Cats (2019) Mafia

[mewtini]

sorry in advance for the nature of these next several posts, it'll probably be pretty rehashy and i'll be annotating pretty much post-by-post as i find stuff that's interesting. i was talking all day obvi but i was super in and out (basically was bouncing around cleaning for a thing that was happening at my house) and hadn't formed coherent reads or any real sense of linearity, so i'm taking the opportunity now to do so :p

It turns out "not playing mafia for a few hours" is an effective home remedy for mild headaches :p

honestly yes. this game is very Head Hurt

 

[mewtini]

first up! ultracool stuff:
his playstyle is no longer quite as lurky as it was in tvtropes so i'm going to disregard that line of thought for now and just say that i don't independently care much about his d1.

thus ...... i focus on His Actual Posting.

overwhelmingly i notice that it's pretty like, """mech"""-related. he's pretty detached but i guess i come back around to a null on him; someone wolf!lurking around the thread, or innocent!someone trying to catch up, are i think equally fairly liable to pull out specific posts that go against the codified Way That You Should Play Mafia (like fishing, feeling weird about the cop discussion quoted) because they're easier to comment on and quite frankly i think that's NAI?

now that i think about it that way, i think that i'll formally drop the light defending i did earlier on. i agree with what butterfree said - in that he didn't really take opportunities to shade, and he showed up with 'original' thoughts - but i'm not sure i'm as convinced of a town-positive read for him or that it's odd scumplay, because reading back, i think his content might have been more easily reproducible as maf than i realized, and it doesn't help a ton that he hasn't really discussed individual players beyond stuff like this

on the other hand i don't find myself really wanting to lynch him so we will see where the night takes me <3

Spoiler: quotes

Well, I just found it weird that kyeugh posted this, because I don't get why the Mafia should care about the flavor:

actually i think the mafia should look at flavor more because every time we killed one of our own last game they glared at us in death and none of us noticed. just saying bro. just had to put that self own down

Sorry for only checking in this late - somehow, I must have accidentally unsubscribed from this thread or something, because according to my notifications, no one posted anything since yesterday.
That said, isn't this

can you [kyeugh] elaborate on this [kyeugh saying "pretty sure i know who the vig is"]?

basically fishing, i.e. antitown play?

Announcement to all cops (if there are any): Please check kyeugh tonight.

Telling the cop whom to check seems quite fishy, too - what if the Maf has a Watcher?
IndigoEmmy

 

[rari_teh]

oh, i’ve been leaving blu out of my lists. that makes it seven, not six.

what makes you shortlist blu tbh? while he did undergo some Read Decay® for me, I still don’t see him as a probable maf…?

 

[mewtini]

the roleclaimfest, pt. i:

Well, you've made it pretty clear that you're a power role of some kind, thus painting yourself as a prime target for the mafia to kill toNight. So, it would perhaps be helpful for the Town if you claim before you (most likely) die?

Spoiler: quotes

hmmmmm. this [the post above] seems a little pushy? i feel like my stance on emmy is more towards vt/w, since (obviously i dont know emmy's brain so this is speculation) power role emmy would have more of a reason to actively claim/defend herself than just like, trying to guilt people lol. this frankly comes across as pushing for information / trying to push discussion off of yourself

basically, my main angst about this is that it seems like a super convenient way for ultracool to try to divert attention from his train over to emmy's train. i would feel a lot better about this post if he didnt currently have however many votes on him, which admittedly might be a logical fallacy on my end

yeah, i think i am going to stop thinking about PM meta, i dont want to be stuck in tinfoil hat land for the rest of the Day.

honestly, my gut is just telling me that its a weird role power that conveniently explains night immunity if emmy is mafia

+v trebek i think, in the world where emmy is town like i believe she is (pending me finishing readthrough). no reason for a wolf to go into defense mode here
otherwise why not let this go on. also tbqh i forgot to include this ultracool post above but it is a tonal shift from the rest of his posting, hm ...

(theorizing while the weird claim was still hanging over everyone)
her scumbuddies invented this in case she ever had to roleclaim, and she jumped on the first post urging her to do so.

also tbh if emmy were mafia ... i know that not everything gets run by everyone in the mafia but like. would they really have let her post a claim that was that insane tbh.

 

[mewtini]

the roleclaimfest, pt. ii:
- tinfoil possible for someone to claim that herbe/bfree are w/w because they substantiated the rolecop/fishing brother claims. but to recap, i will put that to rest, because i think/believe herbe knows my role given what little he's said about it. so unless y'all think it's herbe/bfree/me as w/w/w together ... three for three villagers babey!
- ignoring the alien discourse tbh because i think i'm just missing something there, but it later made me uncomfortable that blu was as insistent as he was about it. maybe he was memeing though. i haven't actually gotten to that part of the thread fully yet lol

Idk if trusting emmy is the mechanically safe option because a rolecop and a cop in the same game gives me pause. like, what the hell does the mafia have to balance out this situation? something scary I think.

