Cats (2019) Mafia

[I liek Squirtles]

Hi! and sorry for interrupting the herbe discussion,,

 

[mewtini]

king ils has christened page 101

Well, if she's town, they couldn't be sure of nightkilling her right now since there could be a doctor around, right? That, to me, provides the missing reasoning behind mafia Herbe's claim.

oh i'm a fool. sorry, i just really did not think about that, am slow right now. i'm in agreement now :')))

 

[Keldeo]

Hey ILS!

I think the current wagons are Mr. Ultracool and Tofu (going back to do a count now) - I know you said Mr. Ultracool is null, but it would be great to get any more detailed thoughts on him, if you have them? Also, do you have any thoughts on Tofu alone or is she sort of lumped in with thinking VM is town?

 

[I liek Squirtles]

I am going to bed rn but I'll provide those ASAP

 

[mewtini]

btw why is it called fishing brothers... is the implication that the guys who give out fishing rods in Pokemon are capable of killing

i love keldeo

it’s mostly that, while your posts are very effective in moving the conversation forward and making people talk – which is great – as others pointed out, I don’t think you’d behave much differently as mafia?
and like. while I feel good about most of your posts, there were some things that gave me a little pause, trebekkening aside? like for example when I was pushing against Emmy’s fakeclaim you seemed very adamant on letting that one pass – but then again turns out that Emmy is (probably) just a cop, so I don’t know what mafia!you would gain from letting Emmy slide either

first sentence: keldeo gives me the same pause. i think that the important thing is mostly to figure out like ... where his guidance is actually leading, and if that looks like it's a good place or not. right now i feel like it is (need to iso him still, that's what i was gonna do before i had to leave)

the rest of it - i didn't really read it as him letting it pass, i thought it was him just not wanting to go into like. linkspec and outright pressuring her? need to reread

why tf would a legit cop counterclaim, that'd fuck their whole game up. probably a mafia member was like "hey that role claim is fucking insane maybe just go with a cop claim to bait out the real cop for Murdering purposes"

this has been handled already but to reiterate. aiui counterclaiming is part of the Correct Play because it reveals mafia, which is always the first priority; if emmy gets counterclaimed, she's likely mafia, we lynch her. cop gets killed the night after (well, hopefully healed) but at least we're down a wolf

idk. the way i was looking at it was that alien-assistant was just as likely to appear as alien itself

thanks for clarifying. i kind of disagree tbh especially where as things stand, we have 6 mafia and everyone else is either town or 3p - an alien-assistant role feels like it cuts into that a bit too much to me?

I guess that begs the question of why Emmy first claimed under so little pressure but I'm like, okay with the answer to that being /shrug

this is also my main question around that whole roleclaim but i genuinely am kind of just thinking that's how she is. and like. this is the point of hoping for counterclaims to come out if they exist

It's jokey, but it comes well after the whole alien debacle. Trying to halt discussion on Emmy's identity as cop seems as if he's trying to change the topic at hand and have folks eventually forget about her. In case she is the real cop, and Emmy is out of sight out of mind, she proves an easy target for the mafia. It's late, and I'm sure I misinterpreted something because of the hour, but his pigeonholing on Emmy rubs me a really bad way.

honestly i really agree with this and i'm just so glad that someone else got irked by this particular post
blu is tricky for me because he was a big toneread for me and he just felt SO pure d1 but something about his alien posting (not the theory existing itself, but the way in which he did it) does not sit right with me because, if i read it with w!blu in mind, it's a way to incite panic and funnel it into getting a cop lynched (especially when he didn't tinfoil it)

i'm trusting bfree for now though on that front

 

[mewtini]

i wouldn't say i actually scumread bluwiikoon at the moment just to be clear, i just feel vindicated that that post pinged someone else :p

 

[Keldeo]

Yeah I vibe strongly with feeling weird about the Blu alien thing, but if Butterfree says it should be let go, I'm gonna let it go for now.

Also yeah - rari, what I was getting at about Emmy's original claim was not disagreement with your pressing it (I was also skeptical of it) but disagreement with the ways in which you went about it. Because like... it's not barred by the rules, but I semi-strongly feel that like, links and parts of role PMs, similarly to online times, aren't really fair game to speculate about because they aren't "part of the game," at least not as much as posts or actions.

Also also, given Emmy being town as an assumption, Rari's stubborn treatment of Emmy's original claim was like... I don't really see a mafia them going after someone they know to be town in that way? It was the like, visceral reaction of "oh your claim is so fake" specifically that I see as kind of hard to fake, like their one kind of melodramatic "oh snap, I can't unsee that" post in TVT.

