Humanity

[see ya]

I saw this topic start to spring up in the Coughing Cupboard, and figured it would make for a pretty interesting discussion on its own.

So...what case do you have to present for humanity? Are we a great species capable of great things, or a cancerous danger to everything around us?

Me? I lean towards the former. People can do some pretty terrible things, yes, but for every person who abandons or abuses an animal, there's about twenty ASPCA staff members willing to take the animal in and nurse it back to health (or give it a swift, painless death if they can't). For every Hitler, there's millions willing to fight and die to stop him.

Also, I believe that most of the problems we cause are more from apathy and fear than outright malice. Sometimes, people will go along with anything because it's easier than standing up for themselves and saying "no". Alternatively, people just don't care and take whatever they want without thought (the introduction of money and Abrahamic religions with their "Fuck the world! Go ahead and ruin it, it's just going to get destroyed anyway" mentality REALLY haven't helped any)

Besides, we're the only animal that's been able to step outside the rut of day-to-day survival, yet we still have it programmed in our brains. There is NOTHING that tells me that any other species on Earth would do any better than us if they found themselves in the same position. In fact, quite a few would be worse. Think of a world of sentient cats, who already show signs of pointless destruction even though they've barely been separated from the wild. At least humans are social and have a conscience. Or how about bears, who despite being completely wild, will destroy an entire beehive just for a few licks of honey? Hell, we're even nicer than our closest living relatives, who, on a regular basis, chase down a monkey and rip it to shreds with their bare hands, and occasionally cannibalize their own young.

Overall, humans have a LONG way to go. But I believe we have the capacity for greatness. We just have to get our shit together first.

Yes, I'm long-winded, what of it? Now discuss.

 

[Dannichu]

I agree. Humans, on the whole, are a good, decent bunch.

I also agree that apathy is their biggest problem... or at least proximity-based apathy; I'm fairly sure anyone would go into a pond to save a drowning three-year-old, but people don't give money to charities that save people en masse. If it directly affects people, they'll care, but if they don't see it, they have an incredible talent of pretending it doesn't exist.
Which is why fossil fuel overconsumption, overproduction of carbon and the filling up of landfills are such issues; if people can't see the effects their actions have, they don't really care.
I also agree about humans being cool because they care about other species; animals can be parasitic, symbiotic, but very, very rarely altruistic (St. Bernards?). It's instinctive to care about your family and friends, but evolution programs people to not care about anything outside the species, but there are countless examples of people endangering themselves for other species.
Of course, people still mass produce animals so they can be killed and eaten, but, uh, not everyone does.

 

[goldenquagsire]

Humanity immoral? Nope, we're just acting on millions of years of instinct and evolution. Apathy, environmental destruction and xenophobia are all merely byproducts of a time before civilisation or morals.

'course, that's not to say that we shouldn't try and better ourselves. Just because a man is born into a racist family, doesn't mean that he can't strive to be tolerant himself. I suppose we're making small steps towards progressing overall; but there are still incalculable faults of humanity.

 

[see ya]

Humanity immoral? Nope, we're just acting on millions of years of instinct and evolution. Apathy, environmental destruction and xenophobia are all merely byproducts of a time before civilisation or morals.

'course, that's not to say that we shouldn't try and better ourselves. Just because a man is born into a racist family, doesn't mean that he can't strive to be tolerant himself. I suppose we're making small steps towards progressing overall; but there are still incalculable faults of humanity.

Yup, I agree. Of course humanity has a lot of stuff to straighten out. But what I'm talking about are misanthropes. You know, the people who go around saying "HUMANITY IS A VIRUS WHY DO WE EXIST ARG". To say this is to deny that altruism and general human goodness exist, and that's simply not true as it's easily observable.

I'm not arguing, just saying something I missed in the original post. :D

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

I think humans are pretty cool in general but we hear about the bad ones more often on the news.

 

[Music Dragon]

Humans are just... humans, you know? They're not inherently good or bad, they're just... human. I'm not really sure if there's anything more to say. I mean... it's just not a very specific question.

 

[EvilCrazyMonkey]

We can stop many bad things; we also create many bad things.
There are many arguments for each side. In my mind, it's a tie.