reads to me like herbe has truly not considered the existence of a godfather, lmao, though this could come from a wolfy place i suppose

these were my bfree tangywhistles btw. post 1271 i hypocopped you and then 1290 something I made the fishing brothers comment. I was hoping you'd pay attention to my hypo of you and when you saw the FB comment, it might click (literally FB is so rare the only place I have ever seen it is on tcod, mafiauniverse doesn't even have a wiki page for it, so i thought it was a gamble to bring it up and might be too obvious)

i like this post and as i said earlier i think this sort of extended dogwhistle makes more sense as town than it does as mafia (otherwise why not just lay low until a claim/explanation became more necessary)

you said you also investigated mewt, right? i don’t want to give the maf too much role info early on, so the question i want to ask is, do you think mewt would have any motivation to false claim in the event that you are dead and she’s on the chopping block?

this is a really solvy question imo

i like VM's paranoia about herbe but i don't know if it makes him as towny as i thought it did at the time

Allow me to indulge in a tinfoil hat: would it be possible for the mafia to have some kind of tracking role, and for this to be some kind of elaborate bait to figure out who the healing role(s) are?

disagree because of how the claim went down, but seems like a decent ils thought i guess? also w this in mind, herbe suggesting a coinflip heal makes me think he's even townier. either way. he is a rolecop and i read the claim pretty organically (also herbe mentioning that he knew rolecop could look suboptimal, and that he would have claimed some type of regular cop as a wolf, sat well with me)

 

[mewtini]

this is a really solvy question imo

i kinda don't get it but it still feels solvy lmfao.

 

[Keldeo]

Okay, quick thoughts, bolding people's names for readability:

I see no reason to vote out Emmy today unless someone shows up and counterclaims.

The whole coded messages thing, while I'm like... fairly opposed to on principle because it seems pretty close to private communications (not saying that VM and Tofu don't seem aware of this, they do), makes me think that VM/Tofu are probably just two town, because I believe VM's read on Tofu regardless of his alignment and I think mechanics liker VM probably wouldn't want to box himself into a fake claim so soon. I don't really want to wagon Tofu today.

I think Herbe's rolecop hinting and claim felt like they could have come from mafia and I'm wondering why people besides VM don't seem to think so. I don't think the argument that he wouldn't have claimed because it looks suspicious holds water, that's just a big WIFOM to me and making big claims seems to be in Herbe's mafia range (see: The Mawile Incident).

I do believe that Herbe is a rolecop regardless of his alignment, and probably gave a truthful result on Butterfree, which makes me think she just has to be town now? Like, I don't really see how a fishing brother could be or would be a useful role as mafia, since the whole point is you can get "revenge" if you get nightkilled, right. I do think that whoever her "brother" is should not claim right now. Tiny tinfoil here that they're w/w but... I think that'll come out in the wash eventually, if we never get a "brother" claim.

Blu's treatment of the whole claim / suspicion (not just the alien thing, but also the alien thing) is raising my eyebrows a bit, particularly because his responses to my questions felt a little noncommittal and my initial read of him was pretty much just for tone and activity that have fallen off a bit today. I think people like Trebek and Butterfree may just be seeing something that I'm not about the theory, though.

I think Mr. Ultracool had a weird approach/perspective on Emmy's claim that I want to point out in a bit and so I think I'd like to keep my vote on him. But I also liked the against-the-grain things that Butterfree pointed out. I'm going to reread him and some other people now to see if I feel best voting here or somewhere else, because I don't want to vote Tofu over him.

--

Happy birthday to your husband, Butterfree!

Mildly interesting story about mafia playing with SOs: Apparently in one game I was playing, a couple were able to conceal their playing from each other, even while spending all their time together because they were literally in the late stages of planning their wedding. (The game was played on anonymous accounts with strict rules against hinting your identity.)

@rari_teh why am I a meow and what can I do to become a purr? This is a very important question.

 

[mewtini]

post-roleclaimfest:

[starting the tofu wagon was] partly not science tbh. i got odd vibes from her last post; she might just be really pocketed which would be understandable but i don’t think the alternate situations are that absurd.

i didn't really consider her just being pocketed by vm tbh and maybe it makes me feel better about her. but i also did not think the alternate worlds were nearly as absurd as she made them out to be and i guess there's just a weird perspective-skewing effect i get off of her/VM's posts in almost equal measure (sort of how i felt about RNP discourse in tvtropes) that makes me gut uneasy (will ISO her later). i agree with rari's 1914 that her concerted post about "certain people dominating" could just be newbie town

as of now i think i will probably come out of this saying that either way, tofu is more likely to be villa, and VM is possibly of either alignment

VM town for paranoia on Herbe
I liked and agree with Butterfree's analysis on Emmy so I think they're either both town or both scum and iirc herbe's check seems to mostly clear butterfree?

mist appearing

i’m still unsure how many grains of salt i am attributing to blu’s alienspec of emmy, but it does lead me to believe that if it isn’t emmy, that there is an alien somewhere else

i don't really agree with this because the alien-assistant role is so like, left-field, but think i like that trebek (after hearing me talk about my role post-tvt) made this connection?

