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Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia

@Mist1422, what changed your mind on Hydreigon between yesterDay and toDay?
someone mentioning that the ysabel thing which I derpcleared them for was actually a 2R1B based thing
If we want to go with the Potentially Boring Option we could always yeet Hydre and use my role to resolve the VM/kyeugh situation
Collecting a loose end I forgot to - Mist, can you elaborate on whether you think this could still help given Jack's worlds laid out in #1316?
given the nature of my action it's probably more useful to just resolve normally and do what I can with mine
 
@kokorico, sorry if I missed it among speculation, but can you summarize for me what your current take is on the most likely mechanical situation and the best yeet today?
My current take on the mech situation is basically the same as yesterday, but I'll happily recap.

On VM: I don't see how he can possibly be telling the truth, given that he claims to be able to use multiple night actions at once (something everyone else has been told is explicitly impossible), is happily contradicting literally everyone to have offered any mech information so far, and is abjectly refusing to help solve anything. I know his "greencheck" on me is correct, but I have

On kyeugh: If she's lying, she must have been planning it from the very beginning of the game (which I suppose might line up with Seshas' bizarre push on me, but still lacks any obvious motive). If she's town, then there's something else weird going on with at least one mechanic out of {sanities, redirectors, millers}.

On the best yeet target: I totally understand the argument for wanting to resolve me in order to clear people, and I don't think yeeting me would be a terrible move for town; it would clear up a lot of the mech uncertainty, and we can certainly afford a single mislynch given that there was no N0 kill and we got mafia on D1. That's why I haven't really been pushing back against my wagon at all. But even so, I'm a mite peeved that there is someone who's blatantly and obviously lying and we're still considering going for an infolynch instead. Feels like almost exactly the mistake town made in TVT, which y'all vowed never to repeat.

I haven't read the rest of your wall-of-text yet, but I'll have a look asap and get back to you.
 
On VM: I don't see how he can possibly be telling the truth, given that he claims to be able to use multiple night actions at once (something everyone else has been told is explicitly impossible), is happily contradicting literally everyone to have offered any mech information so far, and is abjectly refusing to help solve anything. I know his "greencheck" on me is correct, but I have
Oops, hit post too soon.

I know his "greencheck" on me is correct, but I have my doubts about his "redcheck" on raritini (as I've said previously), so that doesn't really seem to fit with any sanity of cop, unless the one that gets totally random results (which is worse than useless). I also agree with what RNP said earlier, that his cast-iron insistence on not being an insane cop is indicative that he's not a cop at all.
 
my thoughts basically haven't changed from what I've said earlier? koko is the yeet that gets us the most guaranteed info, vm is probably fakeclaiming mafia but possibly insane cop, hydreigon probably w/w with vm

if koko flips red -> vig should kill hydreigon; doctor should heal kyeugh; kyeugh should witness vm; this gives us the best information to judge whether vm is mafia or insane cop for purposes of the next day's yeet

if koko flips green -> vig should kill tbh; doctor should heal vm; vm should inspect kyeugh; this gives us the best information to judge whether kyeugh is mafia or insane witness for purposes of the next day's yeet

if vm flips red -> vig should kill koko; doctor should kill kyeugh; koko's flip should allow us to judge kyeugh's sanity

if vm flips green -> no immediate useful information, but then IF vig kills tbh, this should in theory determine kyeugh's sanity, but that's two dead villagers where every other scenario gets us only one dead villager
My thoughts on this are, hrmmm. I feel like we should be more reluctant to take kyeugh at her word that she's a witness at all? She was hard-defending Seshas yesterday, and her only info is an unconfirmed redcheck that conveniently explains why she was defending Seshas yesterday (I don't think she softed this claim, other than by really wanting to lynch koko over Seshas?). Even if koko did flip mafia, that doesn't really prove kyeugh's role - there would still be the possibility that the mafia yesterday would simply rather lose koko than Seshas, and kyeugh today hoped to reestablish ironclad towncred by getting koko lynched (risky move, but she was obviously very aware at the beginning of today that having defended Seshas the way she did was a very bad look).

I think VM pretty much must be lying; even if he does flip green, I'd be more inclined to assume he's some kind of town-flipping outgroup mafia (or alien) than an actual cop, sane or insane.

Given these things, I'm not really on board with this elaborate logic on trying to determine the cops' sanities; I'm not entirely convinced either of them is actually a cop at all.

VM and Hydreigon do seem linked, as well as maybe VM and koko, so if VM flips red, Hydreigon and koko are probably who we should be looking at next. If VM flips green, he's probably not ingroup mafia and his information may not mean anything at all? But then he and Hydreigon at least are probably not in cahoots.