 

[see ya]

Wow. Honestly, I was expecting some misanthropy to have popped up by now.

My heart feels warmed. :3

 

[Dinru]

As a whole, we're okay, but I don't see how we can be so cruel at times. We are all intelligent, in equal but different ways. We live in a society where people can foster their main intelligence, and be appreciated for it. If more people recognized this and took advantage of it, that would make the world better. I'm not sure that that's entirely relevant, but that's my case.

 

[ultraviolet]

Sure, humans are a good bunch, we just suffer from ignorance occasionally.

 

[Mirry]

I agree with Music Dragon. I wouldn't say that humans are necessarily "good" or "bad", they just... are what they are.

 

[Philly]

I'm gonna get this out of the way so you can all hate me later. Humans are horrible, jackassed people as a whole. We kill our environment because we 'need' it's resources, we cause animals to go extinct VERY quickly, we created global warming, religion, war, evil, etc. The list goes on for a mile (1.60934 km for those non-american folks). As a race we have very few morals, and those morals can be broken with ease. We slaughter animals to eat when it is just as easy to grow food (and I am an avid meat eater). We strip-mine, we produce greenhouse gases, we do all sorts of HORRIBLE things to our environment. Now you make a counter point, and feel free to start to hate me.

 

[see ya]

*looks at watch* Wow, a misanthropic viewpoint popped up much later than I expected.

 

[Amoeba]

I'm gonna get this out of the way so you can all hate me later. Humans are horrible, jackassed people as a whole. We kill our environment because we 'need' it's resources, we cause animals to go extinct VERY quickly, we created global warming, religion, war, evil, etc. The list goes on for a mile (1.60934 km for those non-american folks). As a race we have very few morals, and those morals can be broken with ease. We slaughter animals to eat when it is just as easy to grow food (and I am an avid meat eater). We strip-mine, we produce greenhouse gases, we do all sorts of HORRIBLE things to our environment. Now you make a counter point, and feel free to start to hate me.

Since you are expecting someone to hate you, I won't grant you that wish. ;)

I will however disagree with your viewpoint.

Humans are animals, and humans act uppon instinct far more than we expect. Evil is an abstract term to an animal, and its definition is subject to change. As others have said before, we may be in an age of technology but our minds are still in the untamed wilderness. We continue to do what was at one point in history necessary for survival, which is hoard and use up resources and expand to new areas. The only problem was, we got so good at it that it has become harmful to the planet.

This is perhaps why many people don't give a thought to the consequences of their actions - because it is simply unnatural to do so. We're the only animals who actually think about how our actions will affect our environment only because we have begun to affect it. Even so, it's just a weak thought, and few of us pay any more heed to the consequences of our actions other than mere speculation.

Once our species reaches its carrying capacity, we may be forced to change. Resources will be scarce and people will begin dying in the masses. When this happens, more and more of us may be forced to look at the world differently, and will be forced to look after it because it will be the the only way to survive. I think at this point humans will undergo natural selection, those who can care for their piece of the world will survive longer, while those that squander all of the resources will be left with nothing - since we will already be at a point where there are so many humans the planet can't accomidate them all.

A future race of post-humans that have learned to think outside their own little bubble could be our future. I think its possible.

It's all about evolution, as I said we are animals and we do what we have evolved to do. It's inexcuseable, but it's nature, and hopefully we may be able to evolve out of it.

 

[Dannichu]

Yes, you have some good points in there, but I'm taking the liberty of dissecting the less-good ones.

we cause animals to go extinct VERY quickly

Uh, no we don't. Humans are only directly responsible for the extinction of a few animal species (and a whole bunch more plants), but what's this "very quickly"? Humans have been around for millions of years; I don't think millions of years is quick in anyone's definition.

we created religion

Like everything, religion isn't inherently evil; it's what people do with it that's wrong. Sure, some people abuse it, but there are also many, many people who use it as a force for good.

war

You're flattering yourself if you think humans invented war. Maybe war with advanced weaponry, but if you put one colony of ants next to another colony of ants, you'll have a massive war on a tiny scale.

evil

Like Amoeba said, evil is an abstract concept. The only reason it can be applied to humans are because we're the only species with an awareness of good and evil; and for there to be evil, there has to be good.

