Cats (2019) Mafia

[Keldeo]

Like, maybe I'm making too much of this or projecting the wrong model of his actions or something? But

[self-conscious wolf who is scared of looking bad, and who thinks "caring about how they come across" will seem villagery]
and
[wolf who is TMIing / perspective slipping that my read is legit]

don't have a ton of overlap in my mind, besides maybe like "wolf whose main tactic to fake content is to not actually fake it, and post from a genuine place"

 

[kyeugh]

like, isn’t it much more plausible that Trebek would vent about that in scumchat rather than in the normal thread if he’s mafia?

not if he thinks vocalizing that self-consciousness is a towny look, as keldeo suggested in

I think as a self-conscious wolf it's easy to play up that self-consciousness and sort of just not do anything until the thread state settles down and you can make reads that don't draw a ton of attention to yourself.

i think everyone’s reactions to keldeo’s vote are a little odd

 

[Trebek]

my comments on your read were meant to be a critique of my own playstyle. like, i came in thinking that i had to play a certain way, and after reading what you said realized that i was actively shooting myself in the foot by playing like that. but frankly, idk where to go from there now, bc either i dont change how i talk, and this narrative continues, or i change it up, and then someone else goes "hey trebek immediately changed how he plays because someone FoS'ed him, that seems suspicious"

 

[mewtini]

i think everyone’s reactions to keldeo’s vote are a little odd

idk. like. do you feel ready to vote? i realized after initially posting 'uh' that it was a gambit but i kind of hadn't reached that conclusion yet, so at first i was just like "wtf voting" combined w the fact that i didn't actually find a ton of issue with the post that i think sparked the vote

 

[Keldeo]

I guess idk what response I was really expecting from the first type of wolf there.

But, well, I feel like if he's concerned about not getting pressured, I don't think that post, at face value, effects anything other than him continuing to be pressured. Does that make any sense?

I kind of don't think you admit that?

little bit confused as to exactly what type of accusation you are going for here?

Sorry - I'm trying to square my understanding of your response to me with my understanding of what your mindset would look like as a wolf here. I'm tentatively concluding that your reaction was towny, I think?

 

[kyeugh]

i think everyone’s reactions to keldeo’s vote are a little odd

idk. like. do you feel ready to vote? i realized after initially posting 'uh' that it was a gambit but i kind of hadn't reached that conclusion yet, so at first i was just like "wtf voting" combined w the fact that i didn't actually find a ton of issue with the post that i think sparked the vote

i mean yeah why not. it’s extremely easy to unvote and it seemed clear enough to me that it was placed with the intention of drawing a response out of him, which it’s done. i find the surprise less weird than the fact that it kind of feels like people proceeded to kinda grill keldeo for the vote and want some sort of leakproof explanation out of him

 

[Keldeo]

my comments on your read were meant to be a critique of my own playstyle. like, i came in thinking that i had to play a certain way, and after reading what you said realized that i was actively shooting myself in the foot by playing like that. but frankly, idk where to go from there now, bc either i dont change how i talk, and this narrative continues, or i change it up, and then someone else goes "hey trebek immediately changed how he plays because someone FoS'ed him, that seems suspicious"

Hey, I don't want you to feel like you have to or don't have to change how you'll play.

I think maybe I overemphasized "if you're town, post what you want without worrying about how you're being seen"... Maybe "if you're town, post what you think you should post, and it's on us if we can't work it out" is better.

 

[mewtini]

it seemed clear enough to me that it was placed with the intention of drawing a response out of him

ok fair enough, i think i just had a cognitive lapse and i kinda posted before processing that it was a reaction test. as far as "everyone's reactions were a little odd" though - i can't speak for rari but going off of his earlier posts ILS had just finished catching up, i think, so i wouldn't call that one all that bizarre of a reaction either

 

[Keldeo]

i think everyone’s reactions to keldeo’s vote are a little odd

Can you talk to me about specific reactions here? The general sense that I got was just people being confused, which I think is understandable enough because I just dropped a naked vote and peaced.

How are you feeling about Trebek's reaction also? Do you think my read makes sense?


I'm actually not entirely clear, mewtini, how do you feel about how my vote affects your read on me? Like I understand your disagreements with my rationale for finding Trebek ~~wolfy originally, but I'm not sure how that makes you feel.

 

[Trebek]

Sorry - I'm trying to square my understanding of your response to me with my understanding of what your mindset would look like as a wolf here. I'm tentatively concluding that your reaction was towny, I think?