If we executed koko today, and he flipped green, I don't think this would tell us VM is a genuine sane cop, just to side-eye kyeugh more. If he flipped red, better for kyeugh but still not really proof, and VM's still an insane cop. I don't really think there's a world in which we want to kill tbh^2.
 
btw, i think that the woke take here is that me, tbh², vm, and probably dm/rnp/jack are town
@kyeugh When you say you learn the alignment of your target's killer if they die, and like mafia Y kills your target X, do you know if that would be like "X's killer was mafia" or "Y is mafia"?
hmmm, i’m not sure. but given how clear it was whose alignment i received n0, i also want to say it would be clear in this case too.
 
kyeugh: n0 witness TBH -> witness koko mafia; n1 witness Jack -> blocked
this checks out for me. btw i’ve been somewhat considering the possibility that, since no one has claimed roleblocker yet, i was blocked by scum who suspected i might be cop because of my push on koko yesterDay. which would suggest koko is scum. it’s possible i was just blocked my some unclaimed town guy because they thought i looked bad after arguing against what ended up being a scum flip, but. just a thought i had.

i can vibe with a vm yeet, although i’m indeed not really sure what i’m going to take away from it if he flips green. i guess i’ll just assume he was an insane cop after all and gun for koko again? idk. if he flips green i’m pretty sure he wasn’t lying about being a cop. however i’m increasingly bothered by the simultaneous oneshot/regular night actions and i don’t think i can look past it... i also kind of don’t believe that he really took mawile at his word when essentially asking him “am i insane.” also i feel like he didn’t really act like he had a green check on koko yesterDay?

i still believe koko is pretty likely to be scum independent of vm’s alignment, even if i think eir tone is decent.
 
ok i was going to longpost tonight but a lot of things happened and i couldn’t; now i’m too tired to think straight. i’ll try to log in much earlier and do it in the early afternoon tbh.

bottom line is: i caught up to the thread with mewt and we talked at lengths about the current situation. after much discussion, i managed to convince her that the best lynch toDay is vipera magnifica. tomorrow’s longpost will explain it all, but i believe it’s important to lay this vote now.

- rari
i am not rari underscore teh and i don't have her longposting powers, but the gist of this conversation was that i'd been really caught up in koko being the 'safe' lynch out of all this because e was the overlapping check/could 'resolve' this situation, and that i was really fucking terrified of vm flipping green and everyone being like ?_? because i was scared of getting nothing out of it and still being as lost as we were before. i was also reading his posting as desperate!town but rari was not, so i'm coming out of that toneread a bit (which was the only thing that was giving me pause).

most of our conversation last night was basically solidifying that the numerous holes in his claim don't add up, and *not* in a role madnessy way - most glaringly, the oneshot thing that i kept forgetting about, but that makes no sense and reading back i think it's moderately/definitely likely to be the case that he messed up his fakeclaim and couldn't back out of it (consistent with the tunneled way he went on about this all, incl. the sanity talk). i also really don't know how he could have ever targeted us n1 when both storm and hmf were affected by the bus driving; it wasn't an action redirector that hit those two, it was a bus driver swap.

i also overestimated how big of a gambit it would be for mafia to claim what he did, because i was caught up on the weirdness of his checks. this is sort of an aside, i think my main point is the stuff above, but basically i was thinking that this was like /something mafia never does/ when that isn't the case really at all; mafia-claiming-cop could easily claim koko green when the consensus was that the wagons were w/v d1, and not realize that another cop could have also checked em and could effectively counterclaim on the result. i'm also reading EoD1 now and i agree with skylar that he didn't really act as if he had a greencheck on koko yesterDay; he never mentioned em and afaict the only thing i can maybe finagle into that is
I do think it's a little weird that Seshas has a virtually uncontested wagon right now, but something was definitely making me suspicious of their posts when I was reading earlier and the reasons other people have mentioned seem like a reasonable cause for suspicion. I'm keeping my vote on her for now because I don't really see any alternative right now? Still, I am open to the idea of a third wagon
-m
 
Vote History:
JackPK voted Hydreigon25 (#933)
tbh^2 voted Hydreigon25 (#941)
Despicable Meme voted Hydreigon25 (#970)
kyeugh voted Hydreigon25 (#979)
RedneckPhoenix voted Hydreigon25 (#981)
Vipera Magnifica voted tbh^2 (#999)
Mist1422 voted tbh^2 (#1004)
JackPK voted tbh^2 (#1006)
JackPK voted Hydreigon25 (#1022)
kyeugh voted Vipera Magnifica (#1025)
Mist1422 voted nobody (#1027)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1036)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1038)
JackPK voted nobody (#1041)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1071)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1076)
JackPK voted kokorico (#1102)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1103)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1104)
kokorico voted Vipera Magnifica (#1119)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1121)
Vipera Magnifica voted kyeugh (#1125)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1129)
kyeugh voted Vipera Magnifica (#1132)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1135)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1190)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1210)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1246)
tbh^2 voted kokorico (#1250)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1253)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1331)
Butterfree voted Vipera Magnifica (#1346)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1356)
Keldeo voted Vipera Magnifica (#1358)

