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Cats (2019) Mafia

i'll be kinda like :| if herbe flips town, but this case feels better to me than the other wagons at present
 
Reminder: The day phase will end in 2 hours.

Active votes
Tofu votes Mr. Ultracool (#1604)
rari_teh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1730)
IndigoEmmy votes Tofu (#1734)
Herbe votes Mr. Ultracool (#1886)
RedneckPhoenix votes IndigoEmmy (#1926)
kyeugh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1939)
I liek Squirtles votes Bluwiikoon (#1996)
Keldeo votes Herbe (#2056)
mewtini votes Herbe (#2059)
Trebek votes Herbe (#2084)
Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2118)

Active votes bolded. Invalid votes stricken through.

Vipera Magnifica votes kyeugh (#1270)
kyeugh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1299)
Vipera Magnifica votes Mr. Ultracool (#1326)
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#1327)
mewtini unvotes (#1340)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#1357)
mewtini unvotes (#1359)
RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#1453)
mewtini votes IndigoEmmy (#1472)
Trebek votes IndigoEmmy (#1473)
rari_teh votes IndigoEmmy (#1482)
Herbe votes IndigoEmmy (#1489)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#1567)
Tofu votes Mr. Ultracool (#1604)
IndigoEmmy votes Mr. Ultracool (#1612)
Mr. Ultracool votes IndigoEmmy (#1613)
Herbe unvotes (#1653)
Bluwiikoon votes IndigoEmmy (#1717)
rari_teh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1730)
kyeugh votes Tofu (#1732)
IndigoEmmy votes Tofu (#1734)
Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#1736)
Bluwiikoon votes Tofu (#1747)
mewtini votes Tofu (#1797)
Trebek votes Tofu (#1876)
Mr. Ultracool unvotes (#1884)
Herbe votes Mr. Ultracool (#1886)
RedneckPhoenix votes IndigoEmmy (#1926)
Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#1927)
kyeugh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1939)
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#1941)
I liek Squirtles votes Bluwiikoon (#1996)
Keldeo votes Herbe (#2056)
mewtini votes Herbe (#2059)
Trebek votes Herbe (#2084)
Bluwiikoon unvotes (#2095)
Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2104)
Vipera Magnifica unvotes (#2114)
Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2118)
 
Yeah idk after sleeping I think if Blu were being malicious with the alien thing, i.e. trying to spin the alien thing into an Emmy miskill, he’d be trying harder because alien being voted out while unactivated makes the most sense. Also I think I realized something about it.

kyeugh said:
Keldeo said:
Herbe >= Ultracool >= anyone else of like... [MP7, RNP, ILS, maybe Blu] I guess >> Tofu/Emmy, maybe.
Click to expand...
why is ultracool above mp7/rnp/ils/blu here?

i’m kind of considering a vote between ils/rnp right now.
Click to expand...
I guess just because like, he hasn’t really been here and there are still reasons I’m suspicious. I agree that the wagon formation is pretty meh and last time it was like that in a game I was in I probably would have benefited from just clearing the person, but like, I just can’t bring myself to clear him.

Tell me more about ILS/RNP? I thought RNP’s posting about Emmy read as fairly sincere.
kyeugh said:
@Keldeo in re my fear of you being a wolf: without rereading that eod, i guess i’m kind of thinking the myuma thing was a bit odd. i think i don’t really understand why you ultimately went to stryke, and letting me make that myuma post/pulling a bunch of people into the wagon without really commenting on it even though it was initially your scumlean seems kind of weird.

definitely not impossible that you did this as town, but i think you starting this wagon and then sort of kicking back and backing off pushing it too strongly once it looks like a townie is going to put in the work on it could come from scum too. again, this is without rereading, so i might be totally misremembering and maybe you did say some stuff etc, but this is my memory of it rn.

i think your feelings about vm’s push on me poke a hole in this somewhat, but it still wouldn’t be implausible by any means that you do that as a wolf.

i feel good about your herbe vote though.
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Oh, I was on my phone and you were doing a fine job explaining it so I didn’t feel the need to go into depth about my own thoughts haha. Also I swapped onto Stryke at the end because imo it’s better to vote out someone who has claimed rather than someone who hasn’t, even if you’re scumreading the latter more, and especially when that claim is VT (because then the other person has a nonzero chance of being some power role)
 
