Abortion

[Zhorken]

Stephen Hawking wasn't born like this.

I know. That's not what I was trying to say. :( I didn't think that example through well, sorry.

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

Bumping this out of hell but I thought you guys might be interested in this: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion

Republicans are children.

 

[Harlequin]

I love you for finding that

it

it made my day

thank you so much

 

[ElBoricua]

Let's one of you have an abortion and come speak about it then.

 

[Harlequin]

Let's one of you have an abortion and come speak about it then.

well I'd totally do that except a) I don't have a womb and b) why

 

[Tarvos]

and also i have experience with the opposite

 

[Zhorken]

arrgh my last few posts in this thread were written so badly

I place a lot of value on intellect and I just couldn't raise a kid who'd never progress very far mentally. I'd be constantly reminded of it, it would depress the hell out of me, and the kid would also probably be miserable in turn. If my child were going to turn out that way, yeah, I'd want it aborted. I don't have a womb so it wouldn't be my choice in the end, but still.

Let's one of you have an abortion and come speak about it then.

yeah abortions are fucking hard, sometimes impossible, to go through. We get that. It's the same way for pro-choice people.

I know this guy was banned and probably a troll but :V

 

[Dannichu]

I place a lot of value on intellect and I just couldn't raise a kid who'd never progress very far mentally. I'd be constantly reminded of it, it would depress the hell out of me, and the kid would also probably be miserable in turn. If my child were going to turn out that way, yeah, I'd want it aborted. I don't have a womb so it wouldn't be my choice in the end, but still.

Aww, really? I don't ever want kids, but if I did, all I'd want would be for them to be happy. I'd much, much sooner my hypothetical kid never finish school and work in a minimum wage job and lead a happy, enjoyable life, than have them graduate from a respected uni, earn millions and be miserable.

Ever seen Forrest Gump? :)

 

[J.T.]

Aww, really? I don't ever want kids, but if I did, all I'd want would be for them to be happy. I'd much, much sooner my hypothetical kid never finish school and work in a minimum wage job and lead a happy, enjoyable life, than have them graduate from a respected uni, earn millions and be miserable.

Ever seen Forrest Gump? :)

This. Money doesn't buy happiness.

Also that was one of my favorite movies ever.

 

[Harlequin]

Aww, really? I don't ever want kids, but if I did, all I'd want would be for them to be happy. I'd much, much sooner my hypothetical kid never finish school and work in a minimum wage job and lead a happy, enjoyable life, than have them graduate from a respected uni, earn millions and be miserable.

Ever seen Forrest Gump? :)

I don't think Zhorken means "I want a genius child" but rather "I want a child of at least average intelligence" which is ... what most people want, really.

 

[jimmyboyacreman]

abortions for anyone who wants one! no seriously it's her parasite let her do what she wants.

why can't she do the same to her newborn child? seriously, where do we draw the line here?

EDIT:I know this thread is a bit old, but I though it would be better to revive it than make a new abortion thread

 

[ultraviolet]

why can't she do the same to her newborn child? seriously, where do we draw the line here?

Because there's a massive developmental difference between a foetus and a newborn? o.O

 

[opaltiger]

why can't she do the same to her newborn child? seriously, where do we draw the line here?

How about at the point where the foetus can survive independently of the mother? That has always struck me as a good place!

 

[Creasy]

where the foetus can survive independently of the mother?

I don't understand how that line is ethically meaningful.

 

[opaltiger]

I don't understand how that line is ethically meaningful.

How is any other line ethically meaningful? You have to draw a line somewhere, and the point at which the foetus stops relying on the mother is a decent place. Up until that point, the mother should be able to choose what to do with the foetus, given that it is living off her body's resources.

 

[Creasy]

How is any other line ethically meaningful?

Until a certain point (at least ~26 weeks), a fetus is biologically incapable of sentience and therefore the moral equal of a plant. I would draw the line there. Aborting it after that point is morally similar to killing an animal (wrong, IMO).

and the point at which the foetus stops relying on the mother is a decent place.

