Forum Revival TV Tropes Mafia Revival - D7

[Stryke]

Also, @Stryke , what was that about? It sounds suspiciously like a confirmation phrase for an action in the vein of "it's not me, it's you" and it came relatively unprompted. Was there a reason for that or an insider joke that I'm missing?

lol i knew someone was gonna ask about that. flipped a coin for who i should heal last night. it was between kokorico and VM, and since VM wasnt around at the time, i asked koko to call which side of the coin e wanted. probably wasnt necessary, but i wanted to do it anyway

 

[Mr. Ultracool]

Oh, thanks- that explains a lot about that. Tbh, what with the weird roles that have already been claimed, we should probably be more suspicious about weird comments. Who knows what might be an ability trigger?

 

[kyeugh]

i’m kind of meh about lynching mf. even if she flips scum i don’t think it really helps us much as far as finding the other wolves go. i’d be just as comfortable doing it later tbh. i sort of want to go after someone we can pull information out of. i guess i can go reread mawile’s iso later.

 

[mewtini]

i’m kind of meh about lynching mf. even if she flips scum i don’t think it really helps us much as far as finding the other wolves go. i’d be just as comfortable doing it later tbh.

i don't really get this tbh? what other leads do we have (let alone reads that are ... any more confirmed/likely to be scum than MF via copread)

 

[Keldeo]

I don't think there's much to be gained by hiding who's the cop after kokorico laid out why I definitely was the one who got the cop ability yesterday. I inspected Panini as town last night.

I think MF is pretty likely to flip mafia given rari's result and her radio silence starting yesterday. I agree that shrugging and lynching her today will limit the amount of information we can get out of the day, but I think we're gonna have to do it eventually given that there doesn't seem to be a vig, so why not today?

I don't think kyeugh is mafia with VM being town because she brought up an iffy result relating to VM but she's like, not really pushing VM for it? She's just talking about it, and I think that doesn't feel very agenda-ed. I have a similar but less strong town feeling with VM's post. Because I also don't see the agenda in altering kyeugh's result specifically that way (and when she hadn't claimed anything to do with the ability with the type of results that she had), I think it's possible that it could have been some sort of random or target-role-dependent info alteration, similar to Mawile's claim.

There was something (besides his claim) that made me think that Mawile was more likely out-group, but I don't remember right now, hehe. Also, assuming that Mawile was out-group and MF is in-group (which might be a large assumption), I want to look into who jumped on him after rari's result - with those assumptions, from an in-group mafia's point of view, Mawile could have been a townie who rari got a faulty result on for some reason, so lynching him would be way better than lynching MF.

@Herbe, can you tell us more about how your role worked? I'm just curious.

 

[rari_teh]

I don't think there's much to be gained by hiding who's the cop after kokorico laid out why I definitely was the one who got the cop ability yesterday.

It’s not you, it’s me!

Here we go to a merry round of kartoshka.

 

[Keldeo]

Here we go to a merry round of kartoshka.

No, it's not you, it's me! What do you think of, instead of swapping the cop ability around, swapping with someone else where there are questions about their role, or some uncertainty regarding their alignment, to attempt to confirm more people as town or clear certain things up? Like... maybe VM, or Ottercopter, or RNP or Mist?

Tangentially related, as the game goes on, I think it's important that we track when and why various people were confirmed town in case there is some mafia or third-party recruitment ability, or a godfather ability.

 

[mewtini]

I think MF is pretty likely to flip mafia given rari's result and her radio silence starting yesterday. I agree that shrugging and lynching her today will limit the amount of information we can get out of the day, but I think we're gonna have to do it eventually given that there doesn't seem to be a vig, so why not today?

agree, this is what i was feebly trying to say. also i see no reason why we have to just shrug while doing it! we can do it and also put on our deerstalkers, idk, but i think it's the farthest from a possible mislynch we can get right now

with those assumptions, from an in-group mafia's point of view, Mawile could have been a townie who rari got a faulty result on for some reason, so lynching him would be way better than lynching MF.

yeah. i keep thinking about this too, so i reread with that in mind.

rari claimed in 2931. mist/herbe were the first two to jump on a wagon (mist voted mawile in 2933, herbe went for MF two posts afterward for obvious reasons) but tbh i don't know how to read mist and i still think herbe has been acting very in-character for a lover role who'd been covering for knowing their partner's alignment. skylar voted mawile in 2939, and then there was a lull for a while

it's sort of hard to read though, i think, for multiple reasons. mawile already had suspicion thrown on him, so any townie had incentive to vote for him (the only thing getting in the way was herbe, i think, so some others - like me - did wait for some time to vote). on the other hand, as you said, it was an incredibly easy bandwagon for an in-group wolf to jump on

my main question is - do you think that we could glean anything from finding different treatments of MF/mawile, assuming that one is in-group and the other isn't? the cop confirmation is the same, and it isn't as if i think MF was anyone's strongly-established townread ... at least that's where my head is at

 

[mewtini]

the only thing getting in the way was herbe, i think, so some others - like me - did wait for some time to vote

slight amendment, there was also the conflicting strykeclaim that made things a bit confusing (at least for me lol)

 

[Keldeo]

my main question is - do you think that we could glean anything from finding different treatments of MF/mawile, assuming that one is in-group and the other isn't? the cop confirmation is the same, and it isn't as if i think MF was anyone's strongly-established townread ... at least that's where my head is at

No, yeah, I agree that like, voting Mawile over MF early yesterday doesn't make someone mafia because from a town POV there was not a ton in favor of one or the other. I think if MF is in-group mafia (big if, and big if true) there's definitely stuff that can be gained from analyzing her interactions and pushes.

