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Does a God of ANY KIND exist?

I'm not saying the gods are present in the real universe, only that they exist (as concepts if nothing else)

So, what, you think they exist... yet somehow are in another universe completely separate from us? Wow, bang up job there, God. Distance yourself from humankind even more, why don't ya.

This may be more accurate, but what i was trying to get was that the gods were created my man and therefore exist as fictional characters

Wait, are you saying that if we imagine something, it suddenly pops into existence somewhere? What kind of BS is that? Either show some proof of this or you're full of it.

Firstly, I do not hold half of what you said about god to be true (in particular hell)
Secondly I have no issue with the 'objectivly recorded, studied and tested scienific theory'. I have a problem with the bit where on almost no evidence a major group of animals turned into another major group of animals.

You haven't even read a single scientific journal, have you? There is more than enough evidence to prove that evolution is a plausible theory.

P.S anyone who gets picky over the words I used you will get ignored

Just like a real Bible thumper. Believe what you say or face the consequences. If you're in a Debating Hall, you better be ready to defend your points logically, not this horse shit of having things your way or else you'll ignore even further reason. Rather ironic when you don't even understand the basic concept of evolution that can even be witnessed under a microscope as viruses mutate. Why do you think flu vaccines have to be rotated every year? It's not like viruses have the brain capacity to think and adjust their simple bodies to take on a deadly force.

Oh, and why have you not countered the point of slavery in the Bible?
 
So, what, you think they exist... yet somehow are in another universe completely separate from us? Wow, bang up job there, God. Distance yourself from humankind even more, why don't ya.

Fictional gods exist as ideas in people's heads

Wait, are you saying that if we imagine something, it suddenly pops into existence somewhere? What kind of BS is that? Either show some proof of this or you're full of it.

See above

You haven't even read a single scientific journal, have you? There is more than enough evidence to prove that evolution is a plausible theory.

I accept part of it, it's just there are limits of how far evolution can be pushed and seem credeble, and for me it's crossed the line

Just like a real Bible thumper. Believe what you say or face the consequences. If you're in a Debating Hall, you better be ready to defend your points logically, not this horse shit of having things your way or else you'll ignore even further reason. Rather ironic when you don't even understand the basic concept of evolution that can even be witnessed under a microscope as viruses mutate. Why do you think flu vaccines have to be rotated every year? It's not like viruses have the brain capacity to think and adjust their simple bodies to take on a deadly force.

What I wanted was people not to decide my ideas are wrong because I don't use the 'correct sientific terminoligy'. I don't care if you want to counter my points, only if you use my language as an excuse.

Oh, and why have you not countered the point of slavery in the Bible?

Because it's irrelevant at this moment
 
Clearly a god exists. At the very least there are gods man has invented.
P.S anyone who gets picky over the words I used you will get ignored
Should we all ignore you, then, as you are getting picky over the wording of the thread title?

I however feel there is a real God (as well), mostly because the evolution of ALL life from single celled organisms seems just a little far-feched to me.
Please explain how a being with the magical ability to do whatever it wishes, regardless of any physical laws and without needing any sort of input, is not far-fetched.

Nothing in the universe happens for free.


Evolution was proposed because it reasonably explains observed patterns in speciation, the fossil record, etc. "God did it" does not explain anything; it only raises questions of how a being could violate every law of reality we have ever known.

Secondly I have no issue with the 'objectivly recorded, studied and tested scienific theory'. I have a problem with the bit where on almost no evidence a major group of animals turned into another major group of animals.
That evidence probably doesn't exist because it never happened. Conveniently, nobody claims it ever happened, either. The only people who bring up "fish -> goat" are creationists who don't understand evolution and can only argue by tossing out red herrings.
 
Thanks for ignoring my post, Time Psyduck. It's not like I put in a noticeable amount of time trying to get my post as consistent and understandable as possible so that you could read it and perhaps grasp evolution a bit more thoroughly than what can be summed up as, "jellyfish turns into cat".

