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Objection! (Ace Attorney fan-club)
- Thread starter Frosty~
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Crazy Linoone
broke ASB
D: ME WANTS.
D: £40?! That's, like, uh.... *calculates* a lot of money!
But it is a massive artbook... STILL WANTS.
Not Meowth
Cat, are you drilling?
Not Meowth
Cat, are you drilling?
Crazy Linoone
broke ASB
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- she/her
So I'm replaying Justice for All. I finished 2-3 yesterday.
I actually came to the conclusion that it would be one of the better cases in the series if only it didn't happen in that silly circus. It has the potential to be freaking tragic; it's just the inclusion of clowns, ventriloquists, monkeys, fabulous magicians and Regina's disturbingness that makes it so annoying. :/
I didn't like 2-2 much the first time I played it, mostly because Ini really annoyed me, though I enjoyed it more on the replay. Perhaps it was just that the first time I played it I was completely "whut" throughout the entire case; all the guesses I made about what happened as I was playing it turned out to be wrong (well, except for suspecting Ini and Morgan). I tend to prefer the cases where I actually feel like I'm figuring it out, which was the case in 2-3; may be why I don't dislike that case quite as much as many do.
On another note, I absolutely love every time that Mia quotes Diego at Phoenix. It makes me giddy.
I actually came to the conclusion that it would be one of the better cases in the series if only it didn't happen in that silly circus. It has the potential to be freaking tragic; it's just the inclusion of clowns, ventriloquists, monkeys, fabulous magicians and Regina's disturbingness that makes it so annoying. :/
I didn't like 2-2 much the first time I played it, mostly because Ini really annoyed me, though I enjoyed it more on the replay. Perhaps it was just that the first time I played it I was completely "whut" throughout the entire case; all the guesses I made about what happened as I was playing it turned out to be wrong (well, except for suspecting Ini and Morgan). I tend to prefer the cases where I actually feel like I'm figuring it out, which was the case in 2-3; may be why I don't dislike that case quite as much as many do.
On another note, I absolutely love every time that Mia quotes Diego at Phoenix. It makes me giddy.
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Phoenixsong
beep beep coming through
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Ayame
Weeping Willow Pines.
I absolutely love what I have played of this series (which is part of the first game, I got it for my birthday and I can't find my DS after getting far in the third trial), because it's so quirky. I love most of the characters and their designs. I shouldn't join this club because I've played so little and I hate spoilers, but after I play the games, I'll totally join.
Dannichu
Tragically unbeyachted.
Hurr, I just found a god-knows-how-long essay w/discussion about Mia's boobs. I have to say I agree with them, to be honest. It's such a shame.
Not Meowth
Cat, are you drilling?
That makes three of us :D
Every time I replay PW cases I keep getting stuck. In places I don't remember ever getting stuck on first time around.
I suck =s
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Hmm. I read that blog entry Dannichu linked to, and...
...I consider myself a feminist, but I swear, some of them speak of men as though they're some sort of alien species out to enslave us for sex. o_O Seriously. The train of thought in Mia is just, "Okay, so here's this female character who kicks ass, is much smarter than Phoenix, saves the day more often than not, and is generally the most positively portrayed character in the entire series. Oh, and she's hot, too." Her breasts are an obvious afterthought to her personality, intelligence, strength of character and general badassery; yes, yes, they're big, but to consider that to somehow render everything else that there is to her void is frankly much more objectifying than the fact that they are.
[/Overly Long Favorite Character-Defending Rant™]
*deep breath*
...then again, visual fanservice in general has never really pushed my feminist buttons that much, compared to the portrayal of women as shallow, superficial, dumb, ditzy, useless or just getting in the way, overly sensitive, existing only as love interests for the male heroes, et cetera. :/ I tend to find it considerably more amusing than offensive, just another thing on the "Entertainment Is Unrealistic" list, unless coupled with the actual character being portrayed in a degrading manner. So meh. Maybe I just don't see it. :/
...anyway! I finished Trials and Tribulations and my seven-page-long summary of 3-5 from Godot's point of view. It kind of annoys me how hard it is to tell precisely what he knows and doesn't know at times, since he acts surprised at a bunch of things that he plainly must have known (for instance, he must be aware, during the entire final trial, of the fact that
). However, there are other very fun parts where he is giving Phoenix some much more subtle hints, and when his responses to questions cleverly avoid telling any lies. :3
So well, now I'm playing Apollo Justice, and hoping I will enjoy the final case more on the replay. I did enjoy the first case more (I think it's definitely my favorite first case of the series), but now I'm in the second case, which I'm pretty sure is my absolute least favorite case of the entire series, and so far it's not a lot less irritating than it was. :<
...I think my brain just exploded. Good God, that's way overthinking it. Are they trying to feel degraded by everything they see or something? o_O I mean, what sort of logic is that? It's... almost like a conspiracy theory. Just what do they think goes on in the male brain when it sees Mia Fey? "Oh no, it's a woman who kicks ass! My male superiority is so violated! Oh, but she has big boobs! Ah! Now I can look at her and think about sex! Ha! Take that, you evil strong woman! I feel so much better now!"One of the comments said:
...I consider myself a feminist, but I swear, some of them speak of men as though they're some sort of alien species out to enslave us for sex. o_O Seriously. The train of thought in Mia is just, "Okay, so here's this female character who kicks ass, is much smarter than Phoenix, saves the day more often than not, and is generally the most positively portrayed character in the entire series. Oh, and she's hot, too." Her breasts are an obvious afterthought to her personality, intelligence, strength of character and general badassery; yes, yes, they're big, but to consider that to somehow render everything else that there is to her void is frankly much more objectifying than the fact that they are.