 

[Ottercopter]

No, it's not you, it's me! What do you think of, instead of swapping the cop ability around, swapping with someone else where there are questions about their role, or some uncertainty regarding their alignment, to attempt to confirm more people as town or clear certain things up? Like... maybe VM, or Ottercopter, or RNP or Mist?

I don't think RNP is a good idea. If he's just blocking Stryke for his own amusement and not interested in anything we have to say, there's no guarantee he'll swap the power back later or not just vig someone on a whim.
If it gets passed to one of us, do we just keep the chain going, or pass it back to you? Just in case.

 

[mewtini]

I think if MF is in-group mafia (big if, and big if true) there's definitely stuff that can be gained from analyzing her interactions and pushes.

i guess i'm thinking that we can maybe begin to try to determine this part. i still really think mawile was out-group, but that doesn't mean the rest of the mafia is as isolated. ofc later on MF's copclaim comes into play, but i think strong favoritism could be an indicator one way or another? for the most part i know that i saw them as about equal, it's just that mawile was the one who'd been discussed

 

[Herbe]

@Herbe, can you tell us more about how your role worked? I'm just curious.

Past tense? Well, the honeypot thing wasn't a lie. It said that my first visitor would get stuck with me, although it did not specify what would happen if multiple people visited me, and I figured it was a fair assumption that the first in order would be the one that got stuck. It could have been randomized, though, but it doesn't really matter now I guess.

So for the person that got stuck with me, they kept their primary win condition, but their secondary win condition would be staying alive with me till the end. So if I got lynched while Mawile was still alive, he wouldn't have instantly lost. My job was to keep my lover alive, and it was unclear what would happen to me if I failed. (I think it was kept intentionally vague, but I don't know the reason. Maybe to scare me more into really trying to save my lover?) But the "you will lose" part was very clear.

Now, post-"lose," at least in the flavor, I'm grumpy, bitter, and prone to lashing out. I don't know if there are power side effects that come with this, but I guess I should expect the unexpected? Either way, I'm just trying to survive as long as possible now.

 

[Keldeo]

If it gets passed to one of us, do we just keep the chain going, or pass it back to you? Just in case.

I think that's something that could be discussed if this way of using the role seems worthwhile to folks. If we keep the chain going, each day we can essentially gain information about one new role / alignment, unless the ability is blocked somehow. If we pass it among people who have already held the power, we can obfuscate the location of important* roles, and also don't run into the issue of not knowing what happens if we swap with a mafia. imo the former is a bit more valuable, although a lot of the people we might want to look into that way aren't too active.

* idk how important cop is, really, because godfather and miller roles might exist

 

[Ottercopter]

But the "you will lose" part was very clear.

Now, post-"lose," at least in the flavor, I'm grumpy, bitter, and prone to lashing out. I don't know if there are power side effects that come with this, but I guess I should expect the unexpected? Either way, I'm just trying to survive as long as possible now.

Third party party

 

[Keldeo]

So for the person that got stuck with me, they kept their primary win condition, but their secondary win condition would be staying alive with me till the end. So if I got lynched while Mawile was still alive, he wouldn't have instantly lost. My job was to keep my lover alive, and it was unclear what would happen to me if I failed. (I think it was kept intentionally vague, but I don't know the reason. Maybe to scare me more into really trying to save my lover?) But the "you will lose" part was very clear.

Thanks! What do you mean by primary and secondary win conditions? Like, if Mawile got to the end along with you and the mafia won, he would double win? Or if you were both alive when all the mafia killing roles were dead, he'd still be able to win?

 

[Keldeo]

Also, how much of the information exchange process from your role that you described at EOD2 was truthful and how much was you trying to save him?

 

[rari_teh]

If it gets passed to one of us, do we just keep the chain going, or pass it back to you? Just in case.

Please keep the chain going! It’s not you, it’s me, good sport!

 

[Herbe]

Thanks! What do you mean by primary and secondary win conditions? Like, if Mawile got to the end along with you and the mafia won, he would double win? Or if you were both alive when all the mafia killing roles were dead, he'd still be able to win?

Not the double win thing, lmao. It was just like a secondary goal; the second scenario is how I interpreted it.

Also, how much of the information exchange process from your role that you described at EOD2 was truthful and how much was you trying to save him?

I'll have to go back and look/report back on that, but I'll admit a fair amount was me trying to save him. But I didn't lie about everything. I'll go back and check :>

 

[rari_teh]

So basically at the end of N0 Bfree told me that I found a catch! And that his alignment was town. Private comm was opened, and we talked about our roles from there.

When you caught Mawile, did Butterfree tell you his alignment or was it him? If the latter, did he tell you the truth?