Also, please explain where evolution has crossed the line, and how God being a total dick, allowing the Holocaust (and the World Wars in general), massive natural disasters, and deadly pandemics like the Black Death and AIDS to spread, not to mention general disregard for the laws of physics and reality in general, is not crossing the line regarding his credibility
 
I however feel there is a real God (as well), mostly because the evolution of ALL life from single celled organisms seems just a little far-feched to me.
tbh the idea that we all come from two people made of mud who basically committed incest with each other to infinity is more far-fetched to me.

Secondly I have no issue with the 'objectivly recorded, studied and tested scienific theory'. I have a problem with the bit where on almost no evidence a major group of animals turned into another major group of animals.
This is not what evolution is.

Because it's irrelevant at this moment
It is to the discussion about Evolution but this is a general Religion thread so if you could justify the Bible's condoning of slavery that'd be swell.

Do I have to post the Giant Chick Parody again.

EDIT: And yeah, things like the Holocaust I suppose you can justify with 'hurrdurr He gave humans the ability to choose' (though that'd make God a dick for sacrificing all of the people who died) but pandemics are on my mind too. Why'd he send them, just to be annoying?
 
a major group of animals did not turn into another major group of animals. GUESS WHAT the phyla didn't exist before, you know, the creatures evolved in completely separate directions.

THEN the phyla sort of happened and stuff. AND IT GOES ON AND ON until species level. At first there would ONLY have been species and then as it got larger blah blah blah.
 
I think you need to dumb that down further, as in:

You have a monkey.
Sometimes the monkey gives birth to a slightly different baby monkey.
Some of these different baby monkeys survive better with their slightly different traits.
They are the only ones that live on.
You now have a monkey.
Sometimes the monkey gives birth to a slightly different baby monkey.
Some of these different baby monkeys survive better with their slightly different traits.
They are the only ones that live on.
You now have a monkey.
Sometimes the monkey gives birth to a slightly different baby monkey.
Some of these different baby monkeys survive better with their slightly different traits.
They are the only ones that live on.
You now have a monkey.
Sometimes the monkey gives birth to a slightly different baby monkey.
Some of these different baby monkeys survive better with their slightly different traits.
They are the only ones that live on.
You now have a humanoid thing.
Sometimes the humanoid thing gives birth to a slightly different baby humanoid thing.
Some of these different baby humanoid things survive better with their slightly different traits.
They are the only ones that live on.
You now have a humanoid thing.
Sometimes the humanoid thing gives birth to a slightly different baby humanoid thing.
Some of these different baby humanoid things survive better with their slightly different traits.
They are the only ones that live on.
You now have a humanoid thing.
Sometimes the humanoid thing gives birth to a slightly different baby humanoid thing.
Some of these different baby humanoid things survive better with their slightly different traits.
They are the only ones that live on.
You now have a humanoid thing.
Sometimes the caveman gives birth to a slightly different baby caveman.
Some of these different baby cavemen survive better with their slightly different traits.
They are the only ones that live on.
You now have cavemen.
 
I believe God exhist yes, even if my view on the matter is different. Yes I beliee he's all knowing and all powerful, but I also believe he didn't completely create everything. I believe he made the universe yes, but as for lifeforms he made one basic version of each lifeform and allowed it to "evolve" in the sense that they are the same creature, but with a few canges. Like for example creting one species of dog which he allowed to "evolve" over time into new species of dogs.
This may be a bit of an abstract question, but why do you believe in something with no scientific backing? And I ask this purely out of curiosity, as I think the concept of faith is fascinating.
 
There MAY be a God. MAY. Just that no one can prove it, therefore I believe that there is none right now. But when someone can give me a perfectly logical, reasonable, and evidence-backed proof, I'll believe there's a God. But I don't care if you believe that there is one or not, I'm still going to treat you the same way I do to other people when I learn about their religion.
 
Should we all ignore you, then, as you are getting picky over the wording of the thread title?

Feel free

Please explain how a being with the magical ability to do whatever it wishes, regardless of any physical laws and without needing any sort of input, is not far-fetched.

It may not be, and I never said it was. I personally feel that it makes more sense than a single celleded organism being able to (eventually, through many other forms) turn into a human

Nothing in the universe happens for free.

