Gym Leader Choice Pokémafia 2 - Game Thread

[rari_teh]

they attack a target and everyone who visits that target

fwiw this existed in a previous MFia

Zexion was Vivillon, with something of a dual experimental role. I don't remember the proper term for his nightkill power, but it also kills everyone who targets the victim (which, in retrospect, was way broken; there's a reason why this is usually handled as only killing whoever targets the target, and not the target themself)

i agree with negrek that if this role were ever to be reused it’d be locked behind badges. judging from my badgepower, the number of badges would probably not be too low, as mine requires 2 but has a very high chance of failing completely and doing nothing but wasting badges.

@rari_teh Towards the end of the last day phase you expressed suspicions about Jack and Kokorico. How are you feeling about them now?

good question. not good. not good at all. in fact, let’s give this game a bit of movement, shall we. kokorico

 

[rari_teh]

@Hydreigon25 please refrain from reacting to game-relevant posts

 

[rari_teh]

F for the quote’s formatting

 

[Bluwiikoon]

aight, welp, if we're not getting anything from anyone else then I guess I might as well ask that question. Blu, if the mafia have figured out what you can do, can you think of any reason why they might not have chosen to kill you last Night?

Testing the waters I assume! The general consensus yesterday was that we should protect VM, and, well... VM isn't looking very protected right now YesterDay, I did make a very small soft/breadcrumb based on what happened on N0 and I have reasons to assume that they saw that and decided to block me for now

If claiming is more useful than being coy, I can do that for you guys! ^^ What do you think?

 

[rari_teh]

If claiming is more useful than being coy, I can do that for you guys! ^^ What do you think?

don’t

 

[rari_teh]

ftr i think they killed vm because, since he was indeed town, his plan was too solid
if he survived, the cop could’ve inspected him last Night and put his plan into practice toDay

i have a theory as to why and how three people died last Night, but i can’t really say anything without disclosing more info than i’m currently willing to

in my theory, all three were killed by mafia

 

[Ys_]

queen rari

so you trust that negrek didn't kill rnp somehow?

 

[rari_teh]

queen rari

so you trust that negrek didn't kill rnp somehow?

i absolutely do uwu

i mean, i’m not completely sure of negrek’s alignment – far from it –, but i believe she isn’t lying when she’s saying she’s a joat
from flavour, nobody commited suicide, so fragile vigs and lovers should be out of the picture, but most importantly all three deaths seem to have come from the same event.

 

[Negrek]

@JackPK You also expressed suspicion of Bluwiikoon. Have your feelings there changed?

No change. I'm still not confident about my read, but my read is still that he's more likely mafia than town.

This post from toDay twigs me as weird in particular:

I'm conflicted about saying anything, because on one hand I could still be helpful, but on the other I have a sneaking suspicion that the mafia have figured out what I can do Scary scary!

If town, Bluwii here is basically just telling the mafia that he "can do" something valuable and thus implicitly that they should kill him, which is kind of bafflingly counterproductive to me. If I read this with hypothetical-mafia!Bluwii in mind, though, it feels like a pretty straightforward attempt to divert scrutiny by trying to appear valuable, but in an ambiguous way (so as to avoid risking a counterclaim?).

-----

Meanwhile, I'm also struggling very hard to not be suspicious of Ultracool again, with the weak-ass excuses he's given for not making a reasonable attempt to get useful Watcher results for two nights in a row now. Still, d1 he did reveal info that was corroborated by others (including VM, who has flipped town), so he must be a legitimate Watcher, so I'm trying to keep that at the forefront of my mind and tamp down my suspicions.

I'm going to need to go back over your argument from about Bluwiikoon from yesterday, I think. Rereading yesterday I felt confident I knew what Blu's role was based on various hints he'd dropped, and I'm not very good at picking up on those things. I have to assume that the Mafia would have to come to the same conclusion, and in light of that I think Blu's statements today make sense. But I want to see what else you think might be going on here.

I'm not in love with Ultracool's play by a long mile, but I think I want to feel out some other avenues today.

oh, Negrek, I forgot to ask yesterDay. Was your oneshot kill mechanically vanilla?