As a race we have very few morals

We're the only species in existence with any morals at all.

and those morals can be broken with ease

Of course they can be broken. I could leave my room right now and kill everyone on my corridor. You could go and murder your family. The thing is, people (with very rare exceptions that in no way representative of everyone)don't.

We slaughter animals to eat when it is just as easy to grow food

More people are becoming vegetarian every day, and awareness of the treatment of animals produced for food and dairy is rising; options for organic and free-range foods exist now that weren't an option ten years ago. We're not there yet, but people are learning.
And yes, many animals kill for food also. There's nothing inherently "evil" about it.

we produce greenhouse gases

Do you have any idea how much methane is produced by cows? Admittedly that's still at least partly humanity's fault, but certain animals produce greenhouse gases on a massive scale.

And Amoeba covered the point about the destruction of the environment very well :3

I think we could be a whole lot worse.

 

[GameFreakerZero]

Humans are horrible, jackassed people as a whole.

That's a lovely way to view yourself.

We kill the environment because we 'need' it's resources,

Hate to break it to you, but we do need resources from the environment. Be it food, water, or something like oil which we need to satisfy our new environment. Yes, we're destroying the environment due to it, but that isn't because we're inherently bad, it's because we didn't know. Hence why people are coming up with ideas on how to fix it.

we created global warming,

Can't really argue against this other than to say, "we're trying to fix it, most of the problem is based in ignorance rather than inherent nastiness."

religion,

This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but that's a debate for another time.

war,

Ants.

evil,

Evil is a concept; how is creating a concept a bad thing especially when you're arguing that we're a species inherently steeped in it?

As a race we have very few morals, and those morals can be broken with ease.

How is having morals at all a bad thing?

We slaughter animals to eat when it is just as easy to grow food (and I am an avid meat eater).

Carnivores who only slaughter other animals say hi.

Most of humanities 'badness' is based purely on stupidity and ignorance, rather than any inherent evil or nastiness in us. As beings who rely on our mental abilities to make it in the wild, we're constantly improving and trying to figure out how to fix what we've done to the environment; if you're going to say we're a species who're inherently evil, don't use evidence that is being fixed or can be excused as our past ignorance.

 

[Music Dragon]

See, here's the thing: humans aren't *really* doing anything wrong. All this talk about protecting the environment, stopping cruel animal treatment, helping those poor people in Darfur... none of these things are "good", because "good" is subjective.

Human beings will - inevitably - choose to do whatever makes them feel the best (or, well, whatever they believe will make them feel the best). Perhaps unsurprisingly, humans are unable to not act in their own interests. Morality is an illusion; there is, in fact, no right and wrong. There's things, and the way we perceive them.

So, iphillip1, you see - all of these things you listed, these moral shortcomings of the human race... What is really wrong with any of this? Can you blame a living creature, human or not, for doing the only thing it is capable of - being selfish?

 

[Zeph]

The list goes on for a mile (1.60934 km for those non-american folks).

((Actually, we tend to use miles more than kilometres.))

I'm not exactly misanthropic, but I do think we (as a species) do some very, very stupid things, but as others have said it's out of ignorance, not direct evil. Otherwise, yeah, I suppose we're fine. It's impossible, really, to condemn a whole race as 'good' or 'evil'.

 

[Harlequin]

blah blah blah humanity sucks blah blah blah am i cool now guys

Jesus Christ, people aren't nearly as bad as everyone likes to make out. Yeah, okay, we've done a lot of stupid shit to the world but we're working on it. It's people who insist on driving huge SUVs and trucks etc and people who don't do simple things like turn lights off when they leave a room etc that make it worse.

Humanity isn't really worse than any other animal and indeed I'd even say we're a damn sight better. I'm not sure why it's "cool" to hate people, I mean sure some people are cunts but the majority of people aren't.

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

We slaughter animals to eat when it is just as easy to grow food (and I am an avid meat eater).

So you eat meat but criticise people who kill animals to eat their meat.
Er.

And yeah, not only ants, but there some species of apes that have been known to form distinct groups, get weapons (sticks and things) and ambush other groups for no goddamn reason. A small war erupts, they kill each other for a bit and then go and chill.