Death Penalty

[opaltiger]

I'd care if my grandparents and mother were wrongly executed, but I'm not close to anyone else. They're almost strangers to me.

So presumably that would change your mind about the death penalty?

 

[PK]

I'd care if my grandparents and mother were wrongly executed, but I'm not close to anyone else. They're almost strangers to me.

so because you don't know them, it's okay for them to die?

 

[Michi]

So presumably that would change your mind about the death penalty?

No. I would still want it to be in practice, just with safer methods of proving innocence.

No, PK, and because I DO does not mean it's not OK for them to die IF THEY ARE GUILTY.
If my mom murdered someone, yeah I'd be sad she'd be executed but hey, what makes her different from person X's Dad or Grandmother?

 

[PK]

No. I would still want it to be in practice, just with safer methods of proving innocence.

so let me get this straight: until innocent people that you care about are murdered wrongly by the government, you don't care if other people are?

Wow.

just... wow.

edit: the second part makes no sense whatsoever. The whole point is that they're INNOCENT.

 

[Michi]

so let me get this straight: until innocent people that you care about are murdered wrongly by the government, you don't care if other people are?

Wow.

just... wow.

No, I don't care ountil ANYONE is proven innocent after execution, and even then I'd only want better ways to prove someone's guilt or innocence.

 

[opaltiger]

No. I would still want it to be in practice, just with safer methods of proving innocence.

I don't believe you.

Apart from that, you've missed the point entirely. There is no foolproof method. Somewhere, some time, someone's mother will be put to death for a crime she didn't commit. And that is why I am and will always be opposed to the death penalty.

I think I will stop now. In some way I think you don't quite understand what you're saying, and I can only hope you will look back at this thread in horror one day.

 

[PK]

No, I don't care ountil ANYONE is proven innocent after execution, and even then I'd only want better ways to prove someone's guilt or innocence.

there's this nifty idea called "innocent until proven guilty", try it some time

also: i once again bring up the notion that you only want these nebulous "better ways" after someone you care about is murdered by the government

 

[Aisling]

You would care? But that goes against what you just said, man.

Lemmie quote it before you edit it or something:

Opal, a thousand would have a rather small chance of moving me at all, admittedly.

I'd care if my grandparents and mother were wrongly executed, but I'm not close to anyone else. They're almost strangers to me.

edit: I just got ninja'd but whatever :T
Anyway, I'm out I guess, because

Until you can actually justify your sentiment in a tangible way (and counter the reasons to not have a death penalty!) then you've lost. The argument was whether or not the death penalty should be in practice. We know what your view point is; we're not asking for you to repeat it to us over and over. You can have a viewpoint and not think it should be law. We're asking you for a real reason.

Somebody let me know when someone else comes in here with an actual argument I guess

 

[Butterfree]

One person vs. tens or hundreds of thousands isn't worth destroying one of the oldest practices of punishment that still works.

This is a logical fallacy called appeal to tradition.

Yes, because it's not just me who wants it;

Appeal to popularity

it rids the world of a vicious murderer and makes Earth a safer place

So does incarcerating them for life. You can't compare the death penalty to letting them all walk free; that's not what anybody is proposing as the alternative. (Which, incidentally, is called a strawman argument.)

and the chance of it ever being an innocent person are insignificant.

Of course it's not insignificant. We're talking about the lives of actual, innocent people. Force-feeding people nuts is very unlikely to kill them since only a few people have a nut allergy, but that doesn't mean force-feeding people nuts en masse, knowing some of them may be allergic to nuts, is in any way justifiable. Seriously, is this in any way getting through?

 

[Michi]

I mean I'd care as in "Oh, bummer" not as is "THE DEATH PENALTY SHOULD BE ABOLISHED BECAUSE MY MOM WAS WRONGLY EXECUTED" and that is ANYONE was found to be innocent after executed, I would want somehow better ways of proving innocence.
What would you all want if someone randomly killed your best friend or parent?

 

[Autumn]

What would you all want if someone randomly killed your best friend or parent?

I wouldn't want to see the murderer killed, because I don't want that and I doubt my friend/parent would want them either.

For me, morals supersede personal connections. My morals state that the death penalty is inherently wrong. :/

 

[PK]

I mean I'd care as in "Oh, bummer" not as is "THE DEATH PENALTY SHOULD BE ABOLISHED BECAUSE MY MOM WAS WRONGLY EXECUTED" and that is ANYONE was found to be innocent after executed, I would want somehow better ways of proving innocence.
What would you all want if someone randomly killed your best friend or parent?

just because you can't recognize the value of human life doesn't mean we all can't.

EDIT: also, wouldn't want them dead. Two wrongs does not make a right.

 

[Michi]

Of course it's not insignificant. We're talking about the lives of actual, innocent people. Force-feeding people nuts is very unlikely to kill them since only a few people have a nut allergy, but that doesn't mean force-feeding people nuts en masse, knowing some of them may be allergic to nuts, is in any way justifiable.

How is this in any way akin to executing murders??? They murdered a person, the random people you have chosen to feed nuts have not been proven to be murderers by a jury. They're just random people.

 

[PK]

How is this in any way akin to executing murders??? They murdered a person, the random people you have chosen to feed nuts have not been proven to be murderers by a jury. They're just random people.

i don't know how i can drill this into your head:

MURDERERS ARE STILL HUMAN BEINGS.

 

[Michi]

I wouldn't want to see the murderer killed, because I don't want that and I doubt my friend/parent would want them either.

For me, morals supersede personal connections. My morals state that the death penalty is inherently wrong. :/

And mine say it is inherently right for a murderer to be executed; as I said before, it is ultimately a question of morality.

AN EYE FOR AN EYE.

The oldest law, the longest regarded priciple for many people, and something even used in cases of killings in many religions like Christianity.

 

[surskitty]

AN EYE FOR AN EYE.

... makes the whole world blind.

 

[PK]

And mine say it is inherently right for a murderer to be executed; as I said before, it is ultimately a question of morality.

AN EYE FOR AN EYE.

The oldest law, the longest regarded priciple for many people, and something even used in cases of killings in many religions like Christianity.

oh, okay. So if somebody steals my stuff, i can steal from him, too? It's totally okay to do whatever you want, so long as somebody does it to you first? It's not okay to lower yourself to their level.

Also: So Christianity says it's okay. yeah, because nobody's ever murdered somebody over religion.

Edits: just because something's old doesn't mean it's right. Genital mutilation has been practiced for centuries is some parts of africa- does this make it okay?

 

[Aisling]

something even used in cases of killings in many religions like Christianity.

Isn't bullshit like that the reason you're an atheist though? Because they have bullshit reasons for killing people?

also because IRC doesn't believe me-

I may be Atheist, but

 

[1. Luftballon]

And mine say it is inherently right for a murderer to be executed; as I said before, it is ultimately a question of morality.

AN EYE FOR AN EYE.

The oldest law, the longest regarded priciple for many people, and something even used in cases of killings in many religions like Christianity.

and by the way, the original was intended only for people within the same class.

and wasn't actually invoked the way people think it was.

 

[Michi]

Isn't bullshit like that the reason you're an atheist though?

No, this happens to be the one thing from Christianity I don't see as bullshit.