I'm not 100% on what you mean by that, but I think so. It wasn't "strong" or anything of the like--behaves like a normal nightkill, no additional properties.

tbh I'm suspicious of Negrek.

I know you claimed JOAT but I honestly don't see any other way in which rnp was killed since he didn't have a visiting role. and he didn't have enough badges for his other ability. so it's unlikely that rnp was killed on the rampage

Hmm, I'm not sure what you're accusing me of here? Do you think I'm Mafia and the Mafia simply have two kill roles on their side? I'm a serial killer/some other 3p and I killed RNP while Mafia got the other two somehow? Something else?

they attack a target and everyone who visits that target

fwiw this existed in a previous MFia

Zexion was Vivillon, with something of a dual experimental role. I don't remember the proper term for his nightkill power, but it also kills everyone who targets the victim (which, in retrospect, was way broken; there's a reason why this is usually handled as only killing whoever targets the target, and not the target themself)

i agree with negrek that if this role were ever to be reused it’d be locked behind badges. judging from my badgepower, the number of badges would probably not be too low, as mine requires 2 but has a very high chance of failing completely and doing nothing but wasting badges.

@rari_teh Towards the end of the last day phase you expressed suspicions about Jack and Kokorico. How are you feeling about them now?

good question. not good. not good at all. in fact, let’s give this game a bit of movement, shall we. kokorico

Cool cool. Are you willing to elaborate at all on why?

@Bluwiikoon Just to echo what Isabel asked... Do you have any hunches about the people still in the game? You don't have to reveal your role.

 

[Negrek]

Fuck, sorry, *Ysabel.

 

[rari_teh]

Cool cool. Are you willing to elaborate at all on why?

i’m preparing a longpost since i dropped the vote, but i keep getting distracted and not doing it .-.
it will come out at some point, though.

 

[Ys_]

It's ok xD and yeah, I was thinking some kind of 3p but I'm unwilling to vote regardless since the focus should be on mafia.. Also the flavor didn't necessarily sound to me like 'everyone was killed by the same person' but more like 'the cause of deaths were the same as yesterDay's'. Either way, I trust rari and her and bm definitely trusted you so I vibe.

 

[JackPK]

I'm going to need to go back over your argument from about Bluwiikoon from yesterday, I think. Rereading yesterday I felt confident I knew what Blu's role was based on various hints he'd dropped, and I'm not very good at picking up on those things. I have to assume that the Mafia would have to come to the same conclusion, and in light of that I think Blu's statements today make sense. But I want to see what else you think might be going on here.

I certainly didn't pick up on any hints, so apparently you are better than me at picking up on things?

My full post was #1115 if you want to look back at it, but basically, the gist of my suspicion is that the only thing Blu has done with any substance to it is come up with a role for {mafia}Tofu as she floundered in trying to cover her self-contradictions. Besides that, his posts have basically all felt like attempts to blend in and echo everyone else without actually contributing any reads or trying to be solve-y or anything like that -- which, granted, could be either mafia or just a townie without ideas, which is why I'm not confident about my read.

 

[rari_teh]

the only thing Blu has done with any substance to it is come up with a role for {mafia}Tofu as she floundered in trying to cover her self-contradictions

why do you think he’d do that in the thread instead of scumchat

 

[rari_teh]

my professor who was supposed to be in class went completely MIA and left us hanging, so it’s mafia time ig

happy #tbt y’all

after mulling for hours on end over whether or not i should let the cat out of the bag, i decided it’s probably for the best to make everything i know public. the reasons will hopefully be clear by the end of my next post, which will be the koko casing.

my free power, Fae Trick, is night-delayed vig. every Night i pick one target who will survive the following Day and then expire the following Night.
my badgepower, Misty Terrain (2 badges), cancels all deaths in a Night caused by an action submitted the Night before.

i killed hydrei. i sent in the action N0 and sure as hell they croaked the next Night. that’s why i highly suspected there was no mafia faction before bruh revealed that their role PM mentioned mafia-aligned players – as far as i know, either negrek is lying or there were no mafia kills N1.