[/Overly Long Favorite Character-Defending Rant™]
*deep breath*
...then again, visual fanservice in general has never really pushed my feminist buttons that much, compared to the portrayal of women as shallow, superficial, dumb, ditzy, useless or just getting in the way, overly sensitive, existing only as love interests for the male heroes, et cetera. :/ I tend to find it considerably more amusing than offensive, just another thing on the "Entertainment Is Unrealistic" list, unless coupled with the actual character being portrayed in a degrading manner. So meh. Maybe I just don't see it. :/
...anyway! I finished Trials and Tribulations and my seven-page-long summary of 3-5 from Godot's point of view. It kind of annoys me how hard it is to tell precisely what he knows and doesn't know at times, since he acts surprised at a bunch of things that he plainly must have known (for instance, he must be aware, during the entire final trial, of the fact that
the "Iris" on the witness stand is really Dahlia, since seeing as he cleaned up the crime scene and was working with the real Iris, he would immediately be able to tell that when "Iris" comes to see him privately to "confess" that she was the one who cleaned up the crime scene, it can't be the real her; still more obviously, he is the one to give Phoenix a hint about Larry's drawing being upside-down, and yet acts surprised when Phoenix does turn it the right way up
So well, now I'm playing Apollo Justice, and hoping I will enjoy the final case more on the replay. I did enjoy the first case more (I think it's definitely my favorite first case of the series), but now I'm in the second case, which I'm pretty sure is my absolute least favorite case of the entire series, and so far it's not a lot less irritating than it was. :<
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Dannichu
Tragically unbeyachted.
Really? It annoys me no end when they take a character in a game (especially one with a non-stereotypical personality) and objectify her. Plus it does create a flaw with the personality - presumeably the character actively chose to wear whatever it is they're wearing, and, as would be the same if an actual person wandered around wearing the stuff most girls in games wear, they're impossible to take seriously.
Admittedly, most of the stuff people in games wear is a little off-the-wall, but my point is that the character designers could leave their characters with a shred of dignity.
But in general, PW is awesome in terms of gender roles. There's a roughly even m/f split - not just in actual numbers, but there's a decent split between male and female main and minor characters, murderers and murder victims, annoying and likable characters and so on. And in the form of Mia, Fran, Ema and Lana, we actually get female professonals, which almost never happens.
And, uh, Maggey, I guess, though her giving up a job with the police force to become a waitress wasn't entirely her fault >>
Admittedly, most of the stuff people in games wear is a little off-the-wall, but my point is that the character designers could leave their characters with a shred of dignity.
But in general, PW is awesome in terms of gender roles. There's a roughly even m/f split - not just in actual numbers, but there's a decent split between male and female main and minor characters, murderers and murder victims, annoying and likable characters and so on. And in the form of Mia, Fran, Ema and Lana, we actually get female professonals, which almost never happens.
And, uh, Maggey, I guess, though her giving up a job with the police force to become a waitress wasn't entirely her fault >>
I noticed Godot's surprise at things he should already know during my second playthrough, but it's odd that he's a such a good actor (either that or the translation/writing team didn't think it through, but they're normally pretty thorough) but freaks out so much at things like the ketchup stain in case 2 (3? It's been too long.).
I know his life isn't potentially on the line on case 2/3 and the "Maya" on the lighthouse-thingy is a rather large strike against him, but it struck me as odd.
I know his life isn't potentially on the line on case 2/3 and the "Maya" on the lighthouse-thingy is a rather large strike against him, but it struck me as odd.
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Well, as I said, fanservice tends just to fall under "Entertainment Is Unrealistic" in my brain - rather than trying to fit the ridiculous choice of clothing into the characters' personalities, which would have some very awkward implications, it gets stuffed in there pretty much as part of the art style more than anything actually having to do with the character. So in my head it's filed somewhere around the same place as Larry's sawtooth-mouth face, Luke Atmey's nose, Daryan's hair and Gant's Super Saiyan freakout. Obviously it would be nice if the style didn't include going to great lengths to show cleavage on nearly every woman in the game, but I'd consider that problem to be separate from the individual characters drawn in this style.Dannichu said:
...Well, and I just like Mia too much to watch people dismiss her general awesomeness just because she has doomboobs without objection. D: I mean, if she didn't have them, nobody would hesitate to point to her as a feminist icon! She's a woman who is completely independent (because she herself made her own decision to leave Kurain), rises to fame and respectability as a lawyer even after the disaster that was her first case, starts running her own law offices while independently investigating the crimes of an extremely influential and dangerous man, the game's male protagonist is her subordinate, she is murdered specifically because the male villain feels threatened by her presence, and after her death she continues to kick ass by figuring out all of Phoenix's cases before he does and more often than not needing to give him a push in the right direction before he figures it out. Hell yeah. How could her breast size ever "put her in her place" when she's several thousand miles from "her place"? She couldn't be an object if she tried.
But yes, I very much agree on the general treatment of the female characters in the games, ignoring all complaints about how they're drawn. Women in high positions for the win!
That reminds me of something that struck me as odd when replaying T&T - I thought that during the credits of JFA, Maggey said she was going to quit the police force, but then in 3-3 I think she said something about being fired. o.o Did I miss something?Dannichu said:
Dannichu said:
Well, after giving it some thought, I think the most probable explanation is that he's disguising his dismay at the fact Phoenix is figuring things out so fast as surprise at the actual revelations. It could be said that he is essentially challenging Phoenix in much of the trial, trying to prove him a lousy lawyer who can't figure anything out without Mia coming to his rescue, while still wanting him to expose Dahlia (and even later, I get the feeling he half-wants Phoenix to figure him out as well). Hence all the odd but genuine-looking swings between giving Phoenix hints and furiously challenging his explanations.
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