Abortion

[Valor]

I'd have to disagree with you there. It's not the father's place to say at all. He can have his opinion heard, but it's not his decision to make.

I beg to differ. Because, here, it implies that Furret is saying that the man should not even be part of the decision. Oh sure, it sounds like it shouldn't be his final decision if you look at it from one way, buuuuut...

It comes down to the fact that the fetus is a woman's leech, and it is up to her - and no one else - to determine what she does about it. The fact that you think we as males have any right to interfere with her choice is disturbing.

Whoopsies! Furret's all FEMININE POWAAA. Gosh, darn, and there are just so many other examples in the last couple pages. I mean, what's the point of the father even having unprotected sex with the mother if she doesn't really care about his feelings? The guy just may want to have a condom on to prevent those little accidents, and that's only if he's willing to even have sex with her.

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

I beg to differ. Because, here, it implies that Furret is saying that the man should not even be part of the decision. Oh sure, it sounds like it shouldn't be his final decision if you look at it from one way, buuuuut...

I beg to differ, because what Furret was referring to was that the father shouldn't get a say in whether or not the foetus is aborted. Voicing an opinion =/= being involved in the deciding process.

 

[EvilCrazyMonkey]

Our logic is this:

Mother and father get one point for generally having to look after the kid.

Mom: 1
Dad: 1

Mother gets a point for having it in her body.

Mom: 2
Dad: 1

There is no third party, so the mom should have more say than the dad. Of course, I'm not going to blot out the dad's opinion if they want to talk about it, but I also will not force the mom to listen to the dad.

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

Shouldn't discriminate between children born to an unmarried and married couple. And marriage doesn't mean that the father wouldn't bail. You have to remember that we men are the jackasses of our race.

 

[Valor]

I beg to differ, because what Furret was referring to was that the father shouldn't get a say in whether or not the foetus is aborted. Voicing an opinion =/= being involved in the deciding process.

Oooh, I'm soooo sorry. I forgot that a decision can't be made with an OPINION. Oh, what was I ever thinking? Probably some silly thing called logic.

Our logic is this:

Mother and father get one point for generally having to look after the kid.

Mom: 1
Dad: 1

Mother gets a point for having it in her body.

Mom: 2
Dad: 1

There is no third party, so the mom should have more say than the dad. Of course, I'm not going to blot out the dad's opinion if they want to talk about it, but I also will not force the mom to listen to the dad.

What the fuck? Half the genes came from the father, half from mother. It just so happened that nature decided that the female sex should carry the egg and it stays put. Your argument is completely ridiculous.

Shouldn't discriminate between children born to an unmarried and married couple. And marriage doesn't mean that the father wouldn't bail. You have to remember that we men are the jackasses of our race.

Correction: YOU'RE the jackass for assuming that all men are failures. Thanks for reversing sexism, it's great to know that society will just keep going in a loop if we're going to make women superior rather than the simple concept that both genders are equal.

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

Oooh, I'm soooo sorry. I forgot that a decision can't be made with an OPINION. Oh, what was I ever thinking? Probably some silly thing called logic.

What I'm trying to say is that he can say what he thinks of the situation and talk to the mother about it BUT IT'S THE MOTHER'S FUCKING CHOICE WHETHER SHE HAS TO LISTEN AND HER FUCKING CHOICE WHETHER OR NOT TO KEEP THE BABY.

What the fuck? Half the genes came from the father, half from mother. It just so happened that nature decided that the female sex should carry the egg and it stays put. Your argument is completely ridiculous.

Fine. Let's try it this way:

One point for providing sex cell:

Mam: 1
Dad: 1

One point for carrying a nutrient-eating parasite, having massive hormonal shifts and the pain of labour and giving birth:

Mam: 2
Dad: 1

Correction: YOU'RE the jackass for assuming that all men are failures. Thanks for reversing sexism, it's great to know that society will just keep going in a loop if we're going to make women superior rather than the simple concept that both genders are equal.

Could have sworn you were one of the people with a good grasp of sarcasm.

 

[EvilCrazyMonkey]

Not technically for having it in her body, per se, but for the negative effects of pregnancy and the fact that it is still part of her body.