on the dawn of D1, i got a message from mf stating that i woke up extremely weary, without the energy to move a single muscle, and because of that i wouldn’t be able to perform any actions during D1 and N1. (this, by the way, should confirm the existence of Day-activated roles.) i thought i was roleblocked, but now i see that’s probably hydreigon’s passive, which was also experienced by jack through flavour on D2.

i sent in a night action on N1 anyway on the offchance that something happened and i was recharged (because i had no real idea what was going on), but (thankfully?) it failed.

i sure targetted someone toNight. i won’t blabber about who it is unless it becomes vital information, i.e. if they become a major wagon. i also won’t be posting tierlists toDay so that mafia doesn’t try anything funny.

originally, due to the lack of deaths on the first Night, i suspected that all kills might be night-delayed. this is the theory i was talking about to keith yesterDay, may he rest in peace. now we know that, if negrek and i are telling the truth – and i sure am –, unless more than one person killed either hydrei or herbe, the first time mafia killed was last Night. three mafia kills, all with the same flavour. i could bet money that this is the work of a cannoneer.

it shouldn’t be needed to say that my role was a large reason for me to keep sussing negrek well into yesterDay, especially considering that it was plausible that herbe was activated alien.

with that out of the way, i guess i can finally bring the longpost on.

 

[haneko]

@Negrek
Haha, that's the downside of having a fancy unicode name, I guess. ^^;

I targeted Ultracool last night. It was going to be UC or Blu, and while I find Blu suspicious, I thought Blu’s suspiciousness could be attributed to bad luck or bad play much more easily. I don't like Ultracool's play for the reasons everyone else has given and I'm fairly sure he's going to get yeeted at some point or another. Sorry, UC.

I went through Blu's ISO and and a few things in there gave me pause for thought. Firstly there is the Tofu thing. That could be attributed to coincidence, but I also noticed that he was trying to discourage people from joining the Tofu wagon, which doesn't look well considering Tofu turned out to be mafia. Blu has also been defending Ultracool on the basis that UC is a watcher, even though whatever UC is doing as watcher hasn't been much of a benefit to town. Essentially, he's looking bad by association with other suspicious folks, as pure as Blu's tone usually is.

I'm still not completely convinced that we should lynch him, so I'd like to see how @Bluwiikoon reacts to these accusations (and the accusations of others) before doing anything. Otherwise I'll probably vote Ultracool today, if I'm not convinced by rari's upcoming post on kokorico. I also agree with Ysabel that we should think about why the players were killed last night, not how.

Finally, I might as well claim my second power. It's called Art Criticism and allows me to act as a coroner. I can see the role and alignment of any dead player who I've targeted with my free action (for those who don't remember, my free action allows player to write a message that will be displayed if they die). It needs 3 badges to activate, so I don't think I'll be using it any time soon.

 

[haneko]

Negrek - It says in my role PM that yes, if I target a player who has already written a message, they can write a new one

 

[qenya]

tbh I'm suspicious of Negrek.

I know you claimed JOAT but I honestly don't see any other way in which rnp was killed since he didn't have a visiting role. and he didn't have enough badges for his other ability. so it's unlikely that rnp was killed on the rampage

I don't really understand this. Is your thesis just that Negrek has a kill every night in addition to the main mafia one? If so, (a) why were there still no deaths on N0 despite two attempts, and (b) why would that make Negrek mafia as opposed to, say, a vig? (And, if you think Blu is actually town, (c) with two shots last night, how come the mafia still didn't kill him?)

Also, even if the deaths were caused by that strange kill-everyone-who-visits-your-target role (which there's no evidence for and seems implausible for the balance reasons others have mentioned), we have no particular reason to think RNP didn't have enough badges for his other ability. Hydreigon's badge(s) would have arrived at the beginning of N2 (alongside Herbe's, as you claimed, right?), and as nobody has acknowledged receiving them, it's at least reasonably likely they went to one of tonight's casualties. Unless Hydrei accidentally gave them to the mafia, I suppose.

Altogether, this post makes no sense whatsoever and frankly I'm kinda side-eyeing you for it.