 

[Trebek]

idk. the way i was looking at it was that alien-assistant was just as likely to appear as alien itself

thanks for clarifying. i kind of disagree tbh especially where as things stand, we have 6 mafia and everyone else is either town or 3p - an alien-assistant role feels like it cuts into that a bit too much to me?

thats valid tbh. i think im just biased bc my tvt experience was lurking/talking with you, who happened to have that role.

i do still think that if an alien-assistant appears, it's likely to be blu. im not using that as an excuse to not think of other possibilities tho

 

[mewtini]

more keldeo thoughts before i iso some people
i think we need to be wary of actually suspecting him just because "his play could be NAI" and because we're scared of his wolf game, especially when consensus has been that he's playing exactly as he did in tvtropes. on my gut/due to some subtleties of his tone i feel like he's probably just town and i think he could be doing far less in terms of giving insight, etc, and still be just as towny-looking

like has he actually done anything that makes him look worse than others, aside from play a game that could hypothetically be similar to a playstyle that apparently none of us know about? idk. i don't think i ever vote keldeo today and i don't really want him to be the first step in a process of elimination/PoE when he's immensely useful as town and, in particular, when i don't actually scumread him above other people yet

and now i will read back

 

[mewtini]

i think im just biased bc my tvt experience was lurking/talking with you, who happened to have that role.

also remember that i got doubted a lot for claiming that role tbh. a lot of people read it as purely opportunistic, which is what - combined with this game's size/the ramifications such a role has on setup - makes me think that it's a semi-rare role

if blu is indeed alien-assistant 2.0 i'll just leave the game though

 

[Keldeo]

Also yeah - rari, what I was getting at about Emmy's original claim was not disagreement with your pressing it (I was also skeptical of it) but disagreement with the ways in which you went about it. Because like... it's not barred by the rules, but I semi-strongly feel that like, links and parts of role PMs, similarly to online times, aren't really fair game to speculate about because they aren't "part of the game," at least not as much as posts or actions.
[/QUOTE
Pardon the weird comparison but how I think of it is like, if we were actually a group of cats discussing trying to find the evil cats, there's no real corresponding reasoning to "when the forum says they were last online" or "what page their role PM links to", haha

I recognize that I might have a minority opinion here and again that this isn't actually barred by any rules formally, so.

 

[mewtini]

F for the missing bracket in kel's quote

 

[Trebek]

i think im just biased bc my tvt experience was lurking/talking with you, who happened to have that role.

also remember that i got doubted a lot for claiming that role tbh. a lot of people read it as purely opportunistic, which is what - combined with this game's size/the ramifications such a role has on setup - makes me think that it's a semi-rare role

if blu is indeed alien-assistant 2.0 i'll just leave the game though

yeah. my initial Thoughts about this weren't necessarily thoughts about how likely the role was to appear - just Thoughts about what would happen if the role existed.

 

[mewtini]

more keldeo thoughts before i iso some people
i think we need to be wary of actually suspecting him just because "his play could be NAI" and because we're scared of his wolf game, especially when consensus has been that he's playing exactly as he did in tvtropes. on my gut/due to some subtleties of his tone i feel like he's probably just town and i think he could be doing far less in terms of giving insight, etc, and still be just as towny-looking

like has he actually done anything that makes him look worse than others, aside from play a game that could hypothetically be similar to a playstyle that apparently none of us know about? idk. i don't think i ever vote keldeo today and i don't really want him to be the first step in a process of elimination/PoE when he's immensely useful as town and, in particular, when i don't actually scumread him above other people yet

and now i will read back

i know that he's like. a good player obviously. but i think it's meh to hold him to the standard of the Flawless Wolf Player that we think he could be as opposed to just focusing on what he's trying to push us towards

 

[Keldeo]

Also just my 2c, I've never seen alien assistant before, and in a game starting with only 10 people who couldn't win with mafia, it does seem weird for there to be two third parties there. Like, there'd be only 8 townies of 14.

I do agree that the possibility popping up for Trebek is mildly solve-y seeming.

 

[mewtini]

I've never seen alien assistant before

yes you have! me! :D

 

[Trebek]

yeah, in retrospect my initial read was heavily biased by the fact that that i basically experienced tvt entirely vicariously through mewt. i dont want to disregard it in the case that blu comes back into the spotlight, but i'm totally happy to put that Thought in cryogenics for now

 

[Keldeo]

(before TVTropes, I mean)

more keldeo thoughts before i iso some people
i think we need to be wary of actually suspecting him just because "his play could be NAI" and because we're scared of his wolf game, especially when consensus has been that he's playing exactly as he did in tvtropes. on my gut/due to some subtleties of his tone i feel like he's probably just town and i think he could be doing far less in terms of giving insight, etc, and still be just as towny-looking

like has he actually done anything that makes him look worse than others, aside from play a game that could hypothetically be similar to a playstyle that apparently none of us know about? idk. i don't think i ever vote keldeo today and i don't really want him to be the first step in a process of elimination/PoE when he's immensely useful as town and, in particular, when i don't actually scumread him above other people yet

and now i will read back

i know that he's like. a good player obviously. but i think it's meh to hold him to the standard of the Flawless Wolf Player that we think he could be as opposed to just focusing on what he's trying to push us towards

If it helps for context, Butterfree, qva, Mist, and RNP have seen my mafia game fairly recently, and MP7 very recently, and I snowed at least Butterfree and MP7 fairly well.

I am actually going to go read Mr. Ultracool and reread EOD1 now so I can get sleep before waking up for EOD, haha

 

[Keldeo]

ultracool (8): VM, keldeo, tofu, rari, herbe, trebek, skylar, mewtini
tofu (2): emmy, blu
Emmy (1): rnp
Blu (1): ILS

Hmm... this is a weird wagon formation. I did not realize it was that many on Ultracool, with only Butterfree and semi-mewtini that I can remember defending him.

tbh if I color it in it seems mostly pure (Herbe and Trebek stick out there), but Mr. Ultracool is like, the lurky type that I can imagine active townies all dogpiling, almost regardless of his alignment.

 

[mewtini]

oh jeez wtf
i've been keeping count but didn't realize it was that uh. dire or stacked of a situation.
much to think about