 

[RNP]

going back and reading always helps. tbh i didnt even see emmy claim a role

that said? it reminds me heavily as someone in ToS who's mafia claiming to be a Survivor (someone who is able to guard at night, and wins just by staying alive)

in and of that, because the mafia won't kill one of their own, the mafioso can intentionally not kill someone and say "i was attacked by the mafia" and whatnot


i'm sticking with my emmy vote.

 

[RNP]

also emmy isn't activated alien cuz there were mafia kills both nights. don't fear it

 

[mewtini]

that said? it reminds me heavily as someone in ToS who's mafia claiming to be a Survivor (someone who is able to guard at night, and wins just by staying alive)

hey, do you mind expanding on this? i thought survivor was usually 3rd-party (off of googling just now), and she did offer herself up for the nightkill either way honestly just by having claimed a power role

 

[mewtini]

the last few pages:

I agree it's [herbe's rolecop] usually a mafia role but presumably he knows that too and would want avoid the scrutiny? that is, in the world where herbe is mafia, I don't think he claims?

yes tbh. herbe said that he was aware of that as he was claiming and even if you can think yourself into the "well maybe he wants us to think that he knows that so that we think that he's actually innocent," i honestly would just say that in that scenario he simply doesn't claim right then (which i still think arose because he was drawn out by "cops please claim") or he just claims regular cop, and is able to do fine there anyway since he'd be mafia

inb4 someone jokes about me being herbe pocketed again. i promise it is not just tone this time ok

if we assume there's at least one or two wolves among the most active players, as VM (IIRC?) suggested, then I think PoE suggests Keldeo? but I don't really like that either - he's playing virtually identically to last game (except the trebekkening)

mm, fair point... tbh the last couple posts are making me think i really need to look closer at keldeo. it didn’t even occur to me that everyone on my list of six is pretty much inactive.

i’m going to reread his iso. my vote might end up here later. thinking about it now i think his [EoD] was pretty weird, and i also wonder if he’s trying to pocket me on purpose.

interested in hearing you expand on the second sentence later because the keldeo mentions in this group of posts kind of blindsided me
doubtful that your list contains all scum though, precisely because they're all like. people not getting widely townread hahaha.

 

[mewtini]

sentence

not sentence, paragraph

 

[rari_teh]

@rari_teh why am I a meow and what can I do to become a purr? This is a very important question.

it’s mostly that, while your posts are very effective in moving the conversation forward and making people talk – which is great – as others pointed out, I don’t think you’d behave much differently as mafia?
and like. while I feel good about most of your posts, there were some things that gave me a little pause, trebekkening aside? like for example when I was pushing against Emmy’s fakeclaim you seemed very adamant on letting that one pass – but then again turns out that Emmy is (probably) just a cop, so I don’t know what mafia!you would gain from letting Emmy slide either
it’s just
you’re a puzzle to me, mate 3:

as to what can you do to climb my catlist, probably just keep being yourself I guess? if you’re town I’ll probably have more things to feel good about as time goes on and I’ll just accept that you’re unlikely to be mafia
like on tvt, where you were one of my only suspicions D1 and then raised to my towncore by D3 ~

 

[Keldeo]

going back and reading always helps. tbh i didnt even see emmy claim a role

that said? it reminds me heavily as someone in ToS who's mafia claiming to be a Survivor (someone who is able to guard at night, and wins just by staying alive)

in and of that, because the mafia won't kill one of their own, the mafioso can intentionally not kill someone and say "i was attacked by the mafia" and whatnot


i'm sticking with my emmy vote.

Sorry, did you end up seeing that she claimed cop? I see what you mean about her original claim, but I feel like we probably shouldn't vote out an un-counterclaimed cop if at all possible.

 

[Trebek]

oh god i started reading that and thought the bolds were votes and got so confused

 

[Keldeo]

Hi Jack I would like to vote the mafia

 

[RNP]

Sorry, did you end up seeing that she claimed cop? I see what you mean about her original claim, but I feel like we probably shouldn't vote out an un-counterclaimed cop if at all possible.

why tf would a legit cop counterclaim, that'd fuck their whole game up. probably a mafia member was like "hey that role claim is fucking insane maybe just go with a cop claim to bait out the real cop for Murdering purposes"

 

[rari_teh]

Sorry, did you end up seeing that she claimed cop? I see what you mean about her original claim, but I feel like we probably shouldn't vote out an un-counterclaimed cop if at all possible.

why tf would a legit cop counterclaim, that'd fuck their whole game up. probably a mafia member was like "hey that role claim is fucking insane maybe just go with a cop claim to bait out the real cop for Murdering purposes"

’tis a plausible theory, ngl, though too wifomy for my tastes
might reassess later given the right (or wrong?) circumstances

 

[Trebek]

this is a really solvy question imo

i kinda don't get it but it still feels solvy lmfao.

Basically, i wanted to try and use herbes knowledge to mechclear you while giving maf as little information as possible.

]

i’m still unsure how many grains of salt i am attributing to blu’s alienspec of emmy, but it does lead me to believe that if it isn’t emmy, that there is an alien somewhere else

i don't really agree with this because the alien-assistant role is so like, left-field

idk. the way i was looking at it was that alien-assistant was just as likely to appear as alien itself, which is why i reacted the way i did to blu being so adamant about alien