If God exists, he wouldn't technically be in the universe as he created it

Evolution was proposed because it reasonably explains observed patterns in speciation, the fossil record, etc. "God did it" does not explain anything; it only raises questions of how a being could violate every law of reality we have ever known.

So it makes sense to a lot of people does it? It partly does to me, however at kingdom/phyla/class level evolution lacks much evidence. This is the bit I am sceptical of.

That evidence probably doesn't exist because it never happened. Conveniently, nobody claims it ever happened, either. The only people who bring up "fish -> goat" are creationists who don't understand evolution and can only argue by tossing out red herrings.

What? No evidence that amphibians came from fish? I may have over-simplifed it a bit but this is what I'm trying to get at.

Thanks for ignoring my post, Time Psyduck. It's not like I put in a noticeable amount of time trying to get my post as consistent and understandable as possible so that you could read it and perhaps grasp evolution a bit more thoroughly than what can be summed up as, "jellyfish turns into cat".

Sorry, was in a rush and couldn't (and still can't) think how to respond. Also, please see above

Also, please explain where evolution has crossed the line, and how God being a total dick, allowing the Holocaust (and the World Wars in general), massive natural disasters, and deadly pandemics like the Black Death and AIDS to spread, not to mention general disregard for the laws of physics and reality in general, is not crossing the line regarding his credibility

Evolution at the level of classes and higher have very little evidence and seem rather increadible. God allows suffering, he does not cause it. I can explain all this (probably not very well) but then I'd end up accused of preaching or something. (In short God is giving humanity a chance to prove we don't need him. Good job human government seems to be doing.[/QUOTE]

tbh the idea that we all come from two people made of mud who basically committed incest with each other to infinity is more far-fetched to me.

Wheras genetic changes created all life forms is more far-feched to me. What tis means is we're different, and if you call me an idiot/stupid/wrong that makes you (nearly) as bad as the fundamentalists who think the earth was made in 6 days

It is to the discussion about Evolution but this is a general Religion thread so if you could justify the Bible's condoning of slavery that'd be swell.

It was totally unrelated to anything else i'd said previously. If you were talking about say, Germany's politics and then made one random point on Italian art would it be relevent?

Do I have to post the Giant Chick Parody again.
?

EDIT: And yeah, things like the Holocaust I suppose you can justify with 'hurrdurr He gave humans the ability to choose' (though that'd make God a dick for sacrificing all of the people who died) but pandemics are on my mind too. Why'd he send them, just to be annoying?

It seems likley the viri were present before Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden, however they were 'perfect' (for their purpose, which was to serve god with intelligence and free will) and so would have had imunnity to them. Bear in mind i'm speculating here.

I think you need to dumb that down further, as in:

You have a monkey.
Sometimes the monkey gives birth to a slightly different baby monkey.
Some of these different baby monkeys survive better with their slightly different traits.
They are the only ones that live on.
You now have a monkey.
Sometimes the monkey gives birth to a slightly different baby monkey.
Some of these different baby monkeys survive better with their slightly different traits.
They are the only ones that live on.
You now have a monkey.
Sometimes the monkey gives birth to a slightly different baby monkey.
Some of these different baby monkeys survive better with their slightly different traits.
They are the only ones that live on.
You now have a monkey.
Sometimes the monkey gives birth to a slightly different baby monkey.
Some of these different baby monkeys survive better with their slightly different traits.
They are the only ones that live on.
You now have a humanoid thing.
Sometimes the humanoid thing gives birth to a slightly different baby humanoid thing.
Some of these different baby humanoid things survive better with their slightly different traits.
They are the only ones that live on.
You now have a humanoid thing.
Sometimes the humanoid thing gives birth to a slightly different baby humanoid thing.
Some of these different baby humanoid things survive better with their slightly different traits.
They are the only ones that live on.
You now have a humanoid thing.
Sometimes the humanoid thing gives birth to a slightly different baby humanoid thing.
Some of these different baby humanoid things survive better with their slightly different traits.
They are the only ones that live on.
You now have a humanoid thing.
Sometimes the caveman gives birth to a slightly different baby caveman.
Some of these different baby cavemen survive better with their slightly different traits.
They are the only ones that live on.
You now have cavemen.