 

[Valor]

What I'm trying to say is that he can say what he thinks of the situation and talk to the mother about it BUT IT'S THE MOTHER'S FUCKING CHOICE WHETHER SHE HAS TO LISTEN AND HER FUCKING CHOICE WHETHER OR NOT TO KEEP THE BABY.

So... why did she have sex with the guy in the first place if she didn't want his thoughts on this? Kinda destroys the idea of being a family.

inb4rape

Fine. Let's try it this way:

One point for providing sex cell:

Mam: 1
Dad: 1

One point for carrying a nutrient-eating parasite, having massive hormonal shifts and the pain of labour and giving birth:

Mam: 2
Dad: 1

Why the hell are you still using this stupid point system? It makes no sense at all. Stop using this argument already.

Could have sworn you were one of the people with a good grasp of sarcasm.

After flipping out at me earlier as well as some rather sad posts earlier, I don't think you should be talking to me about sarcasm. kthxby get better argumnts

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

So... why did she have sex with the guy in the first place if she didn't want his thoughts on this? Kinda destroys the idea of being a family.

inb4rape

She might have thought that he would make a good father at the time of the sex, then they might have had a falling out, broken up and now she doesn't want his input.

Why the hell are you still using this stupid point system? It makes no sense at all. Stop using this argument already.

Fine then. Woman goes through more and no force in the law can allow someone else to decide whether or not to go through what she goes through. In most places anyway.

After flipping out at me earlier as well as some rather sad posts earlier, I don't think you should be talking to me about sarcasm. kthxby get better argumnts

I didn't flip out, I capitalised to try and hammer the concept into your skull. And examples of sad posts?

 

[Retsu]

So it basically comes down to this:
If the man wants to keep the baby and the woman disagrees, he can't because nature didn't gift him with a uterus.

If the man wants to keep the baby but the woman disagrees, she has to go through with it anyway? We're talking nine months of complete hell and then afterbirth which isn't pretty either.

 

[Zhorken]

So it basically comes down to this:
If the man wants to keep the baby and the woman disagrees, he can't because nature didn't gift him with a uterus.

Better than making the woman go through with the thing until it's a baby just because nature didn't 'gift' the guy with a uterus!

 

[opaltiger]

He can voice his opinion all he wants but since he can't carry it, he may as well say nothing since it won't affect anything.

See, I think what a lot of people are trying to say, is that in a healthy relationship the parents would want to DISCUSS it and decide together. Why the hell would it not affect anything?

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

@...:

The woman decides whether or not to keep the baby. The LEGAL power to do so rests with her. If she wants to make the decision with the father, the two can talk about it and then come to a decision but the woman has the LEGAL power to make the decision, not the man. If she doesn't want to make the decision with the father, she can just decide because she has the LEGAL power to make the decision.

 

[Zhorken]

If the woman is bent on not having it, it doesn't matter what the man says since she can ignore it.

Yes? I don't really see any way of enforcing letting the man keep the thing somehow without making the woman also keep it? inside her body? which doesn't look better at all?

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

We never said that he couldn't be part of the deciding process, we said the power lay with the women for the final decision.

 

[Tarvos]

'course it does, but in any sane relationship the parents decide together

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

Yes, thank you for repeating most of the last four pages in a neat, tidy, repetitive package.

 

[Tarvos]

A funny thing; I'm not religious and I don't know how I could ever go through with an abortion.

 

[Alexi]

One doesn't have to be religious to not like or agree with abortions. (Though I admit, I'm surprised you feel that way. Why is that?)

 

[Tarvos]

'Cause having children is like my life goal or something. I have a dream, a sort of belief that I want to see my own children grow up and watch them become adults and be there for them even when they are handicapped or don't come at due times. I don't think I can treat my own child as an object that way. To me, that's awful. I can understand why people think that way, though. I'm open to other people deciding for themselves about abortion and I can understand it in case of rape; that is the only case I can envision for abortion.

However anything else... no. I can't do that physically. I don't want to tell others whether to abort their child or not considering that is their own problem (so I am pro-choice) and the option should be available, but I don't think I could go through with it. For me it's just too much, it's my child, and I want to see it grow and blossom.