Keldeo said:
Rari, can you explain more why you don’t feel Herbe would have claimed as mafia in that spot? What do you think Mr. Ultracool’s partners were doing re: that wagon if he was mafia?
Click to expand...
from what the more experienced players said, rolecop is a traditionally mafia role (despite not being impossible to be town), so I guess that any idea of counterclaiming a cop with a rolecop would make the rolecop look bad
and I get the reasoning that w!herbe could do that in a flimsy attempt of directing the doctor’s heal towards him, but that proposition pinged me as naïve more than anything, and naïve is definitely not the best descriptor to herbe’s wolfgame if tvt is to be believed

he could be wolfing really well and playing 4D chess with me and my gut, but I think it’s too risky to lynch a claimed, possibly town-aligned rolecop that won’t even be here to fend for himself on eod iirc over a lurker while there are ways to mech-confirm his alignment by toMorrow

wrt ultracool’s mafia partners, no idea. that’s part of why i think that this all is a v/v shitfest, but i’d rather lynch the unclaimed
 
what i mean is, i really don't want to vote ultracool bc he’s likely v, but i really really don’t want to lynch herbe bc he’s a likely-v PR
 
rari_teh said:
and I get the reasoning that w!herbe could do that in a flimsy attempt of directing the doctor’s heal towards him, but that proposition pinged me as naïve more than anything, and naïve is definitely not the best descriptor to herbe’s wolfgame if tvt is to be believed
Click to expand...
i kinda thought that wolf herbe thrived off of seeming naive tbh?
 
Hmm, you raise a good point about the possibility of mechanical confirmation, Rari.

I don’t agree with the people saying Herbe and Emmy has to be one mafia and one town, because I feel like both being town is possible as a design decision if the mafia has like, multiple roles that would fool one, like a godfather or some way to tamper with inspections. So I guess I’m still wary about that too.
 
Keldeo said:
I don’t agree with the people saying Herbe and Emmy has to be one mafia and one town
Click to expand...
to be clear i don't say this purely because of game design theorizing, i'm just latching onto the heal comment

rari_teh said:
he could be wolfing really well and playing 4D chess with me and my gut, but I think it’s too risky to lynch a claimed, possibly town-aligned rolecop that won’t even be here to fend for himself on eod iirc over a lurker while there are ways to mech-confirm his alignment by toMorrow
Click to expand...
yeah this is fair tbh. i just am like ... who else ...
 
Keldeo said:
Hmm, you raise a good point about the possibility of mechanical confirmation, Rari.

I don’t agree with the people saying Herbe and Emmy has to be one mafia and one town, because I feel like both being town is possible as a design decision if the mafia has like, multiple roles that would fool one, like a godfather or some way to tamper with inspections. So I guess I’m still wary about that too.
Click to expand...
Like, if they’re both town or even if Emmy is town and Herbe is mafia, maybe mafia has a roleblocker or something and just prevents Emmy from getting that result, or something... Maybe I’m getting too into the weeds here.
 
So, the way I see the Herbe situation is: Indigo’s cop claim puts the mafia in trouble: there is probably at least one doctor in the game, no danger of a healer clash so zero reason doctors wouldn’t heal Indigo, so the mafia is highly unlikely to be able to actually nightkill her. The mafia has two ways out: somehow get Emmy lynched despite the claim, or divert healers onto someone else. And... conveniently, suddenly Herbe appears, attempting both those things?

One could wonder why he didn’t just counterclaim regular cop - but by claiming rolecop instead, he can give actual provable rolecop results, making himself look more credible than Indigo, and also when Indigo flips town that doesn’t necessarily implicate him.

It all just. Fits really well? I’m wary that I’m narrative-building but it seems strikingly in line with the mafia’s agendain that precise situation.
 
Keldeo said:
Oh yeah starting to look at EOD1 reminded me -

@M Plus 7 Hope you can make it in for EOD tbh! Cliffs notes on the last however many pages:
- IndigoEmmy fakeclaimed a weird role and then claimed Skimbleshanks, cop with n0 mewtini and n1 Seshas
- Herbe claimed Victoria, role cop with n0 mewtini and n1 Butterfree as "fishing brother", which she confirmed (one of a pair of vengefuls who gets a revenge kill when the other person dies)
- Mr. Ultracool is the main wagon right now with no real counterwagon
- there's an ISO button now!

(Am I giving MP7 cliffs because I want him to be town and get engaged? Yes. Will I probably keep giving him another day here just because I invited him and want him to be town? Yes. Do I actually think he's town... uh... pending until he does deeper analysis. Liked the agendalessness in his EOD1, his tone, and his questions well enough. I think he's accurate in saying that he seems like he's replacing in for himself every time he enters thread, and that's sort of getting in the way of me seeing something really unfakeable.)
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for this! I'll uhh see what to think about all of that, haha.

Also, ISO button?!!? It's like Christmas morning.
 
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