Miscellaneous game mechanics thread

[Zhorken]

The Suggestion Box is seeing a lot of discussion about specific moves and stuff, which is an awesome and pleasant surprise, but is kind of burying things like all the little one-off suggestions for Database features. Hence this new subforum! (Plus some other stuff we want to discuss but I'm super-drained right now so we'll start with this thread.) Go wild!

 

[Zhorken]

Soooo Roar has -6 priority, and Body Slam has 85 power, but those conflict with their descriptions. I'd rather not mess with numbers ripped from the games, so I guess the effects need to change. They're probably not important enough to be worth their own thread though. Does anyone have any opinions on either of these?

 

[surskitty]

Soooo Roar has -6 priority, and Body Slam has 85 power, but those conflict with their descriptions. I'd rather not mess with numbers ripped from the games, so I guess the effects need to change. They're probably not important enough to be worth their own thread though. Does anyone have any opinions on either of these?

Body Slam as currently defined is pretty much just Heavy Slam, so nixing that to work like the games doesn't really remove any options, and makes the move actually viable for a lot of pokemon.

Maybe Roar spooks the opponent enough that they won't use contact moves for the next three actions?

 

[Zhorken]

I LIKE THAT A LOT. idk whether three actions is a reasonable duration or not but I would definitely like to go with that effect.

And yeah I guess Body Slam could always just be a plain old move.

 

[blazheirio889]

I've seen Roar reffed as not-exactly-negative priority, in that it usually disrupts the opponent on the action it's used (iirc it's described as the opponent starting an attack and the Roarer disrupting it?). If we wanna keep the negative priority then we can say it makes the opponent more skittish the next action? Definitely not 3, though, that's far too powerful.

 

[Keldeo]

Some small stuff: Poison Fang has a 50%, not 30%, chance to badly poison, Imprison's summary says "target" where it should (based on the description) say "user", I think, and Sand Stream/Drought/Drizzle/Snow Warning's descriptions still say they last indefinitely.

 

[Zhorken]

I've seen Roar reffed as not-exactly-negative priority, in that it usually disrupts the opponent on the action it's used (iirc it's described as the opponent starting an attack and the Roarer disrupting it?). If we wanna keep the negative priority then we can say it makes the opponent more skittish the next action? Definitely not 3, though, that's far too powerful.

Hmmmm. What about two actions? Three does seem a little long, but only preventing one action basically just makes it a weird, less useful Protect. (Plus I just think it's a really cute idea, and definitely more interesting than some vague "startles the opponent".)

Some small stuff: Poison Fang has a 50%, not 30%, chance to badly poison, Imprison's summary says "target" where it should (based on the description) say "user", I think, and Sand Stream/Drought/Drizzle/Snow Warning's descriptions still say they last indefinitely.

Thanks! I've fixed the first two, though I'm leaving the weather abilities alone for now; iirc weather duration is another thing we wanted to hammer down, and would probably merit its own thread.

 

[Mai]

I've seen Roar reffed as not-exactly-negative priority, in that it usually disrupts the opponent on the action it's used (iirc it's described as the opponent starting an attack and the Roarer disrupting it?). If we wanna keep the negative priority then we can say it makes the opponent more skittish the next action? Definitely not 3, though, that's far too powerful.

I don't see why three is too powerful, considering telekinesis has basically the same effect when used strategically (plus some other nice effects), and roar would be dependent on how scary the user is. (There's disable, too, but it's unclear whether the physically disable interpretation lasts for several actions as well.)

 

[Zhorken]

True! Plus, come to think of it, the negative priority would prevent you from fully taking advantage of your opponent having ordered three contact moves in a row.

 

[blazheirio889]

I do think Roar's effects should do more than just prevent contact moves? Like prevent/reduce effectiveness of things that require resting and concentration, like Chill and Calm Mind. I also liked its general utility in startling the opponent (iirc in one of my battles against Dragon she used it to startle my Ducklett into messing up the attack portion of her Fly), but since that's rather vague, I'd be alright with scrapping that part.

If we go with preventing more than just contact moves, I still think 3 actions is a bit too long. 2 would be alright.

Speaking of Telekinesis, I do find it somewhat overpowered... I wanted to suggest that Pokemon can still float from place to place, albeit slowly and with more energy expended? So they're not like completely useless but still have their movement considerably impeded. (I mean in the games they can still use contact moves on their opponents?)