Why? If your argument for abortion is that a woman has no obligation to provide for the fetus, she should be able to remove it from her body at any time. Right?

 

[opaltiger]

Until a certain point (at least ~26 weeks), a fetus is biologically incapable of sentience and therefore the moral equal of a plant. I would draw the line there. Aborting it after that point is morally similar to killing an animal (wrong, IMO).

That is also a good measure! And, incidentally, coincides pretty precisely with my cut-off point (50% survival is at around 25 weeks). I wasn't saying there is only one place the line can be drawn; I was giving one option in reply to what was meant as an obnoxiously rhetorical question.

Why? If your argument for abortion is that a woman has no obligation to provide for the fetus, she should be able to remove it from her body at any time. Right?

You make an interesting point. I think at some level what is morally logical (and what an oxymoron that is) and what is practical clash and must be reconciled. For example, I could argue that after the foetus is viable the woman has no right to abort it as it no longer relies on her, and should instead deliver by c-section; but this is neither practical nor moral, as it infringes the woman's right to not having her body cut open.

 

[Lorem Ipsum]

It irritates me when you read in the papers about people (particularly in America), making death threats against doctors who perform abortions. They're perfectly fine things. If a woman thinks that she can't cope with a baby, then surely it's more morally right to end its life (which, by the way, before the cut off point has is not sentient), than to have it born into a stressful life where the woman can't cope, the baby might not get the right care as a result, and it's a bad thing for both?

This argument about killing babies and "the children of God" is bullshit, if you ask me - of course you wouldn't kill a live baby who can think and breathe and feel pain, but (as I think somebody has said in a previous post), killing, effectively, a plant is no worse than pruning your sweet peas or cutting down the brambles that are crowding the garden!

I wonder how many anti-abortionists would still be doing what they do if they were raped and made pregnant because of it, or if they had an unplanned pregnancy? The decisions that humans make, however rash, must be redeemable, and one should not have one's freedom shackled by something that isn't necessarily difficult to deal with.

 

[Harlequin]

why can't she do the same to her newborn child? seriously, where do we draw the line here?

EDIT:I know this thread is a bit old, but I though it would be better to revive it than make a new abortion thread

When it stops being a parasite (ie it can live outside of the mother's body) then I guess that's a good place for a line.

 

[Eeveelution]

In my opinion, whether abortion is good or bad really depends on the reason for each individual one. My mom's friend tried to get a late-term abortion because she had a life-threatening condition that could kill her if she had the baby. The doctor didn't want to be held responsible if she died from the abortion though and rejected it, and as a result the woman did have the baby and they both lived, though the child had some mental disorder. Later she had another child under the same conditions (though she didn't go to the doctor this time), just so that when she died there would be someone to care for the first child. The second child was normal. Also, one woman became pregnant from a rape and said if she didn't get a late-term abortion and had the baby she'd commit suicide, so she got the abortion. Thing is, the late-term abortion doctors can choose to turn the woman down if she doesn't have good enough reason. One woman said she'd put the baby up for adoption if she had it and was turned down for abortion.

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but Britney Spears had an abortion because it would give her bad publicity if she had the baby. That is one of the dumbest reasons to have an abortion, though the child is probably better off without her as a mother.

Besides, all these anti-abortion people are going a little crazy over giving mothers who had abortions a hard time. My religion teacher had a friend who had an abortion, and she felt so bad that every time she went to confession she'd beg for forgiveness for it because she couldn't forgive herself. I doubt she's the only one, so these people tend to make things worse than they already are.

I'm not saying I support abortion, I'm saying that sometimes there is no other option. The bad reasons get more publicity though. In ghost stories, there is practically an entire category for abortion-related incidents, and I have yet to find one where the abortion was performed with a reason that makes sense.

To summarize it: abortion should only be done when there is no other choice (or when the other options include suicide or something else death-related). Plus, some people die while the abortion's being performed, so you're risking your own life by having one. At least if you have good reason your death won't be for completely nothing other than just not wanting the baby. Besides, you could always put the baby up for adoption if you don't want it.