Active Votes (+ post numbers):
JackPK voted kokorico (#1102)
kokorico voted Vipera Magnifica (#1119)
Vipera Magnifica voted kyeugh (#1125)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1135)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1246)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1253)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1331)
Butterfree voted Vipera Magnifica (#1346)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1356)
Keldeo voted Vipera Magnifica (#1358)

Vote Count:
Vipera Magnifica (6): kokorico (#1119), Mist1422 (#1135), RedneckPhoenix (#1253), Butterfree (#1346), tbh^2 (#1356), Keldeo (#1358)
kokorico (3): JackPK (#1102), kyeugh (#1246), Despicable Meme (#1331)
kyeugh (1): Vipera Magnifica (#1125)
(Nonvoters: storm, IndigoEmmy, Trebek, Seshas, Hydreigon25)

EoD is in approximately 5 hours.
 
However, I think that except in the very specific and probably verifiable case of (1) some unfathomable weirdness having happened night 0 and (2) someone having deflected results from Hydreigon to tbh or redirected Storm to tbh on night 1, VM and storm can't be v/v due to (1) VM detecting no motion around DM night 0, when storm claimed to target DM (and presumably both got their username in the feedback) and (2) VM getting his result on tbh night 1 and storm getting their result shifted from Hydreigon to tbh that night. Same with VM and RNP for the reason in (1).
Good point! I hadn't considered those interactions since I was focused on the two claimed inforoles and their claimed targets, and I wasn't thinking beyond that bubble. I've been mulling this for the past few hours and I think this is enough to convince me that VM is just as informative a yeet as koko, so I'll go ahead and switch my vote.

Vipera Magnifica

(but for what it's worth, my thoughts are still that VM/Hydreigon are probably scum and koko is probably either scum or a convenient pawn that scum is using)

(Nonvoters: storm, IndigoEmmy, Trebek, Seshas, Hydreigon25)
@storm What are your thoughts on everything so far?

@IndigoEmmy Just checking in, are you reading this game at all?

Trebek and Seshas are dead, no point pinging them

@Hydreigon25 You've seemed very confident in VM as town so far; are you still feeling that way? If so, who do you think should be yeeted instead? I want to hear your argument on why I should change my vote.
 
@Hydreigon25 You've seemed very confident in VM as town so far; are you still feeling that way? If so, who do you think should be yeeted instead? I want to hear your argument on why I should change my vote.

i just think we should have waited until D3 for more information about VM but it's fine otherwise
 
Vote History:
JackPK voted Hydreigon25 (#933)
tbh^2 voted Hydreigon25 (#941)
Despicable Meme voted Hydreigon25 (#970)
kyeugh voted Hydreigon25 (#979)
RedneckPhoenix voted Hydreigon25 (#981)
Vipera Magnifica voted tbh^2 (#999)
Mist1422 voted tbh^2 (#1004)
JackPK voted tbh^2 (#1006)
JackPK voted Hydreigon25 (#1022)
kyeugh voted Vipera Magnifica (#1025)
Mist1422 voted nobody (#1027)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1036)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1038)
JackPK voted nobody (#1041)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1071)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1076)
JackPK voted kokorico (#1102)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1103)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1104)
kokorico voted Vipera Magnifica (#1119)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1121)
Vipera Magnifica voted kyeugh (#1125)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1129)
kyeugh voted Vipera Magnifica (#1132)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1135)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1190)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1210)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1246)
tbh^2 voted kokorico (#1250)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1253)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1331)
Butterfree voted Vipera Magnifica (#1346)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1356)
Keldeo voted Vipera Magnifica (#1358)
JackPK voted Vipera Magnifica (#1372)
Hydreigon25 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1375)

Active Votes (+ post numbers):
kokorico voted Vipera Magnifica (#1119)
Vipera Magnifica voted kyeugh (#1125)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1135)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1246)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1253)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1331)
Butterfree voted Vipera Magnifica (#1346)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1356)
Keldeo voted Vipera Magnifica (#1358)
JackPK voted Vipera Magnifica (#1372)
Hydreigon25 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1375)

Vote Count:
Vipera Magnifica (8): kokorico (#1119), Mist1422 (#1135), RedneckPhoenix (#1253), Butterfree (#1346), tbh^2 (#1356), Keldeo (#1358), JackPK (#1372), Hydreigon25 (#1375)
kokorico (2): kyeugh (#1246), Despicable Meme (#1331)
kyeugh (1): Vipera Magnifica (#1125)
(Nonvoters: storm, IndigoEmmy, Trebek, Seshas)
 
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