Testing the waters I assume! The general consensus yesterday was that we should protect VM, and, well... VM isn't looking very protected right now YesterDay, I did make a very small soft/breadcrumb based on what happened on N0 and I have reasons to assume that they saw that and decided to block me for now

I see. Aaaaa this is is so frustrating. I think I'm picking up what you're putting down, I'm just not sure whether to believe it or not. mrgrgr. Your tone is fantastic, I just can't square it with the stuff with Tofu over the first couple of days!

In answer to this:

the only thing Blu has done with any substance to it is come up with a role for {mafia}Tofu as she floundered in trying to cover her self-contradictions

why do you think he’d do that in the thread instead of scumchat

I don't know about Jack, but the explanation that makes most sense to me is that Tofu's role was a complete fabrication: she started on a fakeclaim, realised she'd dug a hole for herself, and couldn't think how to explain it away. Then Blu's behaviour wasn't really trying to help her figure out what her role was, but actually performative: trying to convince the rest of us that there was a perfectly reasonable explanation for what she was saying.

I suppose it's valid to wonder why, if he thought he had a cool fakeclaim idea, he didn't feed it to her privately rather than presenting it himself, but I don't think that's necessarily unusual; the two times I've been ingroup mafia here, I've been taken aback by how quiet scumchat is and how little coordination there is about what gets posted in-thread.

The roleclaims happened as I was writing so will give my thoughts on those in just a moment.

 

[qenya]

my free power, Fae Trick, is night-delayed vig. every Night i pick one target who will survive the following Day and then expire the following Night.
my badgepower, Misty Terrain (2 badges), cancels all deaths in a Night caused by an action submitted the Night before.

i killed hydrei. i sent in the action N0 and sure as hell they croaked the next Night. that’s why i highly suspected there was no mafia faction before bruh revealed that their role PM mentioned mafia-aligned players – as far as i know, either negrek is lying or there were no mafia kills N1.

Hmmmm. This is an extremely believable claim, and explains a lot of the unsolved mysteries re: night actions etc. It also provides a neat explanation for the differences in flavour, which I like. I guess there's no actual mech evidence to back it up, so rest assured I'll be going through your ISO with a fine-toothed comb for contradictions, but I was townreading you anyway so I'm happy to take this as read for now.

If you don't mind my asking - earlier, just up the page (#1326), you said you were unwilling to reveal this much information. What changed to make you more willing to discuss this now? Also, can you think of any reason why your role might have led Hydreigon's death flavour to be "finely charbroiled corpse"?

originally, due to the lack of deaths on the first Night, i suspected that all kills might be night-delayed. this is the theory i was talking about to keith yesterDay, may he rest in peace. now we know that, if negrek and i are telling the truth – and i sure am –, unless more than one person killed either hydrei or herbe, the first time mafia killed was last Night. three mafia kills, all with the same flavour. i could bet money that this is the work of a cannoneer.

Initially I was dubious about a cannoneer explanation, but with the benefit of your claim it makes a great deal more sense. One thing that makes me question it is their targets. I can see why they would have gone after skytini (strongest, most vocal player) and VM (bodyguard on steroids), but RNP makes less sense, especially considering his role. I also think it still doesn't jive with Blu being town; in my previous post I said it didn't make much sense for the mafia to have two nightkills, believe town!Blu had a strong role and yet do nothing to off him, and that just gets even less plausible if they actually had three. (Mr Ultracool looks a little worse, for the same reason.)

 

[qenya]

I targeted Ultracool last night. It was going to be UC or Blu, and while I find Blu suspicious, I thought Blu’s suspiciousness could be attributed to bad luck or bad play much more easily. I don't like Ultracool's play for the reasons everyone else has given and I'm fairly sure he's going to get yeeted at some point or another. Sorry, UC.

Myuma, I'm not quite sure I understand your rationale here, can you explain this to me? If your role is just to allow your target to publish a message after their death, I would have thought you would be trying to target townies with it above all else. If you thought Mr UC was more suspicious than Blu, why would you use your power on him, rather than Blu?

I have a comment to make on your badge power too, but I think I'd like to hear the answer to this question first.