By this reasoning, there should be transitional forms all over the place. If you then use punctuated equilibrium as an answer to this you are left with the need for huge genetic leaps. This is what seems farfeched to me
 
a major group of animals did not turn into another major group of animals. GUESS WHAT the phyla didn't exist before, you know, the creatures evolved in completely separate directions.

THEN the phyla sort of happened and stuff. AND IT GOES ON AND ON until species level. At first there would ONLY have been species and then as it got larger blah blah blah.

There are examples of "intermediate" forms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species

We call them "ring species" and hey guess what, that could easily have happened to us, it just didn't so we think we're further away from our chimp cousins than we really are.
 
Evolution at the level of classes and higher have very little evidence and seem rather increadible. God allows suffering, he does not cause it. I can explain all this (probably not very well) but then I'd end up accused of preaching or something. (In short God is giving humanity a chance to prove we don't need him. Good job human government seems to be doing.

... What?
Let me get this straight; everything was created by God, rite?

World Wars are 'allowed' by him then, I guess, I mean he gave us free will or something, despite the fact omniscience seems to create a paradox concerning this, and if it is the omniscient route then he did inadvertently cause it (not to mention had no reason to throw Adam and Eve out in the first place, as he knew it'd happen) but whatever.

But then there're two things wrong.
1. Natural disasters, especially in the areas of earthquakes and volcanoes which are caused by the way tectonic plates move, and thus are due to how the planet was created, and the point of natural disasters is that nature made them, meaning that God did make the world flawed enough for that to happen.
2. He must have created the microorganisms that caused the two pandemics I mentioned, Black Death and AIDS. How else would they have come to being? Definitely not the way scientists claim our microscopic ancestors came into being, no, I mean, God made everything!
Therefore, God causes suffering.

Not to mention the fact that, even if my argument is redundant and flawed or whatever, you have to remember one thing.

Your God is allowing the suffering of millions of people, his own creations, every day, for no reason other than prove how awesome we are. What the hell!?

Wheras genetic changes created all life forms is more far-feched to me. What tis means is we're different, and if you call me an idiot/stupid/wrong that makes you (nearly) as bad as the fundamentalists who think the earth was made in 6 days

... Um, what? Did you not read any of my posts? I've already stated that the beardy man in the sky is ridiculous for numerous reasons. Saying that you're wrong in a debating forum, because you aren't backing up your points and seem to be saying that a highly researched and supported theory is more far fetched than a beardy man creating the world from nothingness for nothing more than a whim of boredom, doesn't make us as bad as fundamentalists, it makes us debaters and rational thinkers.

It seems likley the viri were present before Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden, however they were 'perfect' (for their purpose, which was to serve god with intelligence and free will) and so would have had imunnity to them. Bear in mind i'm speculating here.

... But God created everything, didn't he? How could they have existed before he came along and made everything? Therefore God created all pandemics, and either he's updating his microscopic death machines every year, meaning we have to come up with a new vaccines every year, or evolution is taking place, and I don't see why it's far-fetched for microbes but not for larger organisms.
 
It may not be, and I never said it was. I personally feel that it makes more sense than a single celleded organism being able to (eventually, through many other forms) turn into a human
In this light, that's even more questionable: every human being starts out as a single cell, a zygote.

What is the problem? Creatures adapt and improve. There are all sorts of strange intermediate forms between levels of organisms that most people think of as vastly different. Even single-cellular organisms aren't separated from multi-cellular organisms by a huge gulf: there is, for example, a very small animal called a hydra that has only a layer of skin around a layer of stomach. The nervous "system" is merely a simple network of nerve cells that conducts impulses around its body. That's pretty much all it has.

Why is it so difficult to imagine that small improvements over billions of years could create complex organisms?

And why is it easier to believe in an arbitrary power that can do anything for no good reason, rather than the power of life which you see all the time?