Also also speaking of Disable, Iii don't remember if there's explicit precedent, but I do recall that the physically disabling option only lasted an action? Ehh idk, we could always tweak that, but thought I'd bring that up.

 

[allitersonance]

The whole point of telekinesis is keeping the pokemon in place, though, so if they can still move that seems to... go against it. If the motion was so slow that practically nothing could ever miss, then it wouldn't be fast enough that the pokemon could reasonably attack anyway, logically - we don't generally have pokemon trying to avoid attacks all the time without a command, but if flavour-wise they're supposed to be living creatures with their own minds, they're probably not gonna stand in place for the opponent to slooowly come at them with a flaming fist. You could make the move struggle be a failsafe telekinesis-breaking mechanism if you want to weaken it though, or something, since that is... possibly how things were before, and also is in line with struggle's effect.

To make roar fair it could be that the target won't use contact moves against the roarer for three actions but the roarer can't use contact moves either, unless the target is immobilised, because the target will always be keeping its distance. It's sort of like the other forced-switching moves in that respect since those also enforce a physical distance between the two.

 

[blazheirio889]

Yeah, that's true *shrug* I guess there isn't much of a way around it. Struggle could be a general trapping-breaking mechanism (like breaking out of Sand Tomb/Wrap/etc.), perhaps?

If we're considering Telekinesis fair, I'd hardly consider that version of Roar to be very fair. Plus if the Roarer is lunging at the opponent, I doubt it could keep its distance while still executing its action.

 

[Superbird]

The current ruling on critical hits is to add the attack's base power again on top of all the other calculations.

Is this going to change with the advent of Gen 6 and crits only doing 1.5x damage now?

 

[Zhorken]

Oh, for the record, blazheirio updated the weather moves to nine actions at some point, so I went and updated the weather abilities to match.

 

[Superbird]

The current ruling on critical hits is to add the attack's base power again on top of all the other calculations.

Is this going to change with the advent of Gen 6 and crits only doing 1.5x damage now?

Just going to restate this question, because it hasn't been addressed yet. It doesn't look like there's any new ruling in the Damage/Energy guide, is there?

 

[blazheirio889]

Just going to restate this question, because it hasn't been addressed yet. It doesn't look like there's any new ruling in the Damage/Energy guide, is there?

Ah, sorry for missing your question. Uhhh the current crit mechanics are actually in the first post of the old A&A Guide (which is an odd place, but), and I think we're going to change it sometime soon? Yeah. It'll be posted in a more obvious/fitting place when we get around to it.

 

[Crazy Linoone]

Volt Absorb: Unlike most Pokémon, those with this ability can actually harness the electrical energy in attacks made against them and use it to fuel their own strikes. Whenever struck by an opponent's Electric attack, this Pokémon will automatically recapture the energy used to generate it, negating all damage and additional effects from the attack and replenishing their own energy by 1% for each 10 points of base power that the attack had, or 1% for non-damaging attacks.

If there is a source of free electricity available on the battlefield, a Pokémon with this ability may be commanded to spend an action absorbing electricity from this power source, resulting in a 5% energy gain.

(Bolded for emphasis).

It seems like there's no point to this mechanic at all, since you'll gain 10% energy from Chilling.

I'd be down for changing all the Volt Absorb mechanics to be the same as the Water Absorb ability? (AKA can restore health instead of energy when struck by attacks)

 

[blazheirio889]

I swear there are other things that give 5% energy in exchange for an action, though I can't be bothered to think of them now. I think the point of that was you have options for when Chills are limited?

But yeah, I think it makes more sense for Volt and Water absorb to operate by the same mechanics.

 

[Keldeo]

Oblivious now prevents Taunt as well as infatuation, but the database only has its old effect. Its gen 6 description confirms this ("Keeps the Pokémon from being infatuated or falling for taunts.")

edit @ below: Whoops, ignore this then.

 

[Music Dragon]

Oblivious now prevents Taunt as well as infatuation, but the database only has its old effect. Its gen 6 description confirms this ("Keeps the Pokémon from being infatuated or falling for taunts.")

Moves and abilities whose effects changed in X/Y have not been updated yet. For the time being, refs are free to stick to what the database says, or use their best judgement to ref them based on their Gen VI effects. If you're not sure how your ref will handle it, just ask them. (Plain old numbers, like power and accuracy, have been updated, however.)