life at all, don't you think.

 

[hopeandjoy]

Way to read the thread, Buizel. Let me just find the post...

EDIT: Here it is! And as a woman, let me say that I wouldn't want to give my kid a living hell.

 

[Furretsu]

Ok, in response to your adoption thing, the baby would probably rather take a second chance at life in the adoption center than not have a life at all, don't you think.

No.

READ THE GODDAMN THREAD.

Edit: Ketsu beat me to it.

 

[Eevee]

Where is my post with the vampirism analogy? That pretty much shoots down everything in the last two pages.

 

[Buizel]

First of all, a baby is not a parasite. Obviously if mothers hated having a baby the population wouldn't be so large. And it is kind of the mother's fault if she was careless and got pregnant or raped, and if it wasn't her fault, well too negatives (rape and murder) don't make a positive. The baby is also well aware of its own existence. At 20 weeks the baby can feel pain and at 40 weeks the baby can process brain waves. The way abortions are done are gross, too. It usually involves poison or pulling the baby out and letting it die. Not a "quick and painless" death, huh?

 

[Furretsu]

First of all, a baby is not a parasite. Obviously if mothers hated having a baby the population wouldn't be so large. And it is kind of the mother's fault if she was careless and got pregnant or raped, and if it wasn't her fault, well too negatives (rape and murder) don't make a positive. The baby is also well aware of its own existence. At 20 weeks the baby can feel pain and at 40 weeks the baby can process brain waves. The way abortions are done are gross, too. It usually involves poison or pulling the baby out and letting it die. Not a "quick and painless" death, huh?

read

the

fucking

thread

 

[Eevee]

First of all, a baby is not a parasite.

Yes, it is, and merely insisting it's not does not make it so.

Obviously if mothers hated having a baby the population wouldn't be so large.

Who said that mothers generally hate having children?

And it is kind of the mother's fault if she was careless and got pregnant or raped

Ladies and gentlemen, according to this man, it is kind of the mother's fault if she was careless and got raped. Congratulations, you have discovered why I loathe pro-lifers. You apparently do not give a damn about human lives at all; parasitic clumps of tissue are more concern to you than a human being's right to life or freedom or safety or control of her own body.

What does it matter who you can blame? Sure, you can argue that getting pregnant is her "fault" if you cheerfully ignore mistakes or birth control failures or whathaveyou. And she can fix the problem she caused by getting an abortion if she so chooses. Tada.

and if it wasn't her fault, well too negatives (rape and murder) don't make a positive.

Don't call it murder if you want to be taken seriously at all.

This childhood idiom is a red herring. The point is not to do kindergarden ethics math; the point is to resolve a practical burden on the mother's life.

The baby is also well aware of its own existence. At 20 weeks the baby can feel pain and at 40 weeks the baby can process brain waves.

Reaction to pain does not at all imply self-awareness. Not that this is relevant at all.
And how convenient! At 40 weeks the baby is also born.

The way abortions are done are gross, too.

Argument from grossness is not a valid debate tactic.

 

[surskitty]

And it is kind of the mother's fault if she was careless and got raped

What the fuck? How the hell is it her fault if she got raped? HOW!?

 

[EvilCrazyMonkey]

First of all, a baby is not a parasite. Obviously if mothers hated having a baby the population wouldn't be so large. And it is kind of the mother's fault if she was careless and got pregnant or raped, and if it wasn't her fault, well too negatives (rape and murder) don't make a positive. The baby is also well aware of its own existence. At 20 weeks the baby can feel pain and at 40 weeks the baby can process brain waves. The way abortions are done are gross, too. It usually involves poison or pulling the baby out and letting it die. Not a "quick and painless" death, huh?

A baby is a parasite, no matter how the hell you want to look at it.

1. (biology) A (generally undesirable) living organism that exists by stealing the resources needed by another living organism. See flea, tick, mite.
2. (pejorative) A useless person who always relies on other people's work and gives nothing back.

My source
To me it sounds as if a baby would fit both definitions, and don't give me crap on how "it's life" can give back to you.

And what do you mean by "it was kind of the mother's fault if she was careless and got pregnant and raped." As stated before in this not-so-big-or-time-consuming-to-read thread, Condoms don't always work. Birth control pills aren't 100% successful either. A lot of people have crappy sex ed.
That's rather offending that you blame the victim sometimes for being raped. If it was the victim's fault, it likely wouldn't be rape. :/
To Wiktionary again...

1. (crime) The act of forcing sexual intercourse or other sexual activity upon another person, without their consent and/or against their will.

My Source
Attention to the "without their consent and/or against their will." Translation: not their fault. And being careless doesn't make them guilty. You'd be amazed at the lengths rapists go. And just because the rapist doesn't wear a condom or it doesn't work, then that still doesn't make the victim forced to bear a baby just to put it up for adoption.

edit:
so if the baby doesn't feel pain until 20 weeks, and it wouldn't be able to process it anyway until 40, then why the hell is it not painless before then?

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

And it is kind of the mother's fault if she was careless and got raped,

If she was raped, then so what?

OH YOU PRO-CHOICE PEOPLE YOU MURDEROUS MONSTERS
FOLLOW OUR EXAMPLE OF HUMANENESS LIKE RAPE BEING THE WOMAN'S FAULT


GO MAKE ME A FUCKIN SANDWICH WHILE I TEACH BILLY JOE BOB CARL DANNY FRANK TO SHOOT

 

[Alexi]

And it is kind of the mother's fault if she was careless and got raped

Sounds like a new quote for Eevee's sig.

 

[Dewgong]

it is kind of the mother's fault if she was careless and got pregnant or raped

Because the mother went out of her way to be raped by a man she didn't even know, all because she wanted to have an abortion.

if it wasn't her fault, well two negatives (rape and murder) don't make a positive.

...It's not murder. It's not taking a knife and stabbing the baby until it's dead!

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

To beat Vlad, read the thread, deary.

I am unbeatable because I am Vladimir. Putin's. Livejournal.

If a foetus is a person why do families say 'we have five children and one of the way' and not 'we have six children'.

 

[Alexi]

I am unbeatable because I am Vladimir. Putin's. Livejournal.

Ack! I apologize! Here, take this peace offering of brownies sprinkled with rainbow sauce!!