So it makes sense to a lot of people does it? It partly does to me, however at kingdom/phyla/class level evolution lacks much evidence. This is the bit I am sceptical of.
What evidence do you want? New species occur occasionally, and there is a fragmented fossil record, but massive evolutions like developing a new limb or skeletal structure aren't something we can just encourage to happen overnight in a lab.

I am also curious that you demand mountains of evidence from a relatively young theory that merely proposes that life adapts, but you find it easy to just believe in a being that has superpowers. I don't get it. You wouldn't believe me if I said I had a power as mundane as telekinesis, and you don't believe that nature can change on its own, but you will cheerfully accept a being that came from nowhere and can change anything with hardly a thought.

I don't know that you are quite grasping the severity of what you propose here.

Evolution at the level of classes and higher have very little evidence and seem rather increadible.
What do you want?

Humans grow in the womb with a tail, which is later absorbed into the lower back. A lot of snakes, whales, dolphins, etc. develop vestigial hind legs. Marsupials have a vestigial organ used for breaking through eggshells, even though they are born live.

talk.origins has a massively detailed list of evidence for macroevolution, including in many cases a hypothetical discovery that could destroy the particular evidence or evolution as a whole. Science is meant to be falsifiable, which means that everything we propose should have some conceptual plausible way to be proven false.

I don't expect you to read it all, of course; that would hardly be fair. The point is that evidence exists, and that evolution has been studied far more in-depth that simply noticing cats and dogs both have four legs and going "welp I guess they're related".

Wheras genetic changes created all life forms is more far-feched to me.
Where did God come from?
What is his energy source?
How does his body work?
Where does he reside?
How do his powers work?
Where did his intelligence come from?

By this reasoning, there should be transitional forms all over the place.
I don't think "transitional form" really means anything. Purple is not a "transitional color" between red and blue; it's just a color. How do you know humans aren't merely a transitional form between an ape ancestor and something entirely new?

Please also note that fossils are a fairly rare occurrence in the grand scheme of ecology.

However, given the above, there are in fact intermediate forms. This section also names some potential finds which could deal serious blows to our current understanding of evolution, such as a transitional bird/mammal form or fossils out of order; none such has been found.

If you then use punctuated equilibrium as an answer to this you are left with the need for huge genetic leaps. This is what seems farfeched to me
Chemistry is full of catalysts; why not biology?
 
By this reasoning, there should be transitional forms all over the place.

To use an oft-repeated example: you have species A and B. Someone demands a transitional fossil between them, which is later found as species C. Said someone will now demand transitional fossils between A and C, and between C and B.

How "there are no transitional forms!" is meant to constitute a good argument I haven't the faintest idea.

However, if you want intermediate fossils between, say, groups of animals that are alive today, those certainly exist (an easy example is Archaeopteryx at the transition from reptile to bird). Please stop spouting this argument because, first of all, it isn't much of an argument since the moment a transitional fossil is found it stops being transitional and now demands two more, and secondly, there are many 'transitional' fossils.

edit: as for punctuated equilibrium, well, what we would regard as a huge change in an organism is not necessarily a huge genetic change. For example, duplicating existing parts of an organism - extra pairs of legs, vertebrae, whatever - is actually quite trivial and occurs relatively often.
 
I don't completely reject the possibility of existing any god, JUST because I like to keep my mind open. But I don't believe in any.
I don't like to discuss about this because, from my point of view the idea of existing an almighty being is completely stupid and makes no sense, so I would end up offending someone as I just did. Still I would like to say one thing about gods: If there is any, that mother f*cker sure likes vengeance.
 
Why do I believe it? Because it makes so much sense to me. If evolution were completely true, then I wanna know why we as humans haven't evoloved yet. There's a flaw in science right there.
You see the world? How many years old is it? Billions. For how many years has life existed? Billions. For how many years has evolution progressed? Billions. For how many years has the human kind existed? Few thousands. Give time time and you'll see humans evolving. We have less hair in our bodies than we did nine thousand years ago, we have smaller craniums than we had nine thousand years ago, we have higher intelligence than we did nine thousand years ago, we have weaker bodies than we did nine thousand years ago, the proof is all there.
 
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