I think maybe I overemphasized "if you're town, post what you want without worrying about how you're being seen"... Maybe "if you're town, post what you think you should post, and it's on us if we can't work it out" is better.

this makes a lot more sense! i think i ended up misinterpreting your bid for understanding as a foregone conclusion that i was wolf, which ended up causing a bit of panic

frankly, at the end of the day, disregarding the internal monologue of "oh god im messing things up watch me die on the first day whatdoidowhatdoido", im not actually against the idea of an early vote like this, especially since that internal monologue is sort of what the point was supposed to be, in a way

 

[rari_teh]

I kind of don't think you admit that?

little bit confused as to exactly what type of accusation you are going for here?

kinda feels like he’s trying to shade you and hoping it sticks tbqh

i think everyone’s reactions to keldeo’s vote are a little odd

i mean yeah why not. it’s extremely easy to unvote and it seemed clear enough to me that it was placed with the intention of drawing a response out of him, which it’s done. i find the surprise less weird than the fact that it kind of feels like people proceeded to kinda grill keldeo for the vote and want some sort of leakproof explanation out of him

am I having déjà vu?

 

[mewtini]

I'm actually not entirely clear, mewtini, how do you feel about how my vote affects your read on me?

i don't really know! i guess my gut feeling is that i just don't think it's a play you would've made in tvt which makes me worry a bit. pretty much that and i think trebek is LHF as things stand but i don't feel like awful about you ... just not as great as i did before. i also am suffering a bit from not totally understanding 538, but maybe i need to reread it again. it just felt like a more intimidating play than i've seen from you before

also that in tvt i don't think you ever started a vote train iirc

 

[Keldeo]

kinda feels like he’s trying to shade you and hoping it sticks tbqh

No? That post is me arriving at the conclusion that he's town, because it'd be weird if he was mafia in that specific situation I posited.

I feel like I'm not expressing my ideas very well overall today, sorry.

How do you feel about me and Trebek through all of this?

 

[Trebek]

trebek is LHF

don't think ive seen this acronym before?

 

[mewtini]

don't think ive seen this acronym before?

low-hanging fruit, a comparatively easy lynch/push

 

[rari_teh]

i just don't think it's a play you would've made in tvt which makes me worry a bit

i don't feel like awful about you ... just not as great as i did before.

it just felt like a more intimidating play than i've seen from you before

also that in tvt i don't think you ever started a vote train iirc

my thoughts exactly tbh

 

[Trebek]

No? That post is me arriving at the conclusion that he's town, because it'd be weird if he was mafia in that specific situation I posited.

this makes sense to me after calming down a bit
my gut reaction was that it seemed like an accusation, but i think thats just bc i happened to be the one being questioned in this scenario

 

[kyeugh]

Can you talk to me about specific reactions here? The general sense that I got was just people being confused, which I think is understandable enough because I just dropped a naked vote and peaced.

nothing specific, just like... a lot of people were like “uhhh??? what the hell this is weird” and i really don’t feel that it was especially weird. it’s NOT weird to just put a vote on someone to see where it goes in the beginning of the game. then when you came back to provide a pretty lucid explanation, a couple people (rari/mewtini) just started trying to poke holes in it for some reason. just the entire response seems overblown for what seems to me like a pretty innocuous thing

How are you feeling about Trebek's reaction also? Do you think my read makes sense?

yeah your read checks out to me. i don’t think his response is doing him any favors but it’s not really making things worse either. feels like more of the exact vibes you were questioning in the first place i think

am I having déjà vu?

what

 

[rari_teh]

kinda feels like he’s trying to shade you and hoping it sticks tbqh

No? That post is me arriving at the conclusion that he's town, because it'd be weird if he was mafia in that specific situation I posited.

I feel like I'm not expressing my ideas very well overall today, sorry.

How do you feel about me and Trebek through all of this?

then why did you vote him in first place? I really don’t understand your move here tbh

my feelings: Trebek has come out townier than he was, maybe? just a little
about you, I really have zero idea what to make of this. for me it doesn’t make sense if you’re town, but it also doesn’t make sense if you’re mafia

 

[Keldeo]

I'm actually not entirely clear, mewtini, how do you feel about how my vote affects your read on me?

i don't really know! i guess my gut feeling is that i just don't think it's a play you would've made in tvt which makes me worry a bit. pretty much that and i think trebek is LHF as things stand but i don't feel like awful about you ... just not as great as i did before. i also am suffering a bit from not totally understanding 538, but maybe i need to reread it again. it just felt like a more intimidating play than i've seen from you before

also that in tvt i don't think you ever started a vote train iirc

Ahh.

You wouldn't have been beholden to my mindset here, but something that hit kind of hard for me was in TVTropes graveyard chat, pre-my death, when Eifie said that all of the active town were gone (I think in the context of reversing the RNP wagon? I don't really remember.) Because I have/had thread presence and talk to people, but I'm not "active" in the sense of the opposite of "passive," I have to be pushed into taking stands, and even though it's warm and fuzzy and I can blame other people for starting mislynch wagons and everything, that's kind of not the type of towngame that I want to play.

So like it's maybe a cop-out to say that I'm different from TVT because I am trying to play a bit